Two-Tier Bag Limits Coming?

Eric Patterson

Eric Patterson

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As I'm researching a possible freelance hunt on the Missouri River, I came across the "Two-Tier" bag limit adopted as a pilot program in Nebraska and South Dakota through 2025. In a nutshell when a hunter fills out their HIP survey, they select what bag limit system they want to use all season. It goes like this, tier one is the traditional six bird limit with species and sex restrictions, e.g. no more than two hen mallards. Tier two is a three-bird limit of any species and any sex. E.g. three hen mallards or three redheads. The hunter CAN NOT switch between the two during the season. You choose one at the time you fill out your HIP survey and go with it all season.

Evidently the driver for this new bag limit system is bird identification skills. New hunters struggle with this part of the sport so by offering a three-bird bag with no sex/species restrictions the hunter is relieved of possible ramifications for violating the traditional bag limit. This gives them time to develop duck ID skills needed for the traditional bag limit.

I'll be honest, I kind of like it. Seems like it could benefit aging duck hunters or those with visual acuity issues. It's a very simple and straightforward process for the hunter to choose. A couple downsides I can think of is there may be some hard-core diver hunters who will gladly accept tier two so they can harvest three bluebills, cans, or redheads a day. Perhaps measures will be put in place to prevent this, assuming needed. Also, I can see it being a headache for law enforcement. Imagine checking bags for a group of hunters using both tiers. It would be really easy to hide transgressions, not that it isn't easy already under the current system.

I don't know if this two-tier system is headed for other states, but the USF&WS must be considering it. What are your thoughts? What bag will you choose if given the choice? Concerns?

Eric
 
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I could see some people down here liking the three bird limit option, but I think it could be problematic because most of those people are diver hunters out on the Gulf....so redheads, cans, bluebills could potentially be hammered like you said.
 
That is definitely what would happen for us. We often sit after our first Bluebill and watch them land in the decoys for something else to show. We see birds in shifts/waves. Early Cans, then Bluebills and Redheads, and then only Bluebills until the season goes out.
 
I'd be shocked if it becomes a choice nationwide. Around here the broadbill would be targeted, but more importantly the black ducks would be crushed. I'm not sure which option I'd take, but would at least be tempted by the any three limit.
 
I'm guessing this pilot two tiered option received approval from USFWS?

I've been duck hunting for 45 years, if I can't ID the duck, I don't shoot the duck. Same goes for rooster pheasant, gobblers, whitetails....ID before pulling the trigger or releasing the arrow.

So a fella who can't ID ducks opts to shoot 3 of anything per day so he could kill 3 hen mallards, 3 Blackducks, Bluebill, Broadbill or Pintail each and every day? Hens / drakes doesn't matter? I understand the goal of increasing hunter participation but you're potentially damaging long term duck production right?

I'm sure folks brainstormed on ideas to increase duck hunter numbers, this was the best they could do?
 
If I were back in Mobile and had this choice, it would be a tough one to make. If I only hunted Mississippi Sound, I'd take the 3 of any bird for days when it's all redheads or all greater scaup. ,
But up on Mobile BayI'd rather have 6 with species limits for days when it's a mixed bag or all gaddies.
 
Eric Patterson said:
Evidently the driver for this new bag limit system is bird identification skills. New hunters struggle with this part of the sport so by offering a three-bird bag with no sex/species restrictions the hunter is relieved of possible ramifications for violating the traditional bag limit. This gives them time to develop duck ID skills needed for the traditional bag limit.

Eric
Click to expand...

It may give them the time, but there may be or may not be, the incentive. If one rarely sees more than a few birds any given day of the season, the easy way (greatest incentive) is to shoot the first three ducks that come along and continue to doo that season after season. Three ducks every time you go out, might be a better average bag, than being restricted in a more structured manner.

I can see many many folks choosing the 3 duck just for the simplicity, yet the 6 bird limit is structured more for the both the success of the hunter AND the success of future bird numbers.

Now if the new 3 bird system is only available for one season, and only for first time waterfowl hunters (if you had any previous years waterfowl lisc., your ineligible), Then I could see it as a way to get new hunters (adult as well as youth) into the sport of waterfowl hunting.
 
I could see the benefits of this program for newer hunters. Bird ID on the wing is skill learned with experience and time a field and this would give guys getting into the sport some wiggle room while they learn.

That being said I would see this being a massive failure on the east coast. I recall the NJDFW surveying hunter interest about this very subject some years back. If I recall correctly it was an offer for a 4 bird limit with no species restrictions EXCEPT for black ducks and pintail. Those species would still be restricted to 2 and 1 birds respectively. Well black ducks make up a very big portion of our puddle duck bags here with nearly all other puddle duck species with the exception of mallards (already a 4 bird limit) and green wing teal being much less wide spread. And it would seem that for us that the pintail and gadwall areas of the state have considerable overlap. So a newer hunter could theoretically shoot a pintail first thing then still have the very real possibility of mistaking a hen pintail for a hen gadwall later in the morning. Just my thoughts on the subject

I do have to say though that I appreciate the USFWS coming up with new and creative ways to try to increase hunter participation
 
Seems like if one guy in your crew has a 3 bird license , it's an insurance policy against an oops bird. In the old point system there was a lot of reshuffling the deck. I'm not advocating doing that but just trying to expose some potential flaws.
 
All~


Interesting idea. I think I first heard about it in the late '70s or early '80s. Been brewing a long time.


In a similar vein - and about the same time - a Midwestern colleague described a simplified - and unsanctioned - ID system:


1. Greenhead Mallards
2. Bluebills - which includes both Scaups, Redheads, Ringnecks, Pintails, Wigeon, probably Buffleheads....
3. Everything else is a "Hen Mallard"


Enjoy!


SJS

 
It's being conducted as an experiment to see if it accomplishes the goal of hunter recruitment. I don't remember but there may be a limited time period that an individual can be a tier 2 hunter. There will be an evaluation after the experiment to look at increases in harvest, recruitment success, etc.
 
Regarding harvest data collection, I'm curious if hen vs drake harvest data is collected for the 3 bird limit. I'll have to give the podcast a listen.
 
For the ethical hunter, maybe a good thing. For the unethical hunter, they will choose the 6 bird limit an still shoot everything that comes in range and will stash the birds that don't fit what is allowed in the bag.

For me, keep the 6 bird limit just because of where I hunt and what I see. I could shoot 3 hen mallards everytime I went out and I just think that would be bad for that population and may others.

Just an opinion.

Mark
 
Well, I do have this choice and I chose the traditional limit. When I first saw this option I thought that if I was going all the time I may take the 3 bird limit just to get odd limits. There are times when 3 Cans, Bluebills, Redheads or Pintails could be easy in some areas. That's not what it is meant for but that is honestly what I thought. I could definitely see it as a bonus for a diehard diver hunter.
It may be well intentioned but a lot of things start out that way. I do bet there are some guys who will have their kids choose the 3 bird limit so they can put those 'extra' ducks on them. Not much different than the old point system days.

In reality the 3 bird limit would work for me now since the only ducks I've shot recently have been incidentals while pheasant hunting.

Tim
 
I don't think they should monkey with the regulations.

If people shoot too many hens or too many divers etc, they play the game and take their chances of getting in trouble for it should an officer stop them.

If you can not identify your target, you shouldn't shoulder your shotgun on it.

I do think that an officer should be given the leeway of taking into account any special circumstances and just issuing a warning for a first violation, but if a guy goes out and blasts 6 pinners, it is a different story.
 
Todd & others

Like I mentioned above I like the idea, but REALLY like the way they are going about it. That being a pilot study with data collected to assess the impact on harvest. That aspect really appeals to me. Experimentation, data collection and analysis, inference, and finally decisions based on real-world information. I'd call that good science and the best managers can do. Far better than conjecture and opinion!

I've seen policies implemented on manager hunches and hunter cries and not hard data and it sucks when you doubt their decision was a good one and denies opportunity. That happened on our local WMA where hunting was shut down during mid-week. A comprehensive study was done after the fact by an Auburn grad student in conjunction with the state using data collected with drones over several years. They counted ducks on the WMAs and refuges and gathered a large amount of data. Final analysis showed there was no increase in waterfowl activity on the WMAs during the no-hunting days. I sure would have liked a pilot run on this no mid-week policy before it became a regulation that eliminated hunting opportunity and forced hunting on crowded weekends with no benefit to waterfowl.

Eric
 
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