Planting fruit pits.
- Thread starter kenmack
- Start date
Steve Sutton
Well-known member
(you'll hear them called "seedlings" by the way when they sprout naturally but not when they are grafted), so if you are planting with fruit production as your goal you need to purchase stock that has been "grafted".....
I can't help you on the need to do anything to the seeds you have if you want to plant those but will state that after years and years of working in Peach orchards when I lived in the South I can never recall seeing a "seedling" sprout so there must be something to it...never see an apple, or cherry seedling sprout out of the compost pile either and I swear a twinkie will sprout there based on the "stuff" that I've seen growing there....
Good luck....but I'd go nursery stock.....
Steve
I can't help you on the need to do anything to the seeds you have if you want to plant those but will state that after years and years of working in Peach orchards when I lived in the South I can never recall seeing a "seedling" sprout so there must be something to it...never see an apple, or cherry seedling sprout out of the compost pile either and I swear a twinkie will sprout there based on the "stuff" that I've seen growing there....
Good luck....but I'd go nursery stock.....
Steve
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Don't hold me to this but, I have heard that cherry pits/seeds need to be frozen or chilled for a long period before they will germinate. I assume this is to duplicate normal winter conditions.
Maybe Jeff King will look it up in a book for you. ;>) ;>)
Maybe Jeff King will look it up in a book for you. ;>) ;>)
Michael J.
Member
These three seeds do not require scarifacation, but stratification(cold treatment) is required.
Cherry is the longest at 150 days, peach and plum both around 100. In a jar at 33-41 F, with a lightly moistened mulch/sand mix, allow air to circulate, punch holes in the lid
Peach and plum are both planted at around 2', while the cherry should be just under an inch.
As stated earlier, trees planted from seeds do not usually match the growth, vigor, or fruit production of the parent tree, nursery stock is the way to go.
Cherry is the longest at 150 days, peach and plum both around 100. In a jar at 33-41 F, with a lightly moistened mulch/sand mix, allow air to circulate, punch holes in the lid
Peach and plum are both planted at around 2', while the cherry should be just under an inch.
As stated earlier, trees planted from seeds do not usually match the growth, vigor, or fruit production of the parent tree, nursery stock is the way to go.
Doug Gradin
Member
My wife and I used to make a lot of peach preserves in the summer with peaches from a tree that was growing in the landscaping of the local credit union. They were the best peaches in the world, but I have no idea what variety they were. 3 years ago they cut the tree down. Anyhow, we'd always throw the pits into our compost pile, and when the finished compost was mixed in with our veggie garden we'd always have peach seedlings showing up in the spring. In fact there's a new one this year (at least 4 years after it went into the compost). When they cut the tree down we decided to let a few of the seedlings grow, and this year the biggest one is probably 12ft tall and has about 50 peaches on it. That's nowhere near as many as the parent tree, but hopefully in future years it will produce better, but if not, I'm hoping the fruit it does produce is similar to the parent tree. My advice for planting pits? Compost 'em, mix 'em in with regular dirt, and wait.....
Steve Sutton
Well-known member
appreciable amount of fruit if you start from seed......I realize that you're younger than a good number of the Old Farts around these parts but you'll be approaching "our age" before you can feed much starting from pits....and if its for Deer I'd stick with Apples....
"Soft Mast" stuff like Plums and Peaches are great for Bears and Birds and Coons and Opposums but mature early and are gone too quick to be particularly good as Deer food....stick with Apples and they'll last into the winter and be of more value to the Deer....
Steve
"Soft Mast" stuff like Plums and Peaches are great for Bears and Birds and Coons and Opposums but mature early and are gone too quick to be particularly good as Deer food....stick with Apples and they'll last into the winter and be of more value to the Deer....
Steve
Ken
Our plum tree was LOADED this year. So much the limbs were dragging thr ground. We couldn't keep up with that single tree. It must have been maiking up for last year's pitiful crop. Cassie gorged on plums to the point her crap was purple and high volume took on new highs, seriously. I told Caroline Barney had been playing in our backyard, "Look Barney was here and he used the bathroom next to your fort, see."
So if you want some plums come next year just feel free to pick all you want. You can spread them for deer wherever you please.
Our plum tree was LOADED this year. So much the limbs were dragging thr ground. We couldn't keep up with that single tree. It must have been maiking up for last year's pitiful crop. Cassie gorged on plums to the point her crap was purple and high volume took on new highs, seriously. I told Caroline Barney had been playing in our backyard, "Look Barney was here and he used the bathroom next to your fort, see."
So if you want some plums come next year just feel free to pick all you want. You can spread them for deer wherever you please.
Bob B
Well-known member
Ken
this thread on the mich QDMA forum should be of interest to you.
Get toward the bottom and you will find some cool stuff. I got a paper copy of some info from a former orchard guy at work too on apples.
If you are into food plots let me know, I have a few good links to some very good forums.
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227905
this thread on the mich QDMA forum should be of interest to you.
Get toward the bottom and you will find some cool stuff. I got a paper copy of some info from a former orchard guy at work too on apples.
If you are into food plots let me know, I have a few good links to some very good forums.
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227905
William Stahl
Active member
You guys haven't been duck hunting lately, have you?
Hang in there. It won't be long now.
Wm. Stahl
Hang in there. It won't be long now.
Wm. Stahl
When I lived in Cheboygan Michigan the grouse hunting tactic for some locals was to drive from one "in the woods" apple tree to apple tree.
When we owned 50 acres in W Massachusetts I had one old apple tree on the property that had about a 33% chance of having a grouse around it. Probably the same bird everytime but it always outsmarted me.
An apple orchard guy told me that you can improve the productivity of an overgrown apple tree by chain sawing the center of the tree out to allow a "cone" of light to get in.
When we owned 50 acres in W Massachusetts I had one old apple tree on the property that had about a 33% chance of having a grouse around it. Probably the same bird everytime but it always outsmarted me.
An apple orchard guy told me that you can improve the productivity of an overgrown apple tree by chain sawing the center of the tree out to allow a "cone" of light to get in.
Steve Sutton
Well-known member
in Oregon for Turkeys that has (5) Pear trees on it...the chimney and the trees are all thats left of the homestead and without them you'd never know that the place had ever been homesteaded.....the last human activity there, outside of running cattle on the ground, was back in the mid-40's when there was an Army tent camp there so that makes it 60 years without any activity but cattle......
In the pictures of the Army camp, which had its headquarters near the old house foundation because thats where the spring was, you can see the (5) Pear trees....60 years later its still those (5) Pear trees on the homestead compound and then if you look hard you'll find another dozen or so "seedlings" that have endured over the years.....(in fact this was the location where I learned that you only call fruit trees "seedlings" if they are planted from seed as opposed to trees started from root stock and grafted which aren't referred to as "seedlings")......
Since I never see the trees anytime but in the Spring I asked the friend that I hunt with there how they "bear" in the fall and he told me very poorly and that he knew for a fact that the none of the "seedlings" had ever produced over a couple of dozen rock hard, badly mis-shapen, Pears in all the years he'd hunted that area, (and he's in his 70's and has hunted the area since the Army left the area in the late 40's).
Jump forward a couple of years to when he put in a "subteranean clover" food plot on the pasture above the old homestead and in the first year fertilized it heavily....this is a "wet" pasture and the shallow ground water runs downhill into the old homesite. Since fruit had already set prior to fertilizing the first year it did not increase the number of pears that first season but it definately improved the quality of the fruit, and vitality of the trees, and at least two Bears moved in to feed on the Pears in the late Summer. Bears being Bears they beat the trees up pretty badly and while not doing a particularly attractive orchardists "prune" they did open up the crown of the trees substantially.....
The following Spring the trees bloomed more heavily than I've ever seen and that fall had fruit that was actually recognizable as Pears. It still never ripened like we think of when we think of good Pears but they were bigger and sweeter and more numerous and the Bears came back that fall and did more pruning.....
Long, round about, rambling, story to get to the point that on old, established, abandoned, fruit trees that some judicious pruning and some timely fertilizer will go a long way towards improving the yield......and also because I like thinking about the place.....
Not surprisingly the "seedlings" which are out of the water flow still don't produce but a few, rock hard, ittle Pears each fall and since they are all over 15 years old I doubt they ever will without help.....
Great site Bob, thanks for posting the link...Neat project Ken....and even if you are older than Parks when the trees first bear fruit it will still have been fun.....careful though planting trees falls for wildlife falls into the GREEN WIENIE category and I know how you hardcore Republicans feel about them.....
Steve
In the pictures of the Army camp, which had its headquarters near the old house foundation because thats where the spring was, you can see the (5) Pear trees....60 years later its still those (5) Pear trees on the homestead compound and then if you look hard you'll find another dozen or so "seedlings" that have endured over the years.....(in fact this was the location where I learned that you only call fruit trees "seedlings" if they are planted from seed as opposed to trees started from root stock and grafted which aren't referred to as "seedlings")......
Since I never see the trees anytime but in the Spring I asked the friend that I hunt with there how they "bear" in the fall and he told me very poorly and that he knew for a fact that the none of the "seedlings" had ever produced over a couple of dozen rock hard, badly mis-shapen, Pears in all the years he'd hunted that area, (and he's in his 70's and has hunted the area since the Army left the area in the late 40's).
Jump forward a couple of years to when he put in a "subteranean clover" food plot on the pasture above the old homestead and in the first year fertilized it heavily....this is a "wet" pasture and the shallow ground water runs downhill into the old homesite. Since fruit had already set prior to fertilizing the first year it did not increase the number of pears that first season but it definately improved the quality of the fruit, and vitality of the trees, and at least two Bears moved in to feed on the Pears in the late Summer. Bears being Bears they beat the trees up pretty badly and while not doing a particularly attractive orchardists "prune" they did open up the crown of the trees substantially.....
The following Spring the trees bloomed more heavily than I've ever seen and that fall had fruit that was actually recognizable as Pears. It still never ripened like we think of when we think of good Pears but they were bigger and sweeter and more numerous and the Bears came back that fall and did more pruning.....
Long, round about, rambling, story to get to the point that on old, established, abandoned, fruit trees that some judicious pruning and some timely fertilizer will go a long way towards improving the yield......and also because I like thinking about the place.....
Not surprisingly the "seedlings" which are out of the water flow still don't produce but a few, rock hard, ittle Pears each fall and since they are all over 15 years old I doubt they ever will without help.....
Great site Bob, thanks for posting the link...Neat project Ken....and even if you are older than Parks when the trees first bear fruit it will still have been fun.....careful though planting trees falls for wildlife falls into the GREEN WIENIE category and I know how you hardcore Republicans feel about them.....
Steve
kenmack
Active member
I planted 15 apple trees this year and 16 oaks. I've found numerous plum, crab apple and persimmon trees scattered throughout the 275 acres. I will eventually liberate these plums and crabapples. Also, I'll probably buy a few more apple trees. I'm managing for deer and turkeys primarily, but also there are ducks, predators and small game. I have to work on the cheap and am the only source for labor. Costs, equipment issues, rain, no rain, lack of help and lack of time limit how much I can do, but I love doing it just the same. I've taken to, or, more appropriately, returned to deer hunting which, unlike duck hunting in Alabama, when i go, I at least get to shoot.
Bob B
Well-known member
Gary
where in Wmass did you live. I grew up in Deerfield. Hunted all over that valley as a kid with many a day spent scouting on dirt bikes. What a place.
Steve. great story. I remember one specific ridge top orchard. All grown in, just on the edge of a high line. Boy did that place set down some learning about edge cover to a young guy. Did not "Get" half of the lessons till later in life, but they were all there right in front of my eyes.
I dug up a bunch of cool sites related to food plotting and small acreage land management. here are a few others........
V. good on food plots with many links and sticky topics to help......
http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=21&page=1
More good stuff.
http://www.kisky.com/forum/default.aspx?f=21
Cool info on Oak mast.
http://www.whitetailstewards.com/ar...tatmanagement/improveacornproductionpart1.htm
Best seed company going. Mix what you want and no BS about small orders.
http://www.welterseed.com/default.aspx
where in Wmass did you live. I grew up in Deerfield. Hunted all over that valley as a kid with many a day spent scouting on dirt bikes. What a place.
Steve. great story. I remember one specific ridge top orchard. All grown in, just on the edge of a high line. Boy did that place set down some learning about edge cover to a young guy. Did not "Get" half of the lessons till later in life, but they were all there right in front of my eyes.
I dug up a bunch of cool sites related to food plotting and small acreage land management. here are a few others........
V. good on food plots with many links and sticky topics to help......
http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=21&page=1
More good stuff.
http://www.kisky.com/forum/default.aspx?f=21
Cool info on Oak mast.
http://www.whitetailstewards.com/ar...tatmanagement/improveacornproductionpart1.htm
Best seed company going. Mix what you want and no BS about small orders.
http://www.welterseed.com/default.aspx
ken
Have the beavers moved back in yet? Seems like that place could be a sweet little retreat if there was some standing water in Jan.
Have the beavers moved back in yet? Seems like that place could be a sweet little retreat if there was some standing water in Jan.
S Stevenson
Member
Kenmack, I dont know if you have Big Lot stores where you live, we hgave them in Bham, but in the past I have bought pear and apple trees from them real cheap, I dont remember the exact price. We planted them on our farm for the deer. We bought them at the end of the planting season(early summer) and they were deeply discounted from the original price. I doubt you would find any now but it wouldnt hurt to go to some nursurys or big box stores and see if they would discount any trees they have. Even if you buy a nursery tree it will be several years before you get a significant amount of fruit. Steve
Tom Wall
Well-known member
Ken,
Michael gave you the details on stratificiation. The seeds will need the cold treatment to germinate. The important thing is to not let them dry out. Drying out will increase the time to germination by one or more additional years. Not all seeds will germinate the first year either. This is a natural defense mechanism to overcome a dry year.
Don't overlook the persimmon trees. The deer down on Florida would eat what the coons dropped.
To help rejuvenate older trees prunning, as has been mentioned, is vital. Sunlight is the key to productivity. So, look at prunning/removing other trees in the woods that might shade a fruit tree. Even a coulpe of more hours of sunlight a day can make a big difference. Fertilize too. A coffee can of 10-10-10, or other balanced fertilizer, evenly spread under the dripline of a larger tree will help. If you can find calcium nitrate that works good too.
When prunning think about providing as much sunlight as possible to the branches that will be left. Removing the center is often the easiest and quickest way. It may not be the best though. When choosing a branch to remove look at the crotch angles, the angle a brach comes off the main trunk. The wider the crotch angle the stronger it is. Think about removing branches with less than a 45 degree crotch angle.
One thing about prunning, the more you do the more you will have to do in the future. Prunning will cause a lot of new growth that will result in decreased production if not prunned again. For wildlife you can probably prune a tree everyother or every third year.
Fruit production will be just like acorns. You will have heavy and light years. It is not unusual to have a big crop after a dry year.
Choosing planting locations carefully and you will produce a lot of food and make it easy to place stands.
Tom
Michael gave you the details on stratificiation. The seeds will need the cold treatment to germinate. The important thing is to not let them dry out. Drying out will increase the time to germination by one or more additional years. Not all seeds will germinate the first year either. This is a natural defense mechanism to overcome a dry year.
Don't overlook the persimmon trees. The deer down on Florida would eat what the coons dropped.
To help rejuvenate older trees prunning, as has been mentioned, is vital. Sunlight is the key to productivity. So, look at prunning/removing other trees in the woods that might shade a fruit tree. Even a coulpe of more hours of sunlight a day can make a big difference. Fertilize too. A coffee can of 10-10-10, or other balanced fertilizer, evenly spread under the dripline of a larger tree will help. If you can find calcium nitrate that works good too.
When prunning think about providing as much sunlight as possible to the branches that will be left. Removing the center is often the easiest and quickest way. It may not be the best though. When choosing a branch to remove look at the crotch angles, the angle a brach comes off the main trunk. The wider the crotch angle the stronger it is. Think about removing branches with less than a 45 degree crotch angle.
One thing about prunning, the more you do the more you will have to do in the future. Prunning will cause a lot of new growth that will result in decreased production if not prunned again. For wildlife you can probably prune a tree everyother or every third year.
Fruit production will be just like acorns. You will have heavy and light years. It is not unusual to have a big crop after a dry year.
Choosing planting locations carefully and you will produce a lot of food and make it easy to place stands.
Tom
Bob - I was brought up in W PA but out MA ackerage was in Granville. We sold it in the mid-90s. Have not been back. There were fair numbers of grouse around. With MA virtually outlawing trapping I'd expect there to be a ton of wood duck/puddleduck opportunities now.
Granville is "between". Not close emough to NYC for the weekend people to have discovered it.
Granville is "between". Not close emough to NYC for the weekend people to have discovered it.