Pistol Help Needed for a Non-Pistol Owner
- Thread starter Eric Patterson
- Start date
I won't enter the debate on guns, or the benefits of snakes... it is what it is.
However, you asked for recommendations for a "pistol" to carry for snake protection while working rough in snake country - especially in areas where you are very likely to encounter venomous snakes.
My suggestion would be to look at a Ruger LCR in .22 caliber.
.22 cal LR is more than adequate to kill a snake at a safe distance... ammo is cheap enough to practice with as well. The Ruger is very well made and will stand up to daily use and carry. It is lightweight. It has a shrouded hammer to allow pocket carry without hanging up on clothing. It also has an 8 round capacity.
Did I say lightweight? To me that is the most important benefit while working... a full size revolver can be heavy - the heaviest being the .410 capable models. Wear one of them all day and you'll think it is an added tool belt on your side.... even a .410 Bond derringer will be heavier, loaded, than a LCR 8 shot revolver.
A revolver is necessary if you want to use birdshot ammo... pellet loads are generally not powerful enough to cycle a semi automatic action handgun.
As for permitting and other legal concerns... I believe you will find yourself fortunate to live where you do. Contact your local law enforcement, or seek out a NRA instructor at a local gun range, or shop. They should steer you right.
Also, if using rat shot, bird shot, pellet loads... whatever you may want to call them... try to locate some solid "brass" crimped ammo. The plastic cap style, pellet loaded rounds have been known to work loose, or break, after extended carry and they can dump all their shot. Leaving you with a dummy load when you need it most. Ask me how I know... [whistle]
However, you asked for recommendations for a "pistol" to carry for snake protection while working rough in snake country - especially in areas where you are very likely to encounter venomous snakes.
My suggestion would be to look at a Ruger LCR in .22 caliber.
.22 cal LR is more than adequate to kill a snake at a safe distance... ammo is cheap enough to practice with as well. The Ruger is very well made and will stand up to daily use and carry. It is lightweight. It has a shrouded hammer to allow pocket carry without hanging up on clothing. It also has an 8 round capacity.
Did I say lightweight? To me that is the most important benefit while working... a full size revolver can be heavy - the heaviest being the .410 capable models. Wear one of them all day and you'll think it is an added tool belt on your side.... even a .410 Bond derringer will be heavier, loaded, than a LCR 8 shot revolver.
A revolver is necessary if you want to use birdshot ammo... pellet loads are generally not powerful enough to cycle a semi automatic action handgun.
As for permitting and other legal concerns... I believe you will find yourself fortunate to live where you do. Contact your local law enforcement, or seek out a NRA instructor at a local gun range, or shop. They should steer you right.
Also, if using rat shot, bird shot, pellet loads... whatever you may want to call them... try to locate some solid "brass" crimped ammo. The plastic cap style, pellet loaded rounds have been known to work loose, or break, after extended carry and they can dump all their shot. Leaving you with a dummy load when you need it most. Ask me how I know... [whistle]
Tom Wall
Well-known member
Eric,
I am somewhat in the same boat. I am basically a shotgun shooter and am looking to get a handgun. I have decided to take a couple of shooting classes first. Then, take the required CCL course in Ohio. One of the reasons for doing it this way is to get range time with different firearms. Thomas should try to shoot the gun before buying to make sure it is what he wants.
I never found the need to carry for snake protection when living in north Florida. But, that is not a reason to not carry. As a yankee stomping through the swamps and hammocks I lived to tell some funny stories. My fellow yankee who got me into bow hunting both have vivid imaginations but only talked ourselves out of the woods once or twice. Most times we were armed with at least arrows with boradheads.
Tom
I am somewhat in the same boat. I am basically a shotgun shooter and am looking to get a handgun. I have decided to take a couple of shooting classes first. Then, take the required CCL course in Ohio. One of the reasons for doing it this way is to get range time with different firearms. Thomas should try to shoot the gun before buying to make sure it is what he wants.
I never found the need to carry for snake protection when living in north Florida. But, that is not a reason to not carry. As a yankee stomping through the swamps and hammocks I lived to tell some funny stories. My fellow yankee who got me into bow hunting both have vivid imaginations but only talked ourselves out of the woods once or twice. Most times we were armed with at least arrows with boradheads.
Tom
Vince Pagliaroli
Well-known member
Mike
I have to ask you. "How you know"?
Cuz I shot them, and found them to be damn near useless. Thank goodness I never had to count on them before I found that out.
So I would like to read your story, if you don't mind.
Also, considering the shrouded hammer on the Ruger .22.
Does it have a good enough trigger that when shooting, it does not take you off target, like some shrouded hammer, short barrel revolvers?
Fritz Meck
Member
My wife carries a Judge .45 Colt/ .410 . We patterned it , with the .410 at 25 yards you would be dead, at 50 yards the .45 Colt would do the job nicely. As for snakes they don't taste very good so why shoot them?
Christoph
Member
If your son is going to be shooting things because they are scary looking; beyond the CCW and gun selection I'd recommend brushing up on snake ID (as most people are HORRIBLE at it). There are several snakes that are protected in AL, wouldn't want him shooting the Harlequin duck of snakes just because he couldn't ID (not exactly the same vis-a-vis penalties.... but you get the point). Here is a list with the protected snakes in AL http://www.outdooralabama.com/nongame-vertebrates-protected-alabama-regulations
noweil Mike
Well-known member
I am all for shooting hand guns and being proficient with the weapon you chose to carry. However, I believe strongly in letting the snakes live. I have lived, worked and hunted in snake country. I still work in areas with rattle snakes. Let the snakes alone.
Vince Pagliaroli
Well-known member
Fritz - I agree, they do not taste like "chicken."
When they strike at your dog (and miss, thankfully), a dose of lead is called for, regrettably. IF you are close enough, if not, strike two does the job on the dog.
A .410 has it's usefulness, that's for sure.
The new issue of F&S shows a guy shooting a gobbler, very close, with a .410 Judge. Not my cup of tea, but to each their own.
Vince Pagliaroli
Well-known member
For those interested.
Goggle - Robert J. "Jake" Bingle / Marshalls Funeral Home, for Mr. Bingle's obituary.
Mr. Bingle was the most noted Rattle Snake Hunter in western, north western, and north central PA, for many years.
Rattlers that he captured (and then released), were on display in a large case at Haller's General Store, Tionesta, PA. More for educational purpose, than carnival side show.
The Pittsburgh paper did a article about Mr. Bingle, years before his death.
Mr. Bingle mentored my very good friend John, who became one of his hunting partners.
They milked most of the snakes, for use for antivenom, and had certificates of appreciation from all major medical universities and hospitals. After milking they would return the snakes to where they were captured.
In all the years that John hunted with Mr. Bingle. I know of only one snake that was killed, and yes we did eat it.
Men such as these deserve the credit that they are due, but seldom get the recognition that they deserve. Check the price of antivenom today, and you will be impressed. If struck, you better have very deep pockets.
John was hit and killed, by a hit and run driver in 1995. I miss him dearly. He taught me much and was generous to a fault.
Sorry to get off topic, but snakes trigger many memories, good and not so good.
Phil Nowack
Well-known member
I am a big fan of the Springfield XD's....
Wife and I both carry the XDS. You can get it in 9mm, 40 S&W, or 45 ACP. It is a single stack and comfortable. That being said, I am not sure that any handgun is the right choice for a snake gun... unless you are a VERY good shot.
Wife and I both carry the XDS. You can get it in 9mm, 40 S&W, or 45 ACP. It is a single stack and comfortable. That being said, I am not sure that any handgun is the right choice for a snake gun... unless you are a VERY good shot.
Kristan
Well-known member
For overall snakes and home protection:
-Taurus Judge
It holds standard 410 loads and various Shocker or defense rounds in the same size. Small frame...Easily concealed if needed.
Another idea:
-Either 586 or 686 classic Frame Ruger with double trigger action in 357 with snake/rat shot loads
Both guns are exceptionally loud; you could possibly have short term ringing without hearing protection but I do expect a two inch fang with poison out weighs having hearing protection in all the time.
My opinion would be to steer away from any 1911 style actions; preference of cleaning but they are capable of reloading faster with extra magazine.
I do not know the by laws in your state but most states (last time I recall but don't quote, things have change, all but 5 in the US) have a rule that if the gun is within your vehicle and loaded it is legal due to the fact that a vehicle is an extension of your home. Another law of governance is the concealed carry vs. open carry. I have been blessed to live in states that open carry is legal so as long as it is holstered in plain sight with the exception of the 30 06 Ruling; where a gun is not allowed within the confines of the any public business or public municipality. You actually have to walk through the doors with the firearm in person. Or if a security gate is passed showing the signs on the property of a privately owned business they may/can prosecute you even if it is in your locked vehicle. The last factor is the concealed part which can be taken care of by a Concealed Carry Permit (most states, again except 5 have reciprocal rulings on a Concealed Carry Permit, check into that as well I know Texas CCP was reciprocal in all states except 5) which still have the stipulation governed by the 30 06 ruling. The last time I checked one of the only states around the central US that has a two step policy is Illinois. The gun and shells MUST to be separated and locked.
If an officer of the law; local, state or Federal stops your vehicle it is first courtesy to state that you do have a firearm in your vehicle especially a concealed pistol. If loaded, tell them it is loaded and two things may occur they may ask after a 2nd officer is present to enter your vehicle to inspect the firearm in which they will first unload and look at serial numbers or they may have trust in you as a sound citizen to allow you with caution to retrieve, unload and hand them the firearm. Don't think your butt would not whistle if you fart at that moment once the officers gets in a forward lunge stance and has his gun unclipped looking at your every move. Been through this 4 times in past decade through either check points or being stopped early in the morning driving to hunting lease. They will be on high alert but also confide with your after following all precautions. If you travel the same path as I did to hunting lease it gets to a point where they honk when they drive past you.
I do not believe your son will have any problems with having it on him while working. BUT, Laws change drastically with all manners of addendums. Please be aware of your local state laws and if you cross state boarders. Canada is the only place besides Illinois that has stricter pistol requirement that I know of in all of the Central US. I don't even think about bringing a pistol while hunting in Canada. Its the first thing taken out of my truck while packing to go; shells and all items even related.
Regards,
Kristan
-Taurus Judge
It holds standard 410 loads and various Shocker or defense rounds in the same size. Small frame...Easily concealed if needed.
Another idea:
-Either 586 or 686 classic Frame Ruger with double trigger action in 357 with snake/rat shot loads
Both guns are exceptionally loud; you could possibly have short term ringing without hearing protection but I do expect a two inch fang with poison out weighs having hearing protection in all the time.
My opinion would be to steer away from any 1911 style actions; preference of cleaning but they are capable of reloading faster with extra magazine.
I do not know the by laws in your state but most states (last time I recall but don't quote, things have change, all but 5 in the US) have a rule that if the gun is within your vehicle and loaded it is legal due to the fact that a vehicle is an extension of your home. Another law of governance is the concealed carry vs. open carry. I have been blessed to live in states that open carry is legal so as long as it is holstered in plain sight with the exception of the 30 06 Ruling; where a gun is not allowed within the confines of the any public business or public municipality. You actually have to walk through the doors with the firearm in person. Or if a security gate is passed showing the signs on the property of a privately owned business they may/can prosecute you even if it is in your locked vehicle. The last factor is the concealed part which can be taken care of by a Concealed Carry Permit (most states, again except 5 have reciprocal rulings on a Concealed Carry Permit, check into that as well I know Texas CCP was reciprocal in all states except 5) which still have the stipulation governed by the 30 06 ruling. The last time I checked one of the only states around the central US that has a two step policy is Illinois. The gun and shells MUST to be separated and locked.
If an officer of the law; local, state or Federal stops your vehicle it is first courtesy to state that you do have a firearm in your vehicle especially a concealed pistol. If loaded, tell them it is loaded and two things may occur they may ask after a 2nd officer is present to enter your vehicle to inspect the firearm in which they will first unload and look at serial numbers or they may have trust in you as a sound citizen to allow you with caution to retrieve, unload and hand them the firearm. Don't think your butt would not whistle if you fart at that moment once the officers gets in a forward lunge stance and has his gun unclipped looking at your every move. Been through this 4 times in past decade through either check points or being stopped early in the morning driving to hunting lease. They will be on high alert but also confide with your after following all precautions. If you travel the same path as I did to hunting lease it gets to a point where they honk when they drive past you.
I do not believe your son will have any problems with having it on him while working. BUT, Laws change drastically with all manners of addendums. Please be aware of your local state laws and if you cross state boarders. Canada is the only place besides Illinois that has stricter pistol requirement that I know of in all of the Central US. I don't even think about bringing a pistol while hunting in Canada. Its the first thing taken out of my truck while packing to go; shells and all items even related.
Regards,
Kristan
Mark W
Well-known member
What to say to an officer when stopped and carrying a gun in the vehicle - this is a tough one. A National case was made when just such a thing happened here in MN - Philandro Castile (spelling I correct I think). Allegedly he was pulled over for a minor infraction. When the officer approached he said he had a loaded gun in the vehicle. When he made a move to retrieve his ID or insurance card or whatever, the officer thought he was reaching for the gun and shot him dead - I think 7 times. The cop was found to not be guilty and we will never know what really happened I am afraid as it became a political football and not a case of right and wrong (my opinion).
With a Jeep SUV, it has complicated my response to an officer when stopped. I have always been instructed by a highway patrolman buddy of mine that when being flagged down by a cop to pull over, find the safest place to do so for the cop to be able to approach you, Immediately after turning off your vehicle and removing your sunglasses, roll down your window and place both hands outside the window. When the officer sees this, he is led to believe that you pose no threat. Then after the cop approaches, you inform him you have a gun inside the vehicle and it is in the far back of the SUV. With the above case of Mr. Castile, I don't know if informing a cop of a gun in the far back of the Jeep is a good thing to do or not. If I am being pulled over for a traffic violation, and my gun is unladed and cased in the far back of the vehicle, why would I be required, or why would I let the office know this? If he has cause to suspect me of something more sinister than a bad tail light and want's to pull me from the Jeep and search it, I've done nothing wrong by having an unloaded cased gun in it.
Where I work they have a rule that says no firearms are to be in the premises. I once asked if this includes in the parking lot unloaded and cased and was told no guns on the premises anywhere. When I pointed out the sign says "in" not "on", I was told no guns. Signs now all say "on" these premises. Won't stop me from bringing a gun in the vehicle and parking in the lot a long way from the entrance though. It isn't viable for me to have to go home with the gun before of after coming to work.
Anyway.....
Mark
With a Jeep SUV, it has complicated my response to an officer when stopped. I have always been instructed by a highway patrolman buddy of mine that when being flagged down by a cop to pull over, find the safest place to do so for the cop to be able to approach you, Immediately after turning off your vehicle and removing your sunglasses, roll down your window and place both hands outside the window. When the officer sees this, he is led to believe that you pose no threat. Then after the cop approaches, you inform him you have a gun inside the vehicle and it is in the far back of the SUV. With the above case of Mr. Castile, I don't know if informing a cop of a gun in the far back of the Jeep is a good thing to do or not. If I am being pulled over for a traffic violation, and my gun is unladed and cased in the far back of the vehicle, why would I be required, or why would I let the office know this? If he has cause to suspect me of something more sinister than a bad tail light and want's to pull me from the Jeep and search it, I've done nothing wrong by having an unloaded cased gun in it.
Where I work they have a rule that says no firearms are to be in the premises. I once asked if this includes in the parking lot unloaded and cased and was told no guns on the premises anywhere. When I pointed out the sign says "in" not "on", I was told no guns. Signs now all say "on" these premises. Won't stop me from bringing a gun in the vehicle and parking in the lot a long way from the entrance though. It isn't viable for me to have to go home with the gun before of after coming to work.
Anyway.....
Mark
tod osier said:
Same here in NY Todd. Funny two of the more difficult states to acquire a Ccp allows you not to inform. The few times I have been in recent road blocks; escaped prisoners,border patrol check points or excessive speed, the officers or troopers were glad I was willing to tell them but they never asked to see the sidearm or look at the ccp in my hand. One troopers response was "I'll make a deal with ya ,you keep yours' in your holster and I'll keep mine in mine,have a nice day"
"Where I work they have a rule that says no firearms are to be in the premises. I once asked if this includes in the parking lot unloaded and cased and was told no guns on the premises anywhere. When I pointed out the sign says "in" not "on", I was told no guns. Signs now all say "on" these premises. Won't stop me from bringing a gun in the vehicle and parking in the lot a long way from the entrance though. "
I do get a kick out these work place rules. Where I work there is a little sticker with the circle and a slash over a picture of a handgun at each turnstile leading into the building. No guards, no metal detectors, no cameras once inside. Now you tell me if a disgruntled employee hell bend on murder has any reason to think he can't just sashay into work and start shooting the place up what's going to stop him or her. Hell, wearing the right coat a shooter could carry an AR15, AK47 or about anything else he wanted to bring in. No clear back packs here.
I do get a kick out these work place rules. Where I work there is a little sticker with the circle and a slash over a picture of a handgun at each turnstile leading into the building. No guards, no metal detectors, no cameras once inside. Now you tell me if a disgruntled employee hell bend on murder has any reason to think he can't just sashay into work and start shooting the place up what's going to stop him or her. Hell, wearing the right coat a shooter could carry an AR15, AK47 or about anything else he wanted to bring in. No clear back packs here.
Frank BeFay
Active member
not sure the laws but snake chaps work and are cheap comparatively. snakes play a vital role in controlling rats and mice. might be a good reason to not kill them. if you are determined to kill them a Thompson contender single shot in 410 would be the best tool. good luck
Thanks for the suggestions and advice. Right now it looks like the Taurus Judge is the way to go. Thomas's friend's dad has one so Thomas had a chance to look at it close and likes it. I did find out in AL he can get a CCP at age 18. They have a simple online application. Funny thing is he can't actually buy a gun until 21. So you can conceal carry a gun that you can't buy. Doesn't make much sense but a friend made the analogy you can get a driver's license at 16 but you can't buy a car until 19.
Thanks again.
Eric
Thanks again.
Eric
Tom Wall
Well-known member
Eric Patterson said:
This is what happens when we turn personal responsibility over to our governments. You get people making rules that they often do not have to follow themselves
The judge sounds like a good choice to start a personal collection with. He will have a good story to tell his children on why he got has that gun.
Tom