Todd Duncan Tennyson
Well-known member
Maybe the ducks overheard that the WMA was closed mid week so they kept on flying.
Two-Tier Bag Limits Coming?
- Thread starter Eric Patterson
- Start date
Eric Patterson said:
Certainly not the same as your local WMA, but a number of east-coast states have no hunting on Sunday. CT, ME, MA are states I hunt where it's closed Sunday. I've often wondered if there is a positive effect to having a rest day. I'm not sure, there have been instances where I thought so but some other factor such as weather may have been in play.
Sunday closure teeters on repeal in CT, they allow limited deer bowhunting on private land now. For selfish reasons I'm OK with no Sunday hunting, because I can hunt when I want anyway. If I do get the itch on Sunday I can drive to RI in 1/2 hour. The other more practical reason is that the Sundays lost don't count toward the season maximum. So the season lasts a calendar week or more longer that adjacent states where Sunday hunting is permitted. Some years that puts a part of the season in favorable weather conditions other states miss. If Sunday hunting is ever permitted, the "extra" week(s) are lost forever so I'm a vote for status quo.
David Clites
Active member
Make the 3-duck limit good for only the first 1-3 years a hunter buys a license in that state. Allows new hunters to learn skill in identifying but prevents abuse by seasoned hunters. Still some potential abuse by seasoned hunters who go to states where they never hunted before while claiming they don't know a Pintail from a Scaup . But the number of abuses by these folks would be small compared to letting a hunter use the 3 duck limit every day for many seasons in their home (or near to home) state.
It wouldn't be very difficult to program this into the IT system that all states use for licensing now. Just add a counting feature associated with your Customer ID. No more complicated than Points System for Big Game, etc
It wouldn't be very difficult to program this into the IT system that all states use for licensing now. Just add a counting feature associated with your Customer ID. No more complicated than Points System for Big Game, etc
Vince Pagliaroli
Well-known member
Having spent 60 1/2 years in PA (No Sunday Hunting) in my personal and others I know opinion. Monday hunting is/was a must go. Prior to retirement Monday was always my day off with either Tuesday or Weds. the other day off. Having lived in western NY since 2010 (Sunday Hunting) that is certainly not the case. Mondays are like all other days considering hunting pressure and the effects on wildlife.
Being able to hunt seven days a week opens opportunity. Quality not so much. I prefer No Sunday hunting. The places I waterfowl hunt/hunted in Canada also No Sunday Hunting. Rest days do pay off.
Seeing game increases hunter participation.
my 2 cents
SJ Fairbank said:
Certainly not the same as your local WMA, but a number of east-coast states have no hunting on Sunday. CT, ME, MA are states I hunt where it's closed Sunday. I've often wondered if there is a positive effect to having a rest day. I'm not sure, there have been instances where I thought so but some other factor such as weather may have been in play.
Sunday closure teeters on repeal in CT, they allow limited deer bowhunting on private land now. For selfish reasons I'm OK with no Sunday hunting, because I can hunt when I want anyway. If I do get the itch on Sunday I can drive to RI in 1/2 hour. The other more practical reason is that the Sundays lost don't count toward the season maximum. So the season lasts a calendar week or more longer that adjacent states where Sunday hunting is permitted. Some years that puts a part of the season in favorable weather conditions other states miss. If Sunday hunting is ever permitted, the "extra" week(s) are lost forever so I'm a vote for status quo.[/quote]
I am joking, but Maine's Sunday hunting ban has probably kept me from getting divorced. If I could hunt 2 days every weekend I would be in big trouble.
We see several bills every year to allow Sunday hunting, and they never go anywhere. The state's large landowners are firmly opposed and lobby the hell out of every bill to allow Sunday hunting. Lodges and guides build their schedules around 1 week trips with Sunday as the turnover day.
The divorce theme has been common for as long as I can remember. My dad always chuckled about it. Thinking about the various guys I've hunted with, and their wives who don't hunt, I'm quite sure there is some basis to think it would be true. I'm fortunate mine likes to hunt (warm weather only), but Sunday does tend to be a chores day.
I hope ME stays as is. There's road hunting traffic jams on Saturdays now. No need to invite still more people into the woods for a 25 mph hunt. Let them stay home Sundays and play on their phones. As you say, there's a delicate balance between the sportsmen and landowners. Sunday hunting could upset that balance with the small as well as large landowners, quickly reducing public access.
I am joking, but Maine's Sunday hunting ban has probably kept me from getting divorced. If I could hunt 2 days every weekend I would be in big trouble.
No secret that duck hunting was a significant factor in the demise of my first marriage.
The lack thereof may be a factor if my second one ends......
[huh]
[whistle]
Jim Donofrio
Member
Tier I is the current traditional six-duck limit with species and sex restrictions. Tier II is a three-duck limit with no species or sex restrictions.
Nationally, duck hunter numbers have fallen nearly 44% since 1990, resulting in a loss of 464 duck hunters per year in Nebraska since that time. A recent survey conducted by Game and Parks, South Dakota Game, Fish & Parks, and the University of Nebraska-Lincoln has determined that duck identification skills are a major factor preventing potential hunters from coming on board. The two-tier regulations are an effort to combat the problem. This is their pathetic rationale
So I was brought up believing to be a duck hunter you have to identify your birds. Now I see why they are doing this . Everyone gets a trophy just like in school sports now you don't have to learn to be excellent just participate and you get the trophy What a pathetic system true wokeism invading duck hunting now., this is so disgusting to me letting the incompetent shoot 3 of anything.
Vince Pagliaroli
Well-known member
NY has a waterfowl ID course that must be taken to hunt on public areas. When I moved here I had to take the course, and it was well worth it. The course is very well presented, interesting and educational no matter if your a new waterfowl hunter or a old timer. The courses are offered only at certain times and places. If they were offered in schools and other places it would very much help interest in waterfowling.
I often wonder IF NY ever had a Dove Season a ID course would be a must. Having lived in PA for so many years and being a ardent Dove hunter mabbe I could help with that. Help pay it forward as Dove hunting is one of the best ways to bring new Wing Shooters into the fold.
my 2 cents
Jim Donofrio
Member
Welcome to the new participation trophy management for duck hunting
I'll play devils advocate.
Were any of us experts at identifying ducks on the wing when we first started?
Did we all have a skilled mentor to help and teach us the skills we have now?
Did none of us make mistakes during the first few years? Or even now?
If giving new hunters a couple of years to learn the ropes, with reduced bag limits, brings new blood into the sport, I don't see the harm. But don't let anyone who's completed a HIP survey for ducks more than twice qualify. And make it clear it's a short term, "probationary" deal. Make them take a ID class too.
I don't see it as a participation trophy. They are still going to need to learn the skills all of us learned over our lifetimes if they are going to continue.
And if this is not a good solution, what is???
Were any of us experts at identifying ducks on the wing when we first started?
Did we all have a skilled mentor to help and teach us the skills we have now?
Did none of us make mistakes during the first few years? Or even now?
If giving new hunters a couple of years to learn the ropes, with reduced bag limits, brings new blood into the sport, I don't see the harm. But don't let anyone who's completed a HIP survey for ducks more than twice qualify. And make it clear it's a short term, "probationary" deal. Make them take a ID class too.
I don't see it as a participation trophy. They are still going to need to learn the skills all of us learned over our lifetimes if they are going to continue.
And if this is not a good solution, what is???
Jim Donofrio
Member
I love golf also so I guess the USGA should give you 3 shots at the tee box to get a good drive too and let me catch three under size fluke and sea bass too while we are at catering to a generation of people who don't want things the hard way just go on the internet and get it all . So who are we recruiting? not the type hunter I want to see
Carl said:
If they are going this route, I like Carl's suggestion. Also a required waterfowl ID class to buy a state duck stamp.
The justification for this seems to be that duck ID skills are a factor in declining duck hunter numbers. It's certainly part of the learning curve. Does anyone know if duck hunting numbers are declining faster than other hunting? And if so, that duck ID is the barrier, rather than lack of hunting opportunity or some other factor. Just watching what's happened here in a rural state with great laws protecting public access to the water, I've got to think lack of access is a factor, especially in more populated states. Combine heavy coastal and lake-front development with laws that allow for a lot of private leases on the remaining huntable habitat, a new duck hunter is going to either need deep pockets, a high tolerance for crowding in with strangers shooting guns over their heads, or a PHD in navigating blind drawings and other other mechanisms to get low-cost access to public areas with restrictive access rules that prevent the crowding.
That would be enough for me to look to get into hunting through archery for deer in the suburbs where everyone encourages me to fill the freeze and thanks me for saving their landscaping before I bought a boat and decoys.
Jim Donofrio
Member
Carl, the good solution is leave it be and take time to mentor a hunter the old fashioned way This will create more skybusting and other issues believe me
Richard Lathrop
Active member
It would not be hard to develop a shoot/no-shoot computer application to require that new shooters pass prior to obtaining a license. Also I thought bans on Sunday hunting besides religious reasons where to accommodate the public access to the parks without concern of getting shot.
Rick Lathrop
Rick Lathrop
Rick Pierce
Well-known member
I get that people are not very good with their duck ID on the wing. Surprisingly, down here in Arkansas you'd think every hunter would be amazing, but they aren't. And ID is a perishable skill...you don't hunt as much, don't see as many birds for a year or two, and it gets rusty. I've called things wrong before, especially at first light, and probably will again too. I wish I was perfect, but I'm not.
The issues that I have "agin it" are most of what has been said here...what will the impact be on pintail, cans, and bluebill/broadbill? We are already close to losing the pintail season; people killing three a day, hens or drakes, isn't going to help. Further, I can see that the "average" take might be more...a guy shoots three cans every time out for a week, three bluebills, three pintails, or three single hen mallards that drop in when he would shoot one and wait the rest of the day without another species coming by. Splash the first three ducks, or try to wait and ID...and if people play the game, they will have guys with the 3-bird and guys with the 6, so they can figure out limits at the blind. There are always some who would rather work harder to game the system than to just work within it.
If this is something that would be enacted, I'm along the lines of the rest...either allow it for youth hunters 16 and under, or for one year as an option if you've never purchased a waterfowl stamp in the State. The only other choice I might give is to hunters over, say, 70 years of age...you can't kill as many, but you can kill what you want and not have to worry. But I'll argue that if you're going with a guide service, then you should not have the option. You shoot the 6-bird restriction.
I don't see duck ID as a reason people aren't hunting ducks. I do see people fed up with public ground and lack of access; Kansas, for example, is working hard to limit out of state hunters on public ground beginning in the 2024-2025 season...limiting them to hunting public only Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday. I see people fed up with lease prices going beyond the reach of the average group of hunters, and land prices accelerating even faster. In Arkansas, land prices are insane, and lease prices are continuing to rise even as our duck seasons get worse, in part because AGFC restricted out of state hunters on our public lands.
Kids are playing travel baseball, soccer, hockey, basketball, along with school team sports like football, track, wrestling, etc. that can occupy families year-round. My niece plays hockey; they practice and play basically 10 months of the year. She wants to learn to fish and hunt, but every weekend in the fall/winter through May is hockey. They will start serious team practices in August, but have already had at least one. If they travel to tournaments, that's three to five days of the week depending on how far away and the size of the tourney. Parents are spending way more money on sports, going to the lake, etc. than ever. Consequently, the majority of people getting into duck hunting aren't the sons and daughters going out with dad and grandpa. They are the college kids invited out with their buddies, or the 20-somethings that want to try it and don't have the mentors...whether they would listen to those mentors or not at 22-25 years old.
The issues that I have "agin it" are most of what has been said here...what will the impact be on pintail, cans, and bluebill/broadbill? We are already close to losing the pintail season; people killing three a day, hens or drakes, isn't going to help. Further, I can see that the "average" take might be more...a guy shoots three cans every time out for a week, three bluebills, three pintails, or three single hen mallards that drop in when he would shoot one and wait the rest of the day without another species coming by. Splash the first three ducks, or try to wait and ID...and if people play the game, they will have guys with the 3-bird and guys with the 6, so they can figure out limits at the blind. There are always some who would rather work harder to game the system than to just work within it.
If this is something that would be enacted, I'm along the lines of the rest...either allow it for youth hunters 16 and under, or for one year as an option if you've never purchased a waterfowl stamp in the State. The only other choice I might give is to hunters over, say, 70 years of age...you can't kill as many, but you can kill what you want and not have to worry. But I'll argue that if you're going with a guide service, then you should not have the option. You shoot the 6-bird restriction.
I don't see duck ID as a reason people aren't hunting ducks. I do see people fed up with public ground and lack of access; Kansas, for example, is working hard to limit out of state hunters on public ground beginning in the 2024-2025 season...limiting them to hunting public only Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday. I see people fed up with lease prices going beyond the reach of the average group of hunters, and land prices accelerating even faster. In Arkansas, land prices are insane, and lease prices are continuing to rise even as our duck seasons get worse, in part because AGFC restricted out of state hunters on our public lands.
Kids are playing travel baseball, soccer, hockey, basketball, along with school team sports like football, track, wrestling, etc. that can occupy families year-round. My niece plays hockey; they practice and play basically 10 months of the year. She wants to learn to fish and hunt, but every weekend in the fall/winter through May is hockey. They will start serious team practices in August, but have already had at least one. If they travel to tournaments, that's three to five days of the week depending on how far away and the size of the tourney. Parents are spending way more money on sports, going to the lake, etc. than ever. Consequently, the majority of people getting into duck hunting aren't the sons and daughters going out with dad and grandpa. They are the college kids invited out with their buddies, or the 20-somethings that want to try it and don't have the mentors...whether they would listen to those mentors or not at 22-25 years old.