Don't know if this is a unique situation, but does anyone have a suggestion for a layout boat that you could use without a tender. I'm a single hunter with dog that has a place on Lake Michigan off of Manistee. I would like to paddle out a few hundred yards on a calm morning and give it a go. Bad idea? Any suggestions for a boat that is managable for 1 man, low profile, but still has some paddle-ability. thanks in advance.
Layout suggestions
- Thread starter phillips
- Start date
One question would be how deep of water you will be in & how rough can it get? I use a 9' 4 Rivers boat that paddles OK (poles great) in similar situation but I am in ankle to knee deep water. If it gets to rough, I can walk the boat back. Some guys also hunt from ocean kayaks in similar situations.
Maybe a small low profile sneak boat like a BBSB or Devlin Mallard/Broadbill might be a better, safer option if you are in a little deeper water.
Maybe a small low profile sneak boat like a BBSB or Devlin Mallard/Broadbill might be a better, safer option if you are in a little deeper water.
Kristan
Well-known member
Quick Story:
A Hunter on this website here recently was in a situation he was hunting the Wabash river and was swamped but he was rescued...Again he had a boat like the MOMARSH boats which was adequate for the situation he was hunting...And he was by himself...He probably had years of waterfowl experience under his belt...But the fact is the situation happened on smaller body of water unlike Lake Michigan...If he would have been in that situation he probably would tell you himself he would not have made it....
I am currently building a broadbill and I am sure a lot of members on this sight would agree that it is a fairly stable boat in big waters...But I would not recommend with decoys, yourself, and a gun hunting in big, frigid waters by yourself. The prime factor is to have a boat which is stable to the water condition you are hunting. In large waters you will need to have a deck on it with a small or minimal opening...100 yards or so off shore is a long swim no matter what condition you are in and two the waters of Lake Michigan is hypothermia's dream situation....
I kayaked this summer from the Michigan shore to South Manitou Island, roughly 8 miles offshore...The kayak I own and built is a Pgymy Coho...It is very stable and can handle extreme conditions. The lake that day was still with calm, rolling waves of 3 to 4 foot with the water temperture about 56 degrees 100 yards off shore...I did roll a few times just to cool off from the 75 degree sun beating down on me...But you can not imagine the few short seconds under water how frigid that condition was, I didn't see my manhood for hours later...I could not image that same situation when the air temperature is 40 degrees or below with wind...Granted this boat is narrow and is able to roll by design...
We all do some crazy things when it comes to our passions...I know I have...I would hate to see another duck hunter end belly up due to being in a situation that they didn't have at least the minimum proper requirements of a boat in that situation...Even when properly fitted some times it is just not worth it...
The prime idea would be to hunt with a boat which in this case you were swamped could get you back to shore...If your diver hunting they will come in to most decoy setups as long as you are still and resemble something that would be as a natural setting in the water, such as a rock. No matter how calm the water is...There are exceptions to some birds but I still think you should invest some time and or money in a decked boat where at least the width of the boat is a 3rd as wide or more the total length of the boat for stability....And two since you are hunting alone you might think about purchasing a dry suit just in case shit does happen, there expensive but $600 is worth a lifetime...The choice I would recommend to purchase and not build would be a Barnegat Bay Style Sneakbox with a displacement instead of planing hull...There are a handful of people on this sight whom build them in the price ranges of $1200 to $3000 and you would be getting a satifying product for years to come...Of course if you are like me short of funds you might want to invest in the Broadbill or simliar boat to build yourself...It isn't rocket science to build but it will take 60 or so hours of your time over3 to 4 month period...I have estimated cost of around $1200 to build this boat to what I am wanting with the grade of wood and accessories on the boat. I have viewed guys build the same boat for $600 with change...Ask Eric Patterson on this website about this...He will have a lot of insight as well as others....
Good luck with your choices...
A Hunter on this website here recently was in a situation he was hunting the Wabash river and was swamped but he was rescued...Again he had a boat like the MOMARSH boats which was adequate for the situation he was hunting...And he was by himself...He probably had years of waterfowl experience under his belt...But the fact is the situation happened on smaller body of water unlike Lake Michigan...If he would have been in that situation he probably would tell you himself he would not have made it....
I am currently building a broadbill and I am sure a lot of members on this sight would agree that it is a fairly stable boat in big waters...But I would not recommend with decoys, yourself, and a gun hunting in big, frigid waters by yourself. The prime factor is to have a boat which is stable to the water condition you are hunting. In large waters you will need to have a deck on it with a small or minimal opening...100 yards or so off shore is a long swim no matter what condition you are in and two the waters of Lake Michigan is hypothermia's dream situation....
I kayaked this summer from the Michigan shore to South Manitou Island, roughly 8 miles offshore...The kayak I own and built is a Pgymy Coho...It is very stable and can handle extreme conditions. The lake that day was still with calm, rolling waves of 3 to 4 foot with the water temperture about 56 degrees 100 yards off shore...I did roll a few times just to cool off from the 75 degree sun beating down on me...But you can not imagine the few short seconds under water how frigid that condition was, I didn't see my manhood for hours later...I could not image that same situation when the air temperature is 40 degrees or below with wind...Granted this boat is narrow and is able to roll by design...
We all do some crazy things when it comes to our passions...I know I have...I would hate to see another duck hunter end belly up due to being in a situation that they didn't have at least the minimum proper requirements of a boat in that situation...Even when properly fitted some times it is just not worth it...
The prime idea would be to hunt with a boat which in this case you were swamped could get you back to shore...If your diver hunting they will come in to most decoy setups as long as you are still and resemble something that would be as a natural setting in the water, such as a rock. No matter how calm the water is...There are exceptions to some birds but I still think you should invest some time and or money in a decked boat where at least the width of the boat is a 3rd as wide or more the total length of the boat for stability....And two since you are hunting alone you might think about purchasing a dry suit just in case shit does happen, there expensive but $600 is worth a lifetime...The choice I would recommend to purchase and not build would be a Barnegat Bay Style Sneakbox with a displacement instead of planing hull...There are a handful of people on this sight whom build them in the price ranges of $1200 to $3000 and you would be getting a satifying product for years to come...Of course if you are like me short of funds you might want to invest in the Broadbill or simliar boat to build yourself...It isn't rocket science to build but it will take 60 or so hours of your time over3 to 4 month period...I have estimated cost of around $1200 to build this boat to what I am wanting with the grade of wood and accessories on the boat. I have viewed guys build the same boat for $600 with change...Ask Eric Patterson on this website about this...He will have a lot of insight as well as others....
Good luck with your choices...
Dennis Smith
Active member
I could not agree with Kristan more! A small low profile boat with a dog in deep water is asking for real trouble!! If your are going to use a dog an carry any amount of decoys, a boat with enough beam width is needed so you can safely send the dog on a retrieve and get it back aboard. Choose the largest size boat that will work well with a pair of oars and will safely carry the load you want in case the wind and waves tell you it is time to head for shore. The boat most likely will be 13ft to 14ft long to give you enough beam width to be low profile and give you the ability to reboat your dog safely. If you find a boat that you like, then this summer can you test it in shallow water and try out the scenario that you will encounter. This may help you to train your dog and help you to know what it will take to send the dog out and reboat it along with the method of setting and retrieving your decoys that will work best. Remember, a duck is not worth your life!
.
.
Lee Harker
Well-known member
A Mighty Layout Boys Zack Box is ideal for what you want. I think to be able to hunt the dog too, you would need a bigger boat with a motor so you can take it to shore once in a while to relieve itself.
Charlie S and Titan
Well-known member
Harker,
I was just thinking of a sneakboat too. Seems like it does everything he needs. Don't put a motor on it and it will be very easily hidden on the open water.
I was just thinking of a sneakboat too. Seems like it does everything he needs. Don't put a motor on it and it will be very easily hidden on the open water.
Charlie S and Titan
Well-known member
A proper displacement hull 12' sneakboat would work fine. No need for a 14' yacht. 
Lee Harker
Well-known member
Charlie, a Zack box is what Rongers, Reder and Bires started layout hunting in. It makes a small footprint and is low. Used without the motormount, it is about as low as most layout boats on the market. We shot ducks out of Suttons big boat and they didn't seem to mind a big blob 30 yards outside the dekes....but those birds aren't as smart as ours.
Charlie S and Titan
Well-known member
We've got the dumb ones here in VT too. I hunt out of an 18' aluminum with blue and silver sides. They must be either dumb or suicidal to fly into my rig, but they don't seem to mind it at all.
ksherbine
Active member
I agree with Lee and Charlie, the Barnegat Bay Sneakbox is probably your best bet.
It rows like a dream, and hides almost as well as a layout boat. You definitely don't need a tender.
Either the MLB boat like Lee suggested, our our Classic Barnegat www.classicbarnegat.com . It all depends on what you're trying to do. For rowing, a displacement hull like our Classic Barnegat is the way to go. If you're looking for speed and are going to motoring a good distance, then the MLB Zack Taylor is probably better.
That's actually how we hunt with our Barnegats. One guy will go out in the middle of the lake and setup a layout spread. One guy will cross the lake and setup on a point, and the third guy wil row around "sculling" for ducks. It works really well.
Good Luck,
Kirk Sherbine
It rows like a dream, and hides almost as well as a layout boat. You definitely don't need a tender.
Either the MLB boat like Lee suggested, our our Classic Barnegat www.classicbarnegat.com . It all depends on what you're trying to do. For rowing, a displacement hull like our Classic Barnegat is the way to go. If you're looking for speed and are going to motoring a good distance, then the MLB Zack Taylor is probably better.
That's actually how we hunt with our Barnegats. One guy will go out in the middle of the lake and setup a layout spread. One guy will cross the lake and setup on a point, and the third guy wil row around "sculling" for ducks. It works really well.
Good Luck,
Kirk Sherbine
Lee Harker
Well-known member
Yep.....they were a 100 yards high and heading south.
Robert L E
Active member
One of the members from Finland, I think, hunts open water in a boat painted pure white. Another member said that this was common there. I've been looking at my aluminum canoe in the back yard. It is a bit dull like aluminum can get but it does resemble water. Water is shiny. Water is reflective. Water ofter looks blue. Mostly it looks like old aluminum.
If I had an aluminum layout or marsh boat I think I would leave the metal bare and not try to hide it at all. I would just try to hide the boat's contents. This would be along the idea of those who have used plastic sheeting to hide boats.
Bob
If I had an aluminum layout or marsh boat I think I would leave the metal bare and not try to hide it at all. I would just try to hide the boat's contents. This would be along the idea of those who have used plastic sheeting to hide boats.
Bob
I want to thank you for your feedback and the story. I'm really impressed by the all the folks that responded to this post. I've read several duck hunting sites and the group that is on this one always seems to be the most knowledgable and willing to provide useful feedback. I guess I have some thinking to do before taking on the big water and maybe stick with my ocean kayak on Manistee Lake. It is a smaller in land off Lake Michigan and I can cover my kayak in marsh grass and hunt in knee deep water. It works OK. It's just frustrating seeing the rafts of ducks sitting out in Lake Michigan.