quick question

Chris S.

Well-known member
I put a seal coat of epoxy on my BBSB Rebuild. I know I need to sand this before I put the glass and more epoxy on. I feel a slick greesy waxy feeling on the epoxy I am guessing its blush. Do I need to wash first then sand or sand then wash or will sanding alone get rid of the blush. I was thinking it can't hurt to do both but in what order or does it matter thanks
 
Wash the blush off first, otherwise ya just sand the blush into the epoxy, not a good thing. I used Raka& it never blushed, so I can't tell ya how to wash it off. If ya do a search you should come up with how or what to use to remove the blush.
Dennis
 
High humidity causes blush to be worse then when it is dry. Wash it off with water and then sand.
 
I have seen resins listed as blush or non-blush. Is it a waxy additive they put in the resins, and if so why. What purpose does it serve? Trip.
 
Sand the blush into the epoxy? First time I have heard that can occur. With the West System epoxy I used, I would get some blush, if it had not kicked well before the evening dew. I found that it loaded my sandpaper some. I did use the warm water and scotchbrite pad too, but if it is not bad, I just hit it with the orbital. I would caution if wetting the surface with water, then make sure it is good and dry before you start the next application. Set it in the sun a couple hours to bake it good and dry.

Blush is not an additive, it is result of the chemical reaction and humidity.... creates some amine... I am a ME, not a Chem E! Someone else will describe it better!

I am using a new epoxy this year...don't know the maker as I got it from a lister in bulk.... and I got a little blush, but not enough to cause me any concerns.... maybe I will use an extra sanding disc?

Dave
 
I am a ME, not a Chem E! Someone else will describe it better!
You are a Methodist, Dave? Me, I'm lapsed RC but, frankly, I don't know where religion comes into this discussion. Why can't we all just get along? It's enough to make one 'blush'.

Yep - slow afternoon for sitting in the office looking out at the sun...

Best,
Dano
 
I am a ME, not a Chem E! Someone else will describe it better!
You are a Methodist, Dave? Me, I'm lapsed RC but, frankly, I don't know where religion comes into this discussion. Why can't we all just get along? It's enough to make one 'blush'.

Yep - slow afternoon for sitting in the office looking out at the sun...

Best,
Dano

Hahaha . . .
 
You really don't need to remove the blush if you're going to put on more resin. But if you're going to sand to level everything then removing the blush will save a lot of sandpaper. I've found that amonia is the fastest way to remove it.
 
You really don't need to remove the blush if you're going to put on more resin. But if you're going to sand to level everything then removing the blush will save a lot of sandpaper. I've found that amonia is the fastest way to remove it.


I thought that the blush would not let the other coats of epoxy adhear aswell. I would think that a greesy waxy substance would not be good between coats of epoxy. I thought thats why you don't let the epoxy fully cure between coats so you don't have to wash and sand. Is all this not true?
 
Everything you ever wanted to know about blush! (and probably some you didn't)

http://www.huntsman.com/performance_products/Media/Blushing_of_Amine-cured_Epoxy_Resins.pdf

As far as cleanup goes this information is found on page 13...

Be careful when re-coating. In some instances where blush has caused poor inter-coat adhesion, washing the blush from surfaces prior to re-coating has reportedly been beneficial.[22] Subsequent operations may reveal the best washing method. Some applicators just use plain water whereas others add some citric acid or vinegar to it, presumably to ionize free amines to the salts and increase their water solubility or dispersibility. Other data suggest that even thorough washings may leave behind a polymer surface that is high in diol and more susceptible to the effects of moisture sorption.[20]
 
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Everything I've done with epoxy has been west system. I never had a problem laying fresh resin over the blush. Maybe other brand have different characteristics. You might consider buying the West System boat building book. It's worth the $50 or so they get for it. Blush feels greasy or waxy but it's actually a amine compund that coming out of the resin during the cure cycle. New resin would disolve it. Once you have the cloth on you'll want to fill the wave pattern before sanding. Just squegee on layers of resin and don't worry about the blush. When you get to the point your going to sand the clean off the blush to save the sandpaper
 
Everything I've done with epoxy has been west system. I never had a problem laying fresh resin over the blush. Maybe other brand have different characteristics. You might consider buying the West System boat building book. It's worth the $50 or so they get for it. Blush feels greasy or waxy but it's actually a amine compund that coming out of the resin during the cure cycle. New resin would disolve it. Once you have the cloth on you'll want to fill the wave pattern before sanding. Just squegee on layers of resin and don't worry about the blush. When you get to the point your going to sand the clean off the blush to save the sandpaper


I don't agree, blush should be removed from cured epoxy.

From West System web site (http://www.westsystem.com/ss/surface-preparation/):

"Special preparation for various materials

Cured epoxy- Unless you're using WEST SYSTEM's blush-free 207 Special Clear Hardener, amine blush may appear as a wax-like film on cured epoxy surfaces. It is a by-product of the curing process and may be more noticeable in cool, moist conditions. Amine blush can clog sandpaper and inhibit subsequent bonding, but this inert substance can easily be removed.

To remove the blush, wash the surface with clean water (not solvent) and an abrasive pad, such as Scotch-brite(TM) 7447 General Purpose Hand Pads. Dry the surface with paper towels to remove the dissolved blush before it dries on the surface. Sand any remaining glossy areas with 80-grit sandpaper. Wet-sanding will also remove the amine blush. If a release fabric is applied over the surface of fresh epoxy, amine blush will be removed when the release fabric is peeled from the cured epoxy and no additional sanding is required.

Epoxy surfaces that have not fully cured may be bonded to or coated with epoxy without washing or sanding. Before applying coatings other than epoxy (paints, bottom paints, varnishes, gelcoats, etc.), allow epoxy surfaces to cure fully, then wash and sand."


 
I did wash with dish soap and water with a greenie weenie and when it dried I did not feel the greesy wax stuff anymore I then sanded and put my glass and fill coats down. Better safe then sorry for me it took 20 min maybe I did it 2 times and rinsed well so make sure all soap was gone thanks guys
 
I did wash with dish soap and water with a greenie weenie and when it dried I did not feel the greesy wax stuff anymore I then sanded and put my glass and fill coats down. Better safe then sorry for me it took 20 min maybe I did it 2 times and rinsed well so make sure all soap was gone thanks guys


Yep, a good practice and good insurance.
 
When I used West Systems stuff outside, the blush was really impressive when the dew point occurred around 10 pm. It would gum up in a Scotchbrite pad when I washed the surfaces with soap and water. I am using MarinEpoxy now and haven't had any blush, but I only work in my garage. That being said, all epoxies, even those that are labeled as non-blushing, can still blush a little bit if the conditions are right. Everything I have ever read said that blush will impair the bond between layers and must be removed. I wipe all hard surfaces down with acetone prior to laying any new coat of epoxy or paint. If I feel blush, I will wipe it down before I start sanding. Even in the absence of blush, wiping down with acetone prior to applying anything is a good practice to get rid of skin oil, tool grease, butter from your breakfast biscuit, etc.

You don't need to let every layer kick before you lay the next coat. Let the first layer sit 20 minutes or so and then lay the next layer. For instance, when glassing the bottom, roll on your neat coat of epoxy, wait 20 min, fill defects, wait 20 min, lay your cloth, wait 20 min, fill the weave. That way blush doesn't get a chance to rise to the surface. I like fillets to gets a little harder, but I still want the weave of the tape to press into the fillet. By working wet-on-wet whenever possible, you can skip a lot of sanding and prep work and get a thinner/stronger lamination.

Nate
 
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