Sugar Pine Bleed - Assist Requested

[Steve Froelich]

So, I carved a couple of Sugar Pine ducks. Nice stuff to work with. Carves like cedar and smells great. I had never worked with Pine and had an opportunity to add some to my luggage. It is kiln dried, perfectly clear and from a reputable source supplying Sugar Pine to West Coast carvers for years

So Here is the Problem

Sealed with two coats of shellac. Put 1 coat black ronans followed by a lighter (in color) undercoat.


Its been sitting on the table for two days and to my surprise, the paint shows little dark spots where the sap/oils from the pine seem to have reacted with paint. Almost as if the shellac never covered it in the first place. Nothing wipes off so its not on the surface (yet??).


My instinct tells me to get stripper and take the Ronans down to the shellac and find a different sealer for an additional coat.
Anyone with experience in Pine, specifically sugar pine have any ideas.

Thanks

 

[Eddie Kershaw]

Steve
Im not to sure on this one but I will make a stab at it, it could be that the shalack has not sealed the grain properly and may have formed little air holes that you can not see with the naked eye, If I was you I would strip it down and reseal it with sanding sealer thinned down with ceulose thinners on a 50-50 per cent mix, I would also give it 2 coats with a light sanding in between.
Take care and God Bless
Eddie and Amber
Its all about Building that Bond.

 

[jode hillman]

Steve, Doesn't sound good. If it's kiln dried well it should not bleed at all. I'd check the moisture % it is known for pieces to miss the kiln.

I'd strip it down and hit it lightly with a torch to burn off any sap near the surface. Re-seal.....and paint.

 

[Eddie Kershaw]

Jode
Thats the trouble in my veiw when stock is kiln dried it take the moister content out of the stock to fast you car,t beat properly season stock that as had a few years to season.
Take care and God Bless
Eddie and Amber
Its all about Building that Bond.

 

[Wispete]

Steve, A thing to note about kiln dried. For furniture (or decoys ) The sap moisture is brought down too around 3% The amberant moisture where you live might be 10% so the wood absorbs moisture until its 10% All is fine.

Now construction lumber. You know that 2 by 4 You bought that was really straight, then in two or three weeks went every which way.( bowed and twisted ) That lumber was kiln dried too but not down to 3% So it is still drying. It was only dried to reduce shipping weight. Once in a while you can luck out and find some that has been brought down in moisture content.

 

[Ron Jones]

3% is DRY!! I usually measure anything from 7-10% when I get kiln dried lumber. I am reasonably certain that 3% Pine would be like a matchstick.

I have not worked with sugar pine, but I have experienced what you are going through with maple. I would try a commercial sealer. It penetrates the wood and actually "seals" the pores as opposed to shellac which acts as a barrier between the wood and the finish. I built some maple shelves that bled without any sealer, just through the poly finish. A coat of sealer worked wonders.

Ron

 

[jode hillman]

Most all the kiln dried wood I've bought ( be it soft or hard) comes in between 6-9 percent.

As for soft woods when you kiln dry to a specific temp you not only remove moisture, but "vaporize " sap up to that point.

IE if you kiln dry soft wood to a standard 165-180 degree, the sap will not flow until the wood reaches that temp or above.

In softwoods moisture content and sap content are related but not exactly the same thing. It's easy to get wood to air dry (moisture) but that doesn't help you with the sap ( which is what ruin's paint jobs.........)

 

[Pat Gregory]

Steve - Also depends on when the wood was cut. Here in Illinois and in the northwoods, we have to cut our white pine in February. Too much later than that and the sap begins to flow...