Need advice on shooting a .410 for ducks this year to reduce recoil

P

Patrick Ward

New member
Has anyone shot a .410 extensively for ducks? I broke my clavicle, all the ribs on my right side, and broke off the spinal processes in a serious accident. If I am going to shoot at all this year I need to find a way to minimize the punishment on my body.

Given my injuries, I expect to be given the go-ahead to resume weight-bearing activities sometime in December. Unfortunately, that means that my shoulder will still probably be unable to handle heavier recoil until February or so.

My normal gun is a 20ga Browning Silver. My .410 is a Tristar Viper G2. The .410 has been used as the backup gun the last few years, which means I have barely shot it. I have had success shooting scoters with it, but those shots are very close. In that case, I found that I was able to consistently kill scoters over the decoys shooting bismuth. I was able to cartwheel scoters at distance using tss. I hunt in California, so open spaces are the norm.

My options for .410 shells are steel 6s, TSS 9s, and Bismuth 4s and 6s.

So, has anyone hunted a lot with a .410?
What is the recoil like?
Will I destroy my shoulder again?
For regular ducks how did it do?
Did you develop a strong preference for any specific shell?
 
Patrick~

I shot a Mossberg bolt-action .410 during my first 2 seasons. This is my first Black Duck:

A 01 - SJS First Black Duck - Connetquot River, October 1965.jpg

By age 14 I graduated to larger guns - and have shot ducks, geese and brant with 28, 20, 16 and 12. I think I am now too old and feeble to try a 10-gauge. My .410 years were strictly lead pellets. Most of my bullets were 2-3/4-inch - but I would occasionally slip in a magnum 3-incher - all paper hulls. I believe I relied exclusively upon #4 shot. Now in my 60th season, I have no recollection of ever losing any cripples with my Mossberg - nor even missing any shots....if memory serves me (!) And, I have never felt recoil in any gun whilst actually hunting (but shooting my '06 from a bench is another story altogether!)

Best of luck with your skeleton - and - as my Dad would always advise: Go easy!

All the best,

SJS
 
I hunted ducks with one last Oct after open heart surgery in early Sept. Boss bismuth 5. It was Ok on woodies but not beyond 30 yards. Just not enough BBs in the pattern. If you have to use it spend the money on TSS 9. I used it this spring on turkey with TSS and drilled 2 toms at 35 yards.
 
While I've shot hundreds of thousands of .410's at clay targets, I have very limited experience with it on ducks. Like Steve, my recollection is that all but a couple of attempts was in the old days, shooting lead. If I was going to use a .410 today, the TSS loads are what I'd look at first. No way I'm using steel, not enough pellets in the larger shot sizes to place several hits on the bird.

As far as recoil, that's a function of shot payload, velocity and the weight of the gun. Autos spread the recoil curve a little, so perceived recoil may be further reduced. One way of looking at it is that a 5 pound .410 shooting a 1/2 oz load at 1300 fps would, on paper at least, produce more recoil than a 7 pound 12 shooting the same 1/2 oz at 1300 fps.......assuming the 1/2 oz 12 gauge shell exists (you can actually buy 5/8 oz 12 gauge lead shot shorties made by Aguilla). All that being said, any 1/2 or 5/8 oz load at around 1300 fps is going to have very little recoil compared to your 1 oz. 20 ga loads. FWIW, the 28 with 3/4 oz Bismuth ammo does quite well on ducks.

Best of luck to you, I cringe thinking about shooting with a broken collarbone and ribs. If I was going to try it, I'd look for an 1100 to reduce the recoil as far as possible.
 
Last year I shared a blind with a guy shooting a Tristar Viper G2 410 with a 28" barrel and an extended skeet choke. He was shooting 2.5" 410, 1/2 oz #8 TSS. We were taking turns shooting and it was really fun to watch that little gun crush big ducks and big geese at every bit of 30-35 yards. If I was going to hunt my 410 for waterfowl,I would be using TSS. At the time I calculated there was ~$1.30 of tss in a 1/2 oz load. When I ran the numbers recently, based on price of TSS from Prairie Wind decoys, there would be ~$1.60 of TSS in a 1/2 oz load.
 
I have not used a .410 but have used a 28 gauge shooting bismuth 2 3/4 #4's with great success. Dont recall any issues or concerns with the recoil. I shoot this thru a Benelli SBE and use it mostly for teal and wood duck hunts. Last season shot a limit of ringers with it and stoned all 6.
 
Whatever gun you shoot, the best option is going to be non-factory loads (unless you can find a manufacturer making light waterfowl loads - I haven't seen such).

Starting with shells, the lower the load the lower the recoil... but shell size itself is impactful. Longer shells, relative to shell diameter, deliver more recoil (assuming the same load). In other words, a .410 shell will deliver MORE recoil than a 20g shell if they have the same load - particularly if said .410 weighs less than the 20g.

Given your circumstances, gun weight may also be important... a 12g may simply be too heavy to lift and swing. But, assuming you could lift and swing a 12g, then having some 12g shells made up based on a 28g or 20g standard load would likely yield the least felt recoil possible (and put more pellets/energy on target than your .410). Having some 20g shells made up with a 28g or .410 load would likely be better (recoil-wise) than shooting your .410 with .410 loads.

Personally, if I were in your shoes and I insisted on shooting, I'd try to find a friend to loan me a gas recoil 12 or 20 amd use the lightest load shells I could find or have made up.
 
Take yourself to a range and shoot some clays, you'll see if the 410 will work for you. If you have a 28 try that, you'll have a hard time locating ammo. When you see it, buy it. I like the 28 on nice days [ my clays gun ].
 
The 410 with TSS is plenty capable of taking any species of North American waterfowl. I have killed everything from teal to Sandhill cranes with my tristar 410.

You need to handload your shells to really reduce recoil. No, this isn't as scary as it sounds. All you need is a small digital scale and a roll crimp tool from Gaep/OMV to get started.

You can purchase #9 tss loads but they will likely be max payload turkey shells - not ideal for lowering recoil.

What you need to be shooting is 1/2oz of #9 TSS. This provides plenty of pellet count for medium to large ducks. If you are shooting smaller ducks like teal I would step up to 9/16oz or 5/8oz of #9 TSS to increase your pellet count.

With the 1/2oz, 1400 FPS load in a 5.7lb Tristar you are only producing 9.9 ft lb of felt recoil

1761666051281.png
 
I have a friend who exclusively hunts with a 410. I have personally seen him harvest everything from a green-winged teal to tundra swan with it. I don't know if he hand loads his shells, but the boxes appear to be store bought shells. He is an excellent shot and is quite deadly with that gun. Good luck and get better.
 
SJ Fairbank said:
While I've shot hundreds of thousands of .410's at clay targets, I have very limited experience with it on ducks. Like Steve, my recollection is that all but a couple of attempts was in the old days, shooting lead. If I was going to use a .410 today, the TSS loads are what I'd look at first. No way I'm using steel, not enough pellets in the larger shot sizes to place several hits on the bird.

As far as recoil, that's a function of shot payload, velocity and the weight of the gun. Autos spread the recoil curve a little, so perceived recoil may be further reduced. One way of looking at it is that a 5 pound .410 shooting a 1/2 oz load at 1300 fps would, on paper at least, produce more recoil than a 7 pound 12 shooting the same 1/2 oz at 1300 fps.......assuming the 1/2 oz 12 gauge shell exists (you can actually buy 5/8 oz 12 gauge lead shot shorties made by Aguilla). All that being said, any 1/2 or 5/8 oz load at around 1300 fps is going to have very little recoil compared to your 1 oz. 20 ga loads. FWIW, the 28 with 3/4 oz Bismuth ammo does quite well on ducks.

Best of luck to you, I cringe thinking about shooting with a broken collarbone and ribs. If I was going to try it, I'd look for an 1100 to reduce the recoil as far as possible.
Click to expand...
Hopefully everything is healed by the time I actually can shoot!
 
HenryHawthorne said:
Whatever gun you shoot, the best option is going to be non-factory loads (unless you can find a manufacturer making light waterfowl loads - I haven't seen such).

Starting with shells, the lower the load the lower the recoil... but shell size itself is impactful. Longer shells, relative to shell diameter, deliver more recoil (assuming the same load). In other words, a .410 shell will deliver MORE recoil than a 20g shell if they have the same load - particularly if said .410 weighs less than the 20g.

Given your circumstances, gun weight may also be important... a 12g may simply be too heavy to lift and swing. But, assuming you could lift and swing a 12g, then having some 12g shells made up based on a 28g or 20g standard load would likely yield the least felt recoil possible (and put more pellets/energy on target than your .410). Having some 20g shells made up with a 28g or .410 load would likely be better (recoil-wise) than shooting your .410 with .410 loads.

Personally, if I were in your shoes and I insisted on shooting, I'd try to find a friend to loan me a gas recoil 12 or 20 amd use the lightest load shells I could find or have made up.
Click to expand...
I am nearly certain that a 12 is going to be beyond my lifting abilities, and that is before dealing with the fact that I don't own a 12 and my family long ago standardized on 20s.


Can you clarify why a longer shell delivers more recoil? Is it just because people tend to pack more pellets and powder into the longer shell or is there some other reason?
 
Noah Shaver said:
The 410 with TSS is plenty capable of taking any species of North American waterfowl. I have killed everything from teal to Sandhill cranes with my tristar 410.

You need to handload your shells to really reduce recoil. No, this isn't as scary as it sounds. All you need is a small digital scale and a roll crimp tool from Gaep/OMV to get started.

You can purchase #9 tss loads but they will likely be max payload turkey shells - not ideal for lowering recoil.

What you need to be shooting is 1/2oz of #9 TSS. This provides plenty of pellet count for medium to large ducks. If you are shooting smaller ducks like teal I would step up to 9/16oz or 5/8oz of #9 TSS to increase your pellet count.

With the 1/2oz, 1400 FPS load in a 5.7lb Tristar you are only producing 9.9 ft lb of felt recoil

View attachment 70059
Click to expand...
Thank you! This is super helpful.
 
noweil Mike said:
Last year I shared a blind with a guy shooting a Tristar Viper G2 410 with a 28" barrel and an extended skeet choke. He was shooting 2.5" 410, 1/2 oz #8 TSS. We were taking turns shooting and it was really fun to watch that little gun crush big ducks and big geese at every bit of 30-35 yards. If I was going to hunt my 410 for waterfowl,I would be using TSS. At the time I calculated there was ~$1.30 of tss in a 1/2 oz load. When I ran the numbers recently, based on price of TSS from Prairie Wind decoys, there would be ~$1.60 of TSS in a 1/2 oz load.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I will need to figure out the choke as well. From what I can see, a skeet choke is the right move.
 
Add some weight to that 410 to dampen what recoil there is. And install a Limbsaver pad. Make sure when you add weight to add both front and rear if your satisfied with current balance point. On my Tristar G2 28 gauge I found it a little less barrel heavy than I like so I added an 8 oz. Recoil reducer by Graco to mag cap. Swings perfect for me now and I also needed to shorten L.O.P. to 14" so while I was at it I installed A Limbsaver Pad. Gun doesn,t really recoil at all now that I feel, but swings beautifully for me. I,m going to shoot some ducks with it this year with Bismuth 1 oz. handloads. #4 shot. Patterns great right out to 40 yds. thru an Extended Imp. Mod choke.
 
roy brewington said:
Add some weight to that 410 to dampen what recoil there is. And install a Limbsaver pad. Make sure when you add weight to add both front and rear if your satisfied with current balance point. On my Tristar G2 28 gauge I found it a little less barrel heavy than I like so I added an 8 oz. Recoil reducer by Graco to mag cap. Swings perfect for me now and I also needed to shorten L.O.P. to 14" so while I was at it I installed A Limbsaver Pad. Gun doesn,t really recoil at all now that I feel, but swings beautifully for me. I,m going to shoot some ducks with it this year with Bismuth 1 oz. handloads. #4 shot. Patterns great right out to 40 yds. thru an Extended Imp. Mod choke.
Click to expand...
Those are great ideas I hadn’t considered!

How did you find the right mag cap reducer? I assume your 28 mag cap was threaded the same as a beretta?

How did you add weight to the other end of the gun?

I’ve put new recoil pads on before. I can definitely do that.
 
Patrick Ward said:
Can you clarify why a longer shell delivers more recoil? Is it just because people tend to pack more pellets and powder into the longer shell or is there some other reason?
Click to expand...
The physics of pushing a longer, narrower shot column and the increasing pressure developed due to friction and constriction.

A 12 gauge has a bore just under .75 inches, a 20g just under .62 inches, and a .410, .41 inches (33% tighter than 20g, almost 44% tighter than a 12g).

To keep it to your .410 and 20g options, let's use Noah's recommendation of 1/2oz #9s. Just looked that up and #9s are .08" and you'd get roughly 180 pellets in 1/2 oz.

As is obvious, that 1/2oz would require a longer shot column to fit in the .410 shell than in the .615 (20g) shell. That puts more pellets in contact with the barrels... more friction. More friction means more pressure behind the shot column, yielding more recoil.

I'm not suggesting that this is the biggest contributor, I suspect it is relatively small... but, I also suspect between this and the little extra weight of the 20g vs the .410, you'd feel notably less recoil shooting a 20g with a .410 load (even stepping up to 5/8 or 9/16 oz).
 
Patrick Ward said:
Those are great ideas I hadn’t considered!

How did you find the right mag cap reducer? I assume your 28 mag cap was threaded the same as a beretta?

How did you add weight to the other end of the gun?

I’ve put new recoil pads on before. I can definitely do that.
Click to expand...
Some lead tape on the bottom of a barrel also works... and adding something similar in weight into any cavity in the stock (maybe your local plumbing supply has lead wool in stock?).
 
Idk much about shooting a 410 besides it’s expensive! This place is in Michigan but has custom tss ammo for all gauges.

www.reddawnshotshells.com

410 Waterfowl 2.5" 1/2oz TSS

Hull: Clear 2.5" 410 Payload: 1/2oz Velocity: 1,400 FPS Pellet Count: 128 Pellets of #8 TSS 148 Pellets of #8.5 TSS 180 Pellets of #9 TSS PSI: 12K These come lose in plastic bags, no boxes or containers.
www.reddawnshotshells.com

Tony
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top