Where did the water go?

Scott O.

Scott O.

Well-known member
I like this whole topic of duck migration because it pits (in a very friendly way) one group of experts against another group. It has ties into biology, common sense, history (some of which is passionately familial) as well as the Black OPS drama of unseemly government intervention.

So I have another fun topic for all of us who stand, butt-deep in ice water looking UP and suggest that, for the sake of this topic, we take a moment and look DOWN. I live and hunt in the Great Lakes area, have done so most of my life and as you probably know, the water levels in the Lakes has been historically low the past 15 years or so which extends past its normal up and down cycle. Now when you take the surface area of the five Great Lakes and multiply that by the 30" or so that it is currently down, that is a freakin' LOT of water that seems to have just up and disappeared

If it evaporated then I am fine with that, but it had to precipitate somewhere too didn't it?

(Here it comes)

I accuse the state of Indiana of stealing it thru that little patch of land between Michigan City and East Chicago.

There I've said it.

And Illinois is secretly robbing Lake Michigan thru the Chicago River and selling it as "plain water" to the entire SE section of the U.S all the way to Southern California. Am I leaving anyone out?

Whatdya know about FRESH water Steve? Huh?
 
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Well.....

Water wars now?? out West we have them there thingys......why do you think the 6 shooter was invented?...Wasn't just for the OK Corral...

The ducks carry tiny canteens and carry off a small amount of water every time they pass by the Great Lakes....Then they sale it to the highest bidder farther south......So shoot more ducks and your water will stop disappearing so fast.....

But in all seriousness what do you think the mighty Colorado is out West? It basically functions as a canal moving water southwest into Vegas and California..

Matt
 
I was watching a show I believe on the history channel where they said during the last ice age that the ice was so heavy that it compressed the surface of the earth. After the ice receided the earth is now rebounding and as it rises it pushes the water out of the lakes causing lower levels. As the weight of the water decreases from less depth the rebound speeds up. They also said if there isn't another ice age in the next twelve thousand years that t Niagra falls will erode all the way to lake Erie and all the great lakes will drop 120ft. But they said that they believe there will be another ice age sometime in the next 12k years which will make the great lakes even deeper from the weight of the ice. Just thought you'd like to know.
 
This is totally serious and I just saw it on Discovery so you know it's true. The land around the great lakes is rising. It sounds stupid and you would think "How does land slowly rising make a lake go down a foot or two." Well it does. It changes inlets and outlets also. There may actually be close to the same amount of water in the system even though it looks lower. A mile thick slab of ice packs down the earth below and although it might take 10,000 years it is going to spring back.

Tim

edit to say *And Tom beat me to it* :)
 
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Mark...I juist wanted you to know that if I could understand even one word out of ten that Matt was putting into pixel form that you'd be off the hook from my retorts FOREVER....sadly I have yet to understand one single post of his and other than to continue to wonder if there are ashtrays floating all over his house I just can't pin down what to say to him in response to his posts......

Just thought you'd like to know that....

Steve
 
Steve,

A bit of clarification....
  • Subject was water levels in the Great Lakes headed to California
  • Proposed an alternative solution to stop the level of the Great Lakes from falling ----just something a bit silly ---but it was shooting ducks...
  • Water is a serious business out West and to support such I present a few web links http://protectsnakevalley.com/ - http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=10925211 - People here in Utah feel sold out to the glitz and wealth of Vegas over the Snake Valley project
  • Added a comment on the use of the mighty Colorado River as a canal as it is basically used to move water from parts of Colorado and Utah downstream to Arizona, Nevada, and California. Read - http://www.usbr.gov/lc/region/g4000/wtracct.html - http://ag.arizona.edu/AZWATER/arroyo/101comm.html - (maybe someone was connecting it to the Great Lakes)
  • I work with water resources so at times I may prattle along assuming everyone has some knowledge of what my floating ashtray are....HAHA!!
  • Lastly I freely admit my sense of humor is a bit unusual.....HAHAHA!!
Sincerely,
The Floating Ashtray
Matt
 
re: I take "little" seriously.....

Also note that Scott's reference to water moving from GL's to Ca. was PURELY humerous.......

I'm from the West...I understand "water wars", "water abuse", and other "water" issues.....

My post was made "in jest"....

Steve
 
Isostatic rebound...is happening all over the globe. Where ever glaciers or ice sheets once covered land the land is rebounding a couple of cm a year. There are iron rings on cliffs in fjords over in Norway that vikings used to use to moor their boats. They are well above the water line now.

Eventually the great lakes will have more marshes thanks to the rebounding of the craton making shallow bays. Its a good thing for ducks and water quality.

Of course if the lake level is dropping at a faster rate than the rebound then something else is going on.

Muskrats along the shore line are creating leaks.

All the salmon introduced into the Great Lakes are changing the density of the water making it flow out faster than before.

Lampreys. They are alien species so they must have done something.

Hey my tinfoil hat as sprung a leak and letting in the cold arctic air so I got to go.
 
Colorado River – seriously.
You can’t say the Colorado is being “stolen” by Las Vegas and S. California. That is like saying the furthest downstream recipient of the Mississippi – Louisiana is less deserving of the final run off than say Illinois. A more justifiable complaint would be us in N. CA fussing about watering S. CA lawns via the aqueduct – a man made conveyance that flows through most of our state for the main purpose of shedding water to the S. CA/ LA region. Sure dams happened and so does civilization, but a northern or originating city/state on a waterway cant really claim it to themselves – it would be all those feeding and taking from it. Interestingly – does the glacier of origination of a river own the rights – if so, there would be a lot of people in the states owing the canucks for water.
Saying the Colorado is a water funnel is a bit like saying that the Ocean just keeps on sucking up the Columbia – how dare it. Sounds like time for Wyatt Earp to don some 6 shooters and dam that river up. "whoa that there be my water"
More for thought.
 
Ray,

Don't forget the round goby and maybe next year the Asian carp.....

But do you have communication devices such as antenna attached to your tin foil hat? ET phone home?

The Floating Ashtray
 
Derek,

For years southern Cali ag was using more than was allotted under the Colorado River Compact.....Seem they got caught......

http://www.acwa.com/television/co_river_facts.asp

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]In recent years, California has used as much as 5.37 million acre-feet (MAF) per year, even though its entitlement is only 4.4 maf plus 50% of any declared surplus. Growth in Nevada and Arizona are causing these states to use their full allotments of water, decreasing the surplus water available to California and putting more pressure on the state to live within the 4.4 MAF allotment. Programs to this end range from canal linings to water transfers to new groundwater storage projects, and are essential to achieving the region’s long-term goal of maintaining a reliable supply from the Colorado River.

This is serious business [/font]
 
Steve,,,,

a jest of a joust.......ummmm.....I was jesting also with my dry sense of the funny boone

Matt
 
There truly is a bunch of water being removed from the State by companies/company up in Mecosta County, and bottled. I believe it's over a million gallons a year but I don't recall......might be more.

The Great Lakes water levels are highly cyclic. I've watched Lake St. Clair since '67. That's when I met my wife and we had 28" of water at the end of the dock. In the 70's & early 80's, we had 7 FEET of water at the end of the dock. It's slowly been going down and was around 32" about 8 years ago and is now somewhere around 48" (I forgot to measure it the day we were sculling 2 weeks ago). Now, that's a lot of movement of water but that's not the end of the story. We have a picture of my Father in Law standing where our dock is now and he was on dry ground (mud & cattails) and they had a 1/4 mile long trench going out into the lake to get the boat to open water. That trench (filled with mud & weeds now) actually shows up on Satellite photos I have.

Interestingly enough, the ancient shore line of LSC (by core drillings) is Gratiot Avenue...........between 5 & 7 miles from where the water is now.
Oh....and...I agree.......I think the Indiana'ings are water thieves also. ;)
Lou
 
Mostly caused by hot air drifting upwards from Washington DC.........mostly from the Senate, the House, and the White House......and the occupants....

Second greatest cause........COWS producing methane....

Thus, we have climate change...caused by fermentation.....HAHA!!
 
I knew it sounded like a PBS special - have you ever watched Huell Howser? Not sure I would use him as a primary source point. Ownership of rivers and waterways if possible would be separate from agreements, compliance and regulation or you would have some serious issues with source seeking compensable factors. I think this is a pretty big debate on a state and federal level right now - Colorado Rv. included. My point was begrudging the downstream - and the implication the upstream owned it. Ponder this: if places like N. CA (my area) didn’t funnel water to the central and southern state there would be a LOT of people hungry in the US and world. Look up the AG factors of what that region is producing to the domestic and intl. breadbasket - A LOT!
Fun conversation.
 
Derek

I deal with the fishery issues caused by the transfer of water, mostly T&E......and yes people do eat and water is needed....

Being from N. CA you might be familiar with the Klamath River.... I used to work for the group that did the research that ultimately caused the A canal to be closed in 2001....that group was blamed for using bad science and the impact on the ag community....anyway...long live water wars....it pays my bills HAHA

No I haven't watched that guy on PBS....was looking for a BOR document online and found that...it is fairly accurate in the bare bones facts....Southern CA has been using more water then allocated for years....now pay up time is at hand...

Matt
 
Ok so enlighten me, what is the "pay up" then if it is now their time? I cant imagine what it is and lacking the abilities to be a water expert - I am curious as to what that would be.
Klamath hmmm that could be a good one to discuss. Native/tribal issues on water control and "ownership" and we might get close to your point on original statement of ownership.
 
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