Use of a dog to get up birds

[Keith Bittner]

My son was out on one of the rivers here on Long Island and got 4 geese. He says he used the dog to to get the geese up and they flew over him and they knocked them down. I told him he could not do that with the dog. Is this correct?

 

[Chuck J]

Keith

Interesting question. My initial reaction was that is rallying and it is illegal, however, reading the regulations this is what it says:

Rallying. You cannot hunt waterfowl that have been concentrated, driven, rallied, or stirred up with a motorized vehicle or sailboat

from http://www.fws.gov/le/waterfowl-hunting-and-baiting.html

There are some (one in particular) here that are far more versed in the in's and out's of the exact laws and the regulations written for the public are not the actual laws...they dumb it down for us common folk.

That said, I still wouldn't recommend doing it, at the least you are skirting with the intent of the law, and beyond that it comes down to ethics.

Chuck

 

[Al Hansen]

I'll be interested in what others have to say, also. A few years ago when I had about 700 ducks in and around my decoys and was ready to go home, I sent Pepper and Chili out to chase them away. They were itching to get out there anyways. All I had to say was, "Dead Bird" and they were gone.
My reasoning is that they wouldn't mind seeing a dog because in the course of a life time how many close calls do they have with wolves, fox and coyotes? I just didn't want them to see me because I had plans to be there the next day.
Al

 

[John Augustine]

How is this different than jump-shooting ducks?
When it is slow we routinely have one person walk the back end of the swamp(youngest guy).
He jump shoots the ducks and we station ourselves to get passing shots of birds leaving.
I don't see a difference. John

 

[Carl]

Nothing illegal about it from the federal side as long as you dont use a motorized or sail driven vessel.

Tollers kinda do that same thing, just in reverse.

As long as you have a dog well trained enough that you can control it and get it to break off & come back, I dont see any problem. IMO

 

[Kevin B]

Yes,you can use your dog to put birds in the air. It is the use of the motor that makes it illegal. A well trained dog is and always has been an integral tool of the hunt.

 

[Scott Farris]

Is today April fools day? I can't even conceive of a problem with using dogs to put game up when legally hunting with a dog. In the half dozen or so states I've waterfowled in I've never seen a guide differentiate the actions of a dog. I've never seen a line/statute like "dogs may only be used for retrieving downed game". Either you can hunt with a dog or not. Calling, flushing, paddling you around or retrieving game is assisting in the taking of game. If it is a person, he'd (she) would need a license, with a dog, your simply hunting with a dog. We even have tollers bred & trained especially for drawing ducks in and jumping them up to be shot.

Why would having your dog jump them up be any different than your human buddy walking them up and you shooting at them as they flew out. Legal as long as your buddy's properly licensed & stamped for waterfowling.

Scott

 

[John L]

Keith,

Chuck quoted the regs correctly. However, using your dog to kick up / rally birds may not be illegal by the letter of the law but I would think it may get you into some hot water depending on the law enforcement officer that sees this take place. He may question you and the manner in which you directed your dog to do so.
While I do use my dog, at heal, when we jump shoot some marsh islands it's not exactly like setting up and sending your dog into a flock of birds to direct them to fly over you. That's about as close as I will get to the issue.

I follow a simple rule. If you read and understand the regs and feel that a certain action is questionable then just don't do it. It may not be illegal but ask yourself is it ethical. Then you be the judge.

I guess it all comes down to your morals and what you find acceptable and what is not.
It wil be interesting to see some responses to your question.

 

[tod osier]

My son was out on one of the rivers here on Long Island and got 4 geese. He says he used the dog to to get the geese up and they flew over him and they knocked them down. I told him he could not do that with the dog. Is this correct?

Without a doubt it is illegal if you use a dog to flush geese and then shoot them with a rifle.

T

 

[Carl]

My son was out on one of the rivers here on Long Island and got 4 geese. He says he used the dog to to get the geese up and they flew over him and they knocked them down. I told him he could not do that with the dog. Is this correct?

Without a doubt it is illegal if you use a dog to flush geese and then shoot them with a rifle.

T

How about a laser?

 

[TimJ]

Not a problem at all. You can even send a guy on foot to the other side of a sitting flock and hopefully chase them over the gunners. I'd be happy the dog is that well trained. No different then flushing any bird and shooting it over a dog, just more time between flush and shot. The countless numbers of snipe and woodcock that have been flushed and shot would be considered rallying if a dog chasing birds up so they could be shot was considered illegal.
Like someone else said it is the motor that makes it rallying. Don't train the dog to drive.

Tim

 

[tod osier]

My son was out on one of the rivers here on Long Island and got 4 geese. He says he used the dog to to get the geese up and they flew over him and they knocked them down. I told him he could not do that with the dog. Is this correct?

Without a doubt it is illegal if you use a dog to flush geese and then shoot them with a rifle.

T

How about a laser?

I like the laser idea..., but damn, after thinking about it I was wrong.... I thought of two times that it is illegal for a dog to flush geese for you... first, if the dog is driving a motorized vessel and second if the dog is driving a sail powered vessel.

T

 

[tod osier]

Not a problem at all. You can even send a guy on foot to the other side of a sitting flock and hopefully chase them over the gunners. I'd be happy the dog is that well trained. No different then flushing any bird and shooting it over a dog, just more time between flush and shot. The countless numbers of snipe and woodcock that have been flushed and shot would be considered rallying if a dog chasing birds up so they could be shot was considered illegal.
Like someone else said it is the motor that makes it rallying. Don't train the dog to drive.

Tim

Damn, you beat me to it.

T

 

[TimJ]

Not a problem at all. You can even send a guy on foot to the other side of a sitting flock and hopefully chase them over the gunners. I'd be happy the dog is that well trained. No different then flushing any bird and shooting it over a dog, just more time between flush and shot. The countless numbers of snipe and woodcock that have been flushed and shot would be considered rallying if a dog chasing birds up so they could be shot was considered illegal.
Like someone else said it is the motor that makes it rallying. Don't train the dog to drive.

Tim

Damn, you beat me to it.

T

Yep, just barely. I passed right over the sailing, without thumbs I can't see a dog doing it.

Tim

 

[Tom Scholberg]

How is that different from hunting upland birds (pheasants) with a flushing dog???? Interesting question but I see it fairly clear. No difference. To take it a step further - What about deer drives, driven pheasant shoots and the silly "release and shoot" of pen raised ducks. I know those are legal but it does raise a good question for this forum. Kind of like having lead shot in possession and taking waterfowl. I once had a dog catch a wounded goose while pheasant hunting and learned later could have been busted for it, never mind "making every effort not to waste". Common sense has to kick in sometimes. IMHO using dogs to flush game should be OK but I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn last night

 

[tod osier]

Not a problem at all. You can even send a guy on foot to the other side of a sitting flock and hopefully chase them over the gunners. I'd be happy the dog is that well trained. No different then flushing any bird and shooting it over a dog, just more time between flush and shot. The countless numbers of snipe and woodcock that have been flushed and shot would be considered rallying if a dog chasing birds up so they could be shot was considered illegal.
Like someone else said it is the motor that makes it rallying. Don't train the dog to drive.

Tim

Damn, you beat me to it.

T

Yep, just barely. I passed right over the sailing, without thumbs I can't see a dog doing it.

Tim

That is why getting the dewclaws removed is a mistake.

 

[TimJ]

Not a problem at all. You can even send a guy on foot to the other side of a sitting flock and hopefully chase them over the gunners. I'd be happy the dog is that well trained. No different then flushing any bird and shooting it over a dog, just more time between flush and shot. The countless numbers of snipe and woodcock that have been flushed and shot would be considered rallying if a dog chasing birds up so they could be shot was considered illegal.
Like someone else said it is the motor that makes it rallying. Don't train the dog to drive.

Tim

Damn, you beat me to it.

T

Yep, just barely. I passed right over the sailing, without thumbs I can't see a dog doing it.

Tim

That is why getting the dewclaws removed is a mistake.

Oh like the water isn't crowded enough without dogs sailing.

 

[tod osier]

Not a problem at all. You can even send a guy on foot to the other side of a sitting flock and hopefully chase them over the gunners. I'd be happy the dog is that well trained. No different then flushing any bird and shooting it over a dog, just more time between flush and shot. The countless numbers of snipe and woodcock that have been flushed and shot would be considered rallying if a dog chasing birds up so they could be shot was considered illegal.
Like someone else said it is the motor that makes it rallying. Don't train the dog to drive.

Tim

Damn, you beat me to it.

T

Yep, just barely. I passed right over the sailing, without thumbs I can't see a dog doing it.

Tim

That is why getting the dewclaws removed is a mistake.

Oh like the water isn't crowded enough without dogs sailing.

Would be an improvement as far as blowboater IQ.

 

[TimJ]

Not a problem at all. You can even send a guy on foot to the other side of a sitting flock and hopefully chase them over the gunners. I'd be happy the dog is that well trained. No different then flushing any bird and shooting it over a dog, just more time between flush and shot. The countless numbers of snipe and woodcock that have been flushed and shot would be considered rallying if a dog chasing birds up so they could be shot was considered illegal.
Like someone else said it is the motor that makes it rallying. Don't train the dog to drive.

Tim

Damn, you beat me to it.

T

Yep, just barely. I passed right over the sailing, without thumbs I can't see a dog doing it.

Tim

That is why getting the dewclaws removed is a mistake.

Oh like the water isn't crowded enough without dogs sailing.

Would be an improvement as far as blowboater IQ.

Dogs must already jet ski around here, I've never seen it but I always hear about all the SOB's on them.

Satisfy your repressed off topic cravings yet?

 

[tod osier]

Not a problem at all. You can even send a guy on foot to the other side of a sitting flock and hopefully chase them over the gunners. I'd be happy the dog is that well trained. No different then flushing any bird and shooting it over a dog, just more time between flush and shot. The countless numbers of snipe and woodcock that have been flushed and shot would be considered rallying if a dog chasing birds up so they could be shot was considered illegal.
Like someone else said it is the motor that makes it rallying. Don't train the dog to drive.

Tim

Damn, you beat me to it.

T

Yep, just barely. I passed right over the sailing, without thumbs I can't see a dog doing it.

Tim

That is why getting the dewclaws removed is a mistake.

Oh like the water isn't crowded enough without dogs sailing.

Would be an improvement as far as blowboater IQ.

Dogs must already jet ski around here, I've never seen it but I always hear about all the SOB's on them.

Satisfy your repressed off topic cravings yet?

They aren't repressed. .