Unintended consequences?

Ed Askew

Well-known member
Just came across this, federal wildlife officials are spraying cattails with herbicide to eliminate blackbird habitat, so they don't eat so many sunflowers. Whats the impact on breeding ducks? None? Good? Bad?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080228/ap_on_bi_ge/farm_scene_killing_cattails_2

Ed.
 
Cattails in large amounts aren't all that great for duck ponds. While it gives some cover they can spread very fast and get very thick. In low water years they can choke out a small pond. I've never seen anything that makes me feel that it would be all that bad to kill some off. Much like the blackbirds they hope to control they will never get rid of them all.
I suppose it's better then the poison they use to kill blackbirds.

Tim
 
Can't be good.Don't mess with mother nature.Even though a certain type of vegitation will choke out small ponds.Herbesides used in farming have been extremly detrimental to wildlife over the last 60 years.
 
Thanks for the article reference, Ed.
Interesting and radical approach. I'm am not sure if I am supportive - as the other posters have said: more toxins for the environment and its tough to beat Ma Nature. That being said, this is something that my hunt club might try to learn more about.
We own and manage a 200 acre 'Great Lakes Shoreline' marsh on Lake Ontario (north shore, eh!). Stop me if you've heard this one before about any number of habitats: there used to be many, many marshes ringing the lower Great Lakes but a combination of landfilling and changes to the water management of the Lakes have reduced them significantly. The true 'watershed' (har, har) event was the construction of the St. Lawrence Seaway back in the 50's. Prior to that, there was an extended cycle of drought and flood. Over a decade-long cycle, drought conditions would dry out the marshes and terrestrial plans would take over; then, flood years would happen and the terrestrials would be killed off and emergent and submergent growth would happen. The competition between terrestrial, emergent, and submergent plants helped to maintain biodiversity - all good.
Now, the Seaway dams enable waterlevels to be maintained to optimize shipping. Good for commerce, bad for the marshes (and the flora and fauna that inhabit them). Without the extended cycle, there is no flood/drought and so the dominant competitors of the plant types win - in our case lilypads (submergent), cattails (emergent), and dogwood (terrestrial). Our marsh is slowly filling in - from the borders with dogwood thickets and in the middle with cattail. Each year, our channels and ponds get smaller, the marsh is used less by migrators, and we spend more time hunting divers...
We have sunk (word chosen deliberately) tens of thousands of dollars in building and rebuilding 'water control structures' (aka, a dam) at the outlet of our marsh in attempts to be able to replicate the drought-flood cycle by drawing down the water level in the marsh. We have also channeled and dug ponds in the cattails. But, as our friend says, it is pretty hard to go against Mother Nature...
Actually, one success that we have had is to add a steel-frame fishway to the dam outlet that enables spawning pike to enter and leave but precludes carp. Previously, you could walk across the marsh on the backs of the carp. They feed by rooting and were killing all of the underwater plants and turning the water to a turbid soup. It's really helped to keep them out.
We have asked local biologists about burning over the cattails in winter but have been assured that this would not kill the tuberous root mats. So, I am intrigued that the ND government is endorsing herbicide as a way to kill off cattails.
I am not a big supporter of highly-interventionary tactic, particularly those that send toxins into the environment (hey - remember when people worried about "pollution", not just greenhouse gases?). But thanks again for the article - it is interesting to learn that a radical approach is being tried elsewhere.
All the best,
Dano
 
Don't mess with mother nature.


Sorry but that boat sailed a long time ago. Farming is nature that has been messed with. It sounds great to not want this type of thing to happen but it is the reality of the situation not the ideal we will never again(or ever did) live up to.

btw I would much rather have herbicides sprayed then pesticides, especially when the pesticide kills birds. One or the other is going to be used.

Tim
 
It's all about money. I don't blame the farmers. The prospect of putting Herbicide out is scary.

All you have to do is read the label on the can. I have used it years ago. rubber gloves, respirator,rubber pants,rubber boots. and a thorough wash down later.

I had two buddies that were directly affected by it. One is dead, rare cancer.The other is on disability with a disease unknown in his family. That herbicide was agent Orange.

The same herbicide I used, just a different name.

From what I read the agent Orange had dioxon in it. No safe level of that.

Is herbicide effective, you bet ya.

I just wish there was some other method that was as effective and friendly to the environment. Maybe they will to import thousands of musrats(: )
 
Unfortunatley pesticides (which includes all herbicides, insecticides, rodentcides , etc) are a part of our life. I work in the farming community as an agricultural crop consultant and deal with it daily....recommending rates and unfortunatly having to walk through it at times. I can tell you that the industry has made light year advances in the last 2 decades. From putting out rates of 2-3 pts/acre to now running 0.2 ounces/acres on some chemicals. Trust me the EPA makes it harder and harder to register any chemical that has a detrimental effect on the environment....but we are still dealing with the effects of products such as DDT, chlordane and toxaphene that were used widely in the 50's. These fortunatly are gone forever and we will never see anything like them again. Farmers are required by law to keep strict records of chemicals used and I personally know of some hefty fines that have been levied from that not being done. One of the biggest problem is misuse in the private sector by homeowners. Around 75% (I think that is correct) of all chemicals applied are by homeowners. The biggest one being RoundUp. Most think if 2 oz. works then 4 oz works twice as good. That leads to problems. We are now dealing with weeds that have resistance to RoundUp because of this attitude. If used properly there are Minimal effects to the environment. The problems we see in some areas now are largely the effect of actions taken 40-50 years ago.


That's worth about $0.02 but there may be a little information in there. The industry is trying.
 
When you see bpxed produced that states,"Packed in Texas".Guess what chemicals the contry that grew it uses.
My last trip to Canada ,fall 03,my brother-in -law took me over to a small grass landing strip where a couple crop dusters worked out of.I had never before seen any crop dusting in Canada,and inquired as to what they were dusting ,and with what.They were dusting potatoes with roundup to kill back the vegitation to make it easier to harvest.Roundup goes into the root,which ,in this case, is the potato itself.I hardly eat potatoes,and none from Canada.
 
I would agree that would be aproblem. All fruit and vegetables imparted are sprayed with God knows what in that coutry of origin...DDT in some places believe it or not. I would always attempt to buy American if possible. We oversprayed potatoes in Texas to kill back the vegatation before harvest also but used paraquat (still dnagerous to humans somewhat). It is contact, has a very short residual and not translocated into the root or fruit.
 
I must be missing something here. What's the problem with blackbirds eating sunflowers? Are they nailing some commersial crops nearby or what? And if so, why should my tax dollars be used to destroy habitat so a business can gain more profit? Not that I'm anti business, I have one, just don't want my taxes used that way.

But I sometimes forget reality.
 
Sunflowers are the crop. In the northern plains sunflowers are a major crop on land that is marginal for corn and soy beans. I think I saw where blackbirds eat about 3% of the crop. That might not sound bad but they don't hit fields equally. 20 fields can be left nearly untouched while one nearby can have half of the crop destroyed. The birds can eat the sunflowers before they are mature enough to harvest.

btw The 'habitat' the blackbirds are exploiting is artificially changed already. The amount of cattails is only increasing. Flood control and fertilizer are probably here to stay so controlling native plants is not that much different then controlling deer and geese. It wouldn't surprise me if it is actually beneficial to many waterfowl in the long run.

Tim
 
Controlling cattails in Florida marshes improves habitat for ducks. Here cattails can take over an entire marsh system if left uncontrolled. Very few were here a 100 years ago, but the nutrients added to the watersheds from muck farming, mostly sugarcane, but also root and row crops pollutes the watersheds much like the phosphates in detergents did back in the 60s. 1 pound of phosphorus will grow 500 lbs of vegetation.

Chemicals such as 2,4-D are used to control cattails, but controlled burns are preferred for cost reasons.

Hitch
 
I think they burn phragmites in NJ as well. Here the natives take it into their own hands and burn the marsh every spring. The reason, to harvest wild asparagus.
 
Sounds like we need a rash of careless smokers in certain areas and kids with BB guns in others.

I know, too old fashioned and not expensive enough.

Best,
Harry
 
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