Motor Size and boat size question.

Todd Painton

Todd Painton

Member
This question is in regard to a Classic BBSB. I have talked with Ksherbine and read the threads that regard USCG testing and that the 14' boat is rated for 500# and 7hp. I completely understand that he is limited somewhat in his recommendations due to liability so I wanted to open the question up to the forum. Seeing that I have seen his boats with 15hp 2 strokes on them and heard they do well them, it's clear that the boat can indeed do well with a larger motor than what the USCG testing states.

To complicate the issue I am pondering the possibility of mounting one of the new lightweight longtail mudmotors. Specifically the Mudbuddy 9 Robin mini which is 9hp (obviously) and only 102lbs. I weight a mere 150lbs so I think the weight limit of 500 lbs is no problem at all. (My Lab is a mini also at only 48lbs) There is also a Honda 13 longtail mudmotor that only weighs 127lbs...

First questions: Is this technically illegal and do I risk fines for running a 13hp motor on a boat rated for 7? Am I crazy?

Secondly, Mudbuddy also has a surface drive that is 14hp and 165lbs. Still seems to be not a problem with regard to weight. Furthoremore, they are also sporting a 9hp surface drive motor that will weight even less.

More questions: Ksherbine states he thinks the boats would work great with a surface drive or longtail as long as the weight and HP were abided by. Any thoughts on a classic BBSB with this sort of propulsion?

Will a surface drive motor do poorly with a BBSB type boat? I really like the idea of feeling safe on open water but also getting in shallow without having to deal with the problems of a standard outboard. Am I creating a pipedream?

I'm not running out and getting a jon because I've hunted out of them for too long and I am tired of the drawbacks they have. I would like to feel a little safer, more stable and more cancelable.

Yes, I had planned on building and I am still pondiering but the fact is, I simply do no have an adequate area to build in. Until I buy a new home I think it is probably wiser to hold off on building until I can do it right. The Classic BBSB are nice looking, and affordable.

Any comments, suggestions, thoughts and criticism is welcome!
 
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Todd

The 10 and 15hp two strokes will weigh in around 75-80lbs. All of the mud motors you mentioned out weigh that by a good percentage. I run a small mud motor on the boat I have. No it is not a BBSB however I too was comcerned about getting as much HP as my boat would handle.

I talked to the guys at Beavertail, actually drove to the factory and talked to them in person. I talked to the folks at Mudbuddy. I went to a local dealer and installed a 13hp on my boat to try out. I borrowed a 6hp from a buddy and tried it out on my boat. I went back and talked to Mudbuddy again.

The results of my testing were; the 13hp only marginally gave me more top end speed than the 6hp. At all speeds the 13hp made the boat stern heavy and it drafted more water. the 6hp was just right. The only time the 13hp was the best, was when plowing thru thick cattails in an effort to stall forward motion. (as a test)

I didn't have a 9hp to put to the test and I figured that would be the best choice until I did some more talking with Mudbuddy. Glenn at Mudbuddy assured me that they also had done extensive testing (no surprise there). What was a surprise to me is that he stated that their 6hp longtail hyperdrive outperformed their 9hp unit!

So in conclusion, I have a 6hp Mudbuddy Longtail Hyperdrive on my boat and am very happy with it. As far as mud motor performance on my boat, this is the motor of choice.

Although your boat is a different hull shape, I still suspect you might have similar results given a chance to actually try several motors.

"[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]More questions: Ksherbine states he thinks the boats would work great with a surface drive or longtail as long as the weight and HP were abided by." Don't confuse this statement to mean the overall weight rating. Hanging more weight on the transom is way different than being able to move that weight around in the boat for best trim. With the 500lb / 7hp sticker, if you add 30lbs to the motor, reducing your "load" by 30 lbs is not an equal offset.


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was still owned by Don.....ran a 9.5hp Johnson, (one of theold low profile ones), on one of them and a 15 hp Yamaha on the other.....trailered them on a tandem trailer and typically ran in tandem with a friend to a gunning spot....the 15hp was NEVER any faster than the 9.5 hp and "I'd bet" that if we had had a third boat with a 7 hp on it that neither of mine would have been appreciably faster. The reason for that is the design of the boat.

The CLASSIC has the traditional low ht, (and low volume), stern and enormous, (compared to modern boats), amount of rocker.....this makes it the MOTHER OF DISPLACEMENT hulls. At some point, and I suspect that its at less than a 9.5hp outboard, additional potential speed is overcome by the sheer volume of water that the hull is pushing.....

Running them side by side with the motors above the boat running the 15hp gained little speed over the 9.5 but was pushing a hell of lot more water.....

The CLASSIC boat needs as little wt. on the stern as you can hang there because of the low ht. of the stern.....put too much wt on the rear and/or too much power and that hull will squat badly and you'll find yourself in situations where the bck deck will be awash.....scares the hell out of you the first few times it happens but as long as the water isn't too rough and as long as you have adequate drainage on the decoy boards, (the ORIGINAL Classic's did not), you're okay.....

I've never run a mud motor on one but in clam water and with the lightest wt. unit you can find I'd bet they'd do well....I don't like longtails in rough water because of the tendancy for the prop to bounce around and you ARE NOT going to be able to stand up in these boats so I can imagine that control in rough water would be problematic. I think that the surface drives solve that issue but they weigh more, (I believe), and were I to run a Classic boat again I'd want as little wt. on the back as possible.....

Get it into your head that this isn't a boat designed for speed.....its designed as a one man boat that can haul a decent load and be safe in rough water....rigged correctly it does that very well....you have some advantages based on your stated wt., (you are perhaps the lightest duck hunter that I have ever heard of over 11 years in age), and the fact that you hunt with a Chihuahua.....those are advantages....don't cancel them out by putting that wt with a motor that is too large.

Steve
 
be carefull with the new smaller mudbuddy 9 robin "suface drives". the prop is a advertized as a "sub surface" and runs like longtail?i dont know what they mean by that, buy my interpitation is that is costs two times as much as a 9 horse longtail and because of the prop and or gearing probably the same speed. not to take away from it, but for $2500 your closer to getting a 18-23 hp mudbuddy.
 
Todd maybe the lab will weigh more when he gets to be six months old:^) I'm in favor with the lightest two stroke under 10hp you can find.Good luck.
 
Excellent replies thanks. Sounds like a low hp long tail is the motor to try. They have some that weigh very little. Scavenger Backwater has a 6.5 hp that only weighs 68lbs. I know nothing about the company. Clearly, they are not as established as Go-Devil but the unit weighs 30lb less than the lightest go-devil.
 
on Barnegats....they are HUGE for their HP....and the Scavengers with the big hoop handles are one of the largest.....

You gun a Barnegat over the stern.....no matter which direction you turn a mud motor on the stern you still end up with the damn thing right in your line of sight and it will, from time to time, cost you shots because its in the way.......not sure wherre you plan on putting the "retrieving Chihuahua" but it will also make it more difficult for him to mark birds that fall off the stern of the boat.....

One more thing that I dislike about them in this situation is getting the boat into action quickly on cripples.....with the boat snuggled into vegeation, and a motor with no reverse and that would have to be lifted while you were pulling the boat out of the grass getting the boat out and moving will be a chore....doable if you can get out to move the boat around but very, very difficult if the waters too deep to get out.......what will happen is that you will compromise the boat placement as a concession for the motor....once you do that you will have lost one of the greatest advantages of the boat, its hideability....

Note that Dani isn't keen on Scavengers per her post above......valid points from first hand experience on this motor....I've not owned one but will say this is the first negative I've heard on them.....

Steve
 
Todd, unless you were planning to take the motor off when you get to your hunt site, I don't know how you would hide a longtail motor. The height of your camo would ruin what a sneak boat is designed for, as Steve said. Look on GlenL's sight and see if they have a jon type boat that would more closely match what you are trying to acheive. I know Mark Rongers runs a mud motor on the Chuck Huff BBSB and thinks it's wonderful...in it's place.
 
Here's an image I came across. I think the hunter is actually shooting right through the motor! I see what you mean with regard to the size of the motor. Especially this Scavenger we see mounted here..

The smaller engines that we see on the 4 rivers boats are definitely smaller and not as large.

IMG_4736.JPG


Here's the same boat with a standard outboard. (I know he had to pull that boat in there.. I WOULD HAVE TO!)

IMG_4752.JPG


This is the 6 Robin.. Note, much lower profile.

mini_buddy_10.jpg

 
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actually about to shoot thorugh the steering handle loop.......

Thats Marks BIG BBSB and that is a much bigger motor than you would use on the much smaller Classic boat.....the size, no reverse and hideability issues still apply though.....look at the mo marsh page for the FatBoy with the small longtail on it.....I think thats a good resprensentation of the motor size you'll be dealing with on the transom....

Steve
 
the front of the cockpit with your head just at cockpit level and trying to see anything off the stern of the boat.....

Clearly if you need a mud motor to operate where you are going to be hunting, or have just made your mind up that thats what you want, then that will be the way to go.....just be aware that hp for hp mudmotors are bigger, and way harder to hide, and handle due to lack of reverse and that long tail.....

Steve
 
That's me in the second pic. We floated in there as Marks motor wouldn't start. That was the Chuck Huff Boat not their gunship. If you have any inkling about hunting 2 guys or you lab and you...forget it with the mud motor. You almost HAVE to stand up to drive one and they stick clear forward in the boat with the steering handles and a rambunctious dog will knock you over the side.
 
and while a rambuncitious hamster can be a handful you really wouldn't have to worry about getting knocked out of the boat by it.....

Mark, Mark Rongers, with a motor that won't start.....wow! what a surprise......

BUwhahahahahahahha I crack myself up.....


Steve
 
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in have the beavertail 6.5 honda,its a perfect match for my 14 foot kara hummer squareback, it pushes me around 10-12 mph.you can take the motor off easy, to hide the boat. doesnt stick up like the scavanger, i like the scavangers ALOT, but they are slower than most, but from what i hear will grind tru anything.
 
Hey! A 48lb Hamster would be tough to shave. I'll have to have it proven to me otherwise BUT..a longtail mud motor has no place where the water may get big...like water where a BBSB would be needed. It's hard enough when you have the max power on a boat when the chips are down, I can't imagine having to turn up out of a trough (troff) with a longtail or racing a following sea to protected water.
 
shampooe'd a few buffalo in my day but never had the opportunity to shave a hamster.....I'll take your word for it....

And I agree WHOLE HEARTEDLY with the "longtails" don't belong on small boat on rough water.....

Steve
 
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