Lead advisory forces N.D. food pantries to pull venison

Matt Vanderpan

Active member
Lead advisory forces N.D. food pantries to pull venison
By James MacPherson
Associated Press - 03/27/2008
BISMARCK — State health officials have told food pantries in North Dakota to throw out donated venison, saying it may have lead fragments. And the doctor who discovered the fragments is urging hunters who shot deer with high-velocity lead bullets to discard the meat.
Health officials found that samples from vension destined for food pantries tested “strongly positive” for lead, said Sandi Washek, the Health Department’s lead coordinator.
Washek said about 17,000 pounds of venison was donated in North Dakota this year through the Sportsmen Against Hunger program in which hunters donate their deer to the needy.
The venison was given to about 110 pantries in North Dakota, Washek said.
“There are still 4,000 to 5,000 pounds out there in pantries,” she said Wednesday. “We’re asking all the food pantries to throw it out in a landfill and not throw it out on garbage day, so no one will rifle through it.”
Health officials say children age 6 and younger and pregnant women are at greater risk for lead poisoning, which can cause confusion, learning problems and convulsions, and in severe cases can lead to brain damage and death. Washek said Wednesday that no sickness has been reported from potentially lead-tainted venison.
Dr. William Cornatzer, a Bismarck physician and hunter, said he became worried about the potential for lead fragments in venison after seeing a report by The Peregrine Fund of Boise, Idaho. He said the nonprofit group, of which he is a member, studied the effects on birds that ingested bullet fragments left behind in deer carcasses.
Lawmakers in California last year made it illegal for hunters to possess or fire lead ammunition when they are in California condor habitat, to protect North America’s largest flying bird.
“There have been studies about what it does to condors but nothing about humans,” said Cornatzer, a dermatologist and professor at UND medical school.
“Unfortunately, nobody has ever looked at this for humans — I wanted to see what’s in this stuff,” he said.
Cornatzer said he collected about 100, one-pound packages of ground venison from food pantries in December, with the help of health officials.
“Sixty percent of the packages had multiple fragments of lead in them — I about fell out of my chair,” said Cornatzer. He said Bismarck radiologist Ted Fogarty helped run CT scans on the meat.
Many of the fragments are microscopic, but can still cause harm to humans if ingested, Cornatzer said.
“What’s very scary about this is you can’t feel them — they’re like lead dust,” he said.
Cornatzer said he found that microscopic lead fragments can splatter as far away as 2 feet “on either side of the wound” on a deer.
“When a high-velocity bullet hits a deer, it explodes like a grenade,” Cornatzer said.
Cornatzer plans to present his findings at a conference sponsored by The Peregrine Fund in May, at Boise State. He has been hunting deer and he and his family have been eating venison for nearly 40 years, he said.
Solid copper bullets or jacketed lead bullets are available as alternatives to lead, Cornatzer said, and he intends to use that ammunition in the future.

People have been eating game harvested with lead projectiles for hundreds of yrs and all of a sudden we cant do so. Soon we as humans will only be allowed to ingest purified water and vitamin pills. Anything else could pose too large of a hazard. What a joke and a way to ruin a good program. I would like to see some sort of documentatin in regards to the amount of people who has illnesses or ailments related to eating game with microscopic lead particles in it. With the thousands of tons of game consumed yearly over the last few hundred yrs this sounds like another knee jerk reaction that ruins a good program.
 
Man, when I was stationed at Minot we always donated our meat because we had no place to keep it in the barracks. Darn shame it's a good program and I always got a nice pair of gloves out of it. Now I guess I'll clean out my freezer...yea sure. Like you said, pure bottled water and a few pills every morning. Whats the world coming to.
 
Yeah, that is silly, just silly. How many 'microscopic' lead fragments do we ingest every day just by breathing or eating other 'safe' food sources? My bet is more than one might ingest by eating deer meat a couple times a month. Just another sign of the times I guess.
 
WHAT A CROCK OF HORSE PUCKY THAT IS!!!!!

Man for all the venison I've eatin over the past 50 years hunted with slugs, if this is the case, I should be blind if not dead!

"Dr. William Cornatzer, a Bismarck physician and hunter, said he became worried about the potential for lead fragments in venison after seeing a report by The Peregrine Fund of Boise, Idaho."

I'm curious as to what was in that report that's so profound that NOW he's worried. He's more at risk walking across the parking lot to get into his Beamer!

"In the year 2525....!
 
“When a high-velocity bullet hits a deer, it explodes like a grenade,” Cornatzer said.


I would think if it explodes like a grenade, there'd be no meat to donate. This guy not only has the word DOCTOR in front of his name, but he's a bullistics expert too!

Too bad,

Jeff
 
you look at most rounds today and the good ones retain most of their mass. these folks must be hunting with incindiary rounds. if a bullet leaves an exit wound then i doubt very much if any of that bullet is still left. that doctor is an anti hunter, i dont care what that articles says that man has probably never hunted in his life, just like john kerry was supposed to be a sportsmen, anyone can right "hunter" infront of someones name to give them credibility.

lead dust, please. if its that small how do they know that the deer didnt ingest lead from minerals in the ground. they offer copper jacketed bullets as alternatives, i dont know of anyone that dosent shoot copper jacketed bullets. if you ask me i would think its the copper fragments that pose more of a risk they're more likely to travel further in a deers body then the blunt lead chunks.

i dont care what steve says this is definetly tied to anti hunters.

eddie
 
about lead fragmentation not being a problem.......

http://www.peregrinefund.org/pdfs/ResearchLibrary/Hunt%20et%20al%202006.pdf

Take a look at the x-ray in the paper that shows the amount of shedding that occurs and just how far those "particles" travel from the wound channel....

WHO KNOWS what the effects of all that lead that we've ingested over time actually has on us as we age......"maybe" thats why dementia rates are on the rise.....or "maybe" that level of dementia is normal and the reason it wasn't obvious in the past was because the average life span was reduced due to the amount of lead that was "historically" ingested.....

Someone said they wanted to see "studies of the effects"....like Travis said in a recent post...."step up and volunteer for that study"....bluntly put WHO would be stupid enough to knowingly ingest lead for a study or for that matter WHO would knowingly ingest a known poision when that poision could be avoided by the simple expediant of using an alternative method of killing their hamburger?

Before anyone jumps to any conclusions I got no problems with people eating meat that they killed, and will personally consume, using lead bullets....hell you can spray mercury on your tilapia fillets to fool yourself into thinking that your saving money on Swordfish for all that I care, but this SD action isn't about "keeping YOU from eating what YOU shot", rather its about feeding the meat the animal that you shot to someone else and saying that its "safe" when it might not be, and "that" is an entirely different packet of ground vension now isn't it?

As Lou Tisch stated as a Landlord he was sued over a tenants child ingesting lead paint that was in the house before he bought it.......now extrapolate that into feeding "leaded vension" to people and imagine not just the potential ill effects of the lead ingestion but also the eefects on the agencies that would be sued........

Simply put LEAD is bad shit.....it will kill you if you eat enough of it.....and it will mess you up if you eat it in quantities not great enough to kill you.....prove that one wrong if you can...

Lots more photos of bullet fragmentation can be found by googling if you "think" that the picture in the attached link is "tainted" because its used in a report that would like to see lead removed from the environment for the sake of a birds health......if you fallinto that category then ignore the report and just look at the X-ray and then tell me that you'd INTENTIONALLY sprinkle that same amount of lead in your cookie doough because "by god my ancestors ate lead all the time".....

Steve
 
Steve , I was just getting ready to give you all the elk meat in my freezer, guess I better take a 'U" turn and head to the dump.
 
hell the fact that I'm already DEMENTED is a well documented fact....

Point was that the presence of lead in a food source fed to an unknowing public is no different than any other "containmenant" and as such should not just be "ignored" because its a "good program".......

Don't forget as well that you aren't taking an entire donated carcass and grinding the entire thing into hamburger, which evenly distributes the lead present int he wound channel, so that you can feed the maximum number of people with it....big difference in preperation so that when you give me steaks that meat is a long way removed from the area that might have lead in it from the bullet.....

Now if you do happen to have some heavily shot up meat thats just chock full of lead fragments save that for me and I'll make sure it gets into the hands of a few of my "favorite" people......

Steve
 
Well, now that you put it that way the next time I'm asked to participate with donating a deer to the pantry in Illinois I'll have a ligitimate reason not to and I won't feel guilty!
 
Thanks for the post Matt.

As a person who deals with lead poisoned children on a daily basis and who has done hundreds of investigations into the causes of childhood lead poisoning this angle is news to me. Sounds like another anti hunting gambit to me and my crap o meter is going off like crazy. Most children are lead poisoned via ingesting lead dust from deteriorated house paint. or putting something like chinese made toys in their mouths. In ten years I know of one child who was poisoned by gun ammo and she swallowed a whole 38 cartridge.

Certainly I know of no (none, zero, zip) empirical data that would support this reactionary claim and action. I'm sure that there must be some anecdotal crap out there to support this silliness, but anecdotal evidence is usually poo pooed by serious scientists.

No, I'm not an MD, but my Master's degree is in Public Health from UNC-Chapel Hill and I am a Certified Industrial Hygiene Technician.

As an old professor of mine used to say, "beware the tyranny of the printed word".

Best,

Harry
 
the child was poisoned by the lead in the bullet --- i would have to believe it would pass before blood lead levels would get to a dangerous level -- not doubting your report -- just that i would figure that the digestive process would work faster than the poisoning process
 
Actually, I don't think it takes that long to have a definite effect on a body. My roomate years ago got lead poisoning pretty bad in his mouth - rotting, bleeding gums - and that was from holding lead pellets in his mouth between shots with the pellet gun. He'd chase chipmunks around the deck and outside of the house and it was just convenient to put a few in his mouth for a fast reload. I don't recall what other symptoms he had - fortunately the negative aspect of his gums was enough to get him in to see a doc and figure out what was going on.
 
I have to agree with Steve on this. We can't blame anyone else for what we put into our bodies, especially if we know there is a possible risk involved. Chronic Wasting Disease is a good example. We all know the risk involved but choose to accept the risk for the benefit of tasty venison. However, we shouldn't expect other people who may be unaware of the possible risks to do the same. We also shouldn't chastise the efforts of those who are trying to protect the innocent. Remember, it would be much worst if nothing was done and someone was shown to actually become seriously ill, or even die, as a result of eating tainted meat they had no knowledge of.
 
I do agree that lead is "bad shit" and who am I to say that their sample didn't have 50 out of 100 containing lead but the fact is donating venison to food pantries is a good reason to justify harvest of deer in the process of management. I recall our discussion over the condor last year and how I was informed that bullet disintegration was actually more common than I ever imagined.

I personally love to eat veni and when I kill a deer I salivate the second I see it drop. I can almost smell the fresh rosemary and peanut oil as it coats the bright red strappage right before it hits the grate(I have to head to the freezer and get a strap out). Consuming venison is the "main" purpose for hunting in the view of the non-informed average person. In reality, culling the heard for population control is the sole purpose of management from a biological standpoint. So, if it were possible to "create" the subterfuge that eating venison is "bad" and that it's especially bad for the poor citizenery of our fine country...the helpless have-nots and downtrodden...why then would it not be easier to convince John Q Dumbass that deer hunting is not justifiable? And therefore wouldn't it make more sense to control the animals with birth control pills? This incident wreaks of anti-hunter do gooder bleeding heart to me.

Its quite simple...you screen the meat for lead and then slap a chunk on the nearest homeless person's plate and call it good. Bon apetit!
 
you just know that the average "good person" that volunteers at the pantry HATES the idea that the ner-do-wells are eating killed meat! The horror of it all.
 
Physician...heal thyself. Or rather, read the study thyself rather than just use the pretty pictures as evidence.

The study did not differentiate between copper and lead fragments. So a jacketed bullet could "shed" copper through the wound channel, and those fragments were also included. Wait...this was about lead ingestion, but all we do is count the total fragments? Seems to put it into question right there.

Also, they are looking at offal piles and admit that those are the primary target areas of hunters. Last time I looked, the pantries weren't accepting the hearts, livers, lungs, etc.

Now, I'm not so blind as to say that a shoulder doesn't get hit, or fragments don't impact them. I know they do, and I don't doubt that you will have fragments of whatever type wherever the wound channel is. I've seen rib bone fragments get scattered through heart and lungs, and I know the impact of the bullet will fragment it as well.

But what I am saying is that when you sample the "hot zone", you tend to skew the results towards finding what you're looking for. It would be like sampling the rest areas at Wingmeade, McCollum's, and others then saying that there are currently 5,000,000 ducks in Arkansas because on those select areas you counted x.

I won't even argue with the study that suggests offal piles may be dangerous for avian scavengers. Maybe that alone warrants re-thinking - although the bald eagle has been de-listed, so this may or may not even be statistically significant.

The samples of meat examined - lead in 60% of the sample, so they recommend disposing of 5000 pounds of meat. Okay, at what level? How many per sample? The particles are admittedly microscopic, not even like sprinkling the meat with "lead salt"...even less - I get a dose of radiation every day when I step out into the sun, and there's no telling what particulates I'm breathing in.

Let's get beyond the scary headline and start really talking about it before we just react.
 
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