Garboard vs copper tube and plugs?

[Clinton John]

Thinking about going with a garboard instead of the normal tube and rubber screw plug transom drain.

Anyone used both types before and care to give me their thoughts on the two?

 

[Steve Sanford]

Thinking about going with a garboard instead of the normal tube and rubber screw plug transom drain.

Anyone used both types before and care to give me their thoughts on the two?

Clinton~

I have used both. I have put brass (or bronze) garboard plugs always in garboards (the plank closest to the keel in wooden vessels) and nylon garboard plugs in 'glass hulls. They are primarily for letting water out of the hull when the boat is in dry/off-season storage. I have used only brass drain tubes through transoms. They are a must in any trailered boat - for draining the bilge at the ramp - in my view. I have never used a nylon drain tube for draining the hull - but will be trying one on an outboard well that I need to rebuild.

The length of the drain tube is critical. I use a plumber's tubing cutter - rather than a saw which can crush/distort the cylinder of the tube. Best is to run a 1-inch dowel through the tube before cutting to length.

Also, it is difficult to peen over the square end of the tube without the use of the proper tool. Such tools cost about $35. Perhaps you can borrow from a friend or local boat shop. I think the directions recommend the tube be an 1/8 or 1/4 inch longer than the transom thickness. I dry fit the tube - with the factory-formed lip on the outside of the hull - then mark about 3/16" longer.

https://www.moellermarine.com/wp-content/uploads/pdfs/flanging-tool.pdf



As you can see in the photo, I scuff sand the outside of the tube with 120-grit paper - then clean with acetone. I set the tube in 3M 5200 when installing, making sure the adhesive is well-distributed on both the outside of the tube and the inside of the transom hole.

BTW: Whether I bore the transom hole (1-inch spade bit usually works best - although a hole-saw should do as well) or re-use an existing one, I seal the interior core(s) with epoxy - at least one coat, preferably two - and let fully cure prior to installation.

BTW2: Be careful with an ungloved fingertip if you are wiping the excess 5200 after tightening. Use a thin rag to avoid a sharp slice.

Final thought: As all of my powered gunning vessels have a decked-over stern, it is easiest to manage the drain plug from the outside. I secure mine to the transom with a length of tarred decoy line. AND - I keep a spare in my toolkit.



Hope this helps!

SJS

 

[tod osier]

Thinking about going with a garboard instead of the normal tube and rubber screw plug transom drain.

Anyone used both types before and care to give me their thoughts on the two?

Grit would be a problem in a duckboat.

 

[Richard Lathrop]

I am not a huge fan of drain plugs. The prior owner of my melonseed had a drain plug aft of the centerboard trunk but left the cockpit uncovered over the winter. Once the bottom of the boat filled with leaves and plugged the drain hole, the bottom rotted out around the plug.

Just a concern I have.

Rick

 

[Clinton John]

Clinton~

I have used both. I have put brass (or bronze) garboard plugs always in garboards (the plank closest to the keel in wooden vessels) and nylon garboard plugs in 'glass hulls. They are primarily for letting water out of the hull when the boat is in dry/off-season storage. I have used only brass drain tubes through transoms. They are a must in any trailered boat - for draining the bilge at the ramp - in my view. I have never used a nylon drain tube for draining the hull - but will be trying one on an outboard well that I need to rebuild.

The length of the drain tube is critical. I use a plumber's tubing cutter - rather than a saw which can crush/distort the cylinder of the tube. Best is to run a 1-inch dowel through the tube before cutting to length.

Also, it is difficult to peen over the square end of the tube without the use of the proper tool. Such tools cost about $35. Perhaps you can borrow from a friend or local boat shop. I think the directions recommend the tube be an 1/8 or 1/4 inch longer than the transom thickness. I dry fit the tube - with the factory-formed lip on the outside of the hull - then mark about 3/16" longer.

https://www.moellermarine.com/wp-content/uploads/pdfs/flanging-tool.pdf

View attachment 62732

As you can see in the photo, I scuff sand the outside of the tube with 120-grit paper - then clean with acetone. I set the tube in 3M 5200 when installing, making sure the adhesive is well-distributed on both the outside of the tube and the inside of the transom hole.

BTW: Whether I bore the transom hole (1-inch spade bit usually works best - although a hole-saw should do as well) or re-use an existing one, I seal the interior core(s) with epoxy - at least one coat, preferably two - and let fully cure prior to installation.

BTW2: Be careful with an ungloved fingertip if you are wiping the excess 5200 after tightening. Use a thin rag to avoid a sharp slice.

Final thought: As all of my powered gunning vessels have a decked-over stern, it is easiest to manage the drain plug from the outside. I secure mine to the transom with a length of tarred decoy line. AND - I keep a spare in my toolkit.

View attachment 62733

Hope this helps!

SJS

Thanks for the reply.

I have installed a few drain tubes over the years and never had issues with them.

However after owning my duckhunter the last few years and getting ready to build a second one.

I have come to realize, I can't get to the plug in the tube while the boat is in the water and in use.

I installed two bilge pumps for that very reason. And will install two bilge pumps on the new boat as well.

So I thought maybe the garboard type would be a good option for the next boat.

Is a transom drain required by law?

 

[Huntindave McCann]

Is a transom drain required by law?

No,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, however having a drain plug is the easiest way to comply with other laws. Specifically the laws/regulations concerning transportation of aquatic invasive species. Many states now require that anything which can hold water, be empty of water (and "dry") before one can leave the ramp access. This includes among other things, cooler, bait buckets, live wells, bilge areas, etc. Provided one can show that the bilge is void of water, one does not need an actual drain plug. Just a bilge pump is not sufficient, one would need to sponge out any remaining water.
Your state, and your local compliance officers may vary as to strictness of enforcement.

BTW, a threaded drain plug can be a royal pain in the behind, anytime there can be debris in the bilge water, which is always, even on a fishing boat. Couple that with freezing temps, sheesh. At that point in time, my drain plug becomes cosmetic only.

 

[tod osier]

I am not a huge fan of drain plugs. The prior owner of my melonseed had a drain plug aft of the centerboard trunk but left the cockpit uncovered over the winter. Once the bottom of the boat filled with leaves and plugged the drain hole, the bottom rotted out around the plug.

Just a concern I have.

Rick

I have a concern about leaving boats outside!

 

[Clinton John]

No,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, however having a drain plug is the easiest way to comply with other laws. Specifically the laws/regulations concerning transportation of aquatic invasive species. Many states now require that anything which can hold water, be empty of water (and "dry") before one can leave the ramp access. This includes among other things, cooler, bait buckets, live wells, bilge areas, etc. Provided one can show that the bilge is void of water, one does not need an actual drain plug. Just a bilge pump is not sufficient, one would need to sponge out any remaining water.
Your state, and your local compliance officers may vary as to strictness of enforcement.

BTW, a threaded drain plug can be a royal pain in the behind, anytime there can be debris in the bilge water, which is always, even on a fishing boat. Couple that with freezing temps, sheesh. At that point in time, my drain plug becomes cosmetic only.

Freezing temps? What's dat?

I'm down da bayou, we don't get that round here.

Yea they don't exactly enforce things like that around here. I'm a border parish hunter/angler most of my hunting/fishing is either in LA or TX depending on what direction the wind is blowing that day. Full livewells,bait buckets and ice chest across state lines year round and never anything said by either states wardens.

That's the thing. I already can't get the plug out of the drain while the boats in use, only when it's on the trailer at the ramp. So it would be the same situation for me If I went with a garboard type drain setup or the standard tube and plug setup

I literally can't drive the boat and get down on my knees and cram my big head in a hull section between the rear bulkhead and transom to try and find the plug or lean out over the transom while running to pull the plug that way. So it's either two bilge pump system or pray I make it to the dock without swamping the boat.

Just Incase I didn't mention it my boats have been gator duckhunters and the new one I'm going to build will be another duckhunters. Just refined with all my wishes I have learned over the last few years.

 

[Steve Sanford]

Freezing temps? What's dat?

I'm down da bayou, we don't get that round here.

Yea they don't exactly enforce things like that around here. I'm a border parish hunter/angler most of my hunting/fishing is either in LA or TX depending on what direction the wind is blowing that day. Full livewells,bait buckets and ice chest across state lines year round and never anything said by either states wardens.

That's the thing. I already can't get the plug out of the drain while the boats in use, only when it's on the trailer at the ramp. So it would be the same situation for me If I went with a garboard type drain setup or the standard tube and plug setup

I literally can't drive the boat and get down on my knees and cram my big head in a hull section between the rear bulkhead and transom to try and find the plug or lean out over the transom while running to pull the plug that way. So it's either two bilge pump system or pray I make it to the dock without swamping the boat.

Just Incase I didn't mention it my boats have been gator duckhunters and the new one I'm going to build will be another duckhunters. Just refined with all my wishes I have learned over the last few years.

Clinton~

Now you've got me curious.... Is swamping a frequent risk?

I have never been swamped - other than running rivers in a canoe - but am always prepared with an Old School technology. Note flat side on the rim - very useful for bailing. I get mine at Tractor Supply - and replace the steel bail with 1/4-inch nylon to avoid rust or scratches. The "Model Perfect Duckboat Sponge" is a piece of 4-inch mattress foam cut to size on my bandsaw. (which ice enjoy off-season)



Happy New Year!

SJS

 

[Clinton John]

Clinton~

Now you've got me curious.... Is swamping a frequent risk?

I have never been swamped - other than running rivers in a canoe - but am always prepared with an Old School technology. Note flat side on the rim - very useful for bailing. I get mine at Tractor Supply - and replace the steel bail with 1/4-inch nylon to avoid rust or scratches. The "Model Perfect Duckboat Sponge" is a piece of 4-inch mattress foam cut to size on my bandsaw. (which ice enjoy off-season)

View attachment 62752

Happy New Year!

SJS

It can be when the wind kicks up.

I hunt super shallow waters, but I still have to travel through deeper sections to get to the dock.

With the waters filled with stumps from before the lake was filled, there are times when I have no choice but to take waves across hull sections that will put water in the boat, no matter the speed traveled or the hull shape.

 

[jode hillman]

No,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, however having a drain plug is the easiest way to comply with other laws. Specifically the laws/regulations concerning transportation of aquatic invasive species. Many states now require that anything which can hold water, be empty of water (and "dry") before one can leave the ramp access. This includes among other things, cooler, bait buckets, live wells, bilge areas, etc. Provided one can show that the bilge is void of water, one does not need an actual drain plug. Just a bilge pump is not sufficient, one would need to sponge out any remaining water.
Your state, and your local compliance officers may vary as to strictness of enforcement.

BTW, a threaded drain plug can be a royal pain in the behind, anytime there can be debris in the bilge water, which is always, even on a fishing boat. Couple that with freezing temps, sheesh. At that point in time, my drain plug becomes cosmetic only.

My Scaup had a threaded brass Garboad plug in it as a drain. While it worked, it was always a PIA. Dirt,grit, mud leaves would to plug it up and make it hard to thread.

I eventually drilled it out and replaced it with a standard 1 inch drain tube and plug.

 

[Steve Sanford]

It can be when the wind kicks up.

I hunt super shallow waters, but I still have to travel through deeper sections to get to the dock.

With the waters filled with stumps from before the lake was filled, there are times when I have no choice but to take waves across hull sections that will put water in the boat, no matter the speed traveled or the hull shape.

Clinton~

I know you began this very interesting thread by asking about drain plugs, but....

I cover my cockpit when not gunning with a canvas cover. It lashes to the thatch rails - with short lengths of tarred decoy line and slipped square knots. One benefit of a soft cover - as opposed to a rigid one - is that I can bring it with me on a hunt.



I have used it for sleeping overnight in my boat and also for avoiding menacing seas. In the latter case, I rig it from my spray dodger to my outboard - lashed to the thatch rail along its lower edge. It thus serves as a "weather cloth" on the windward side of the boat - from whence a big beam sea could swamp me. It's cheap insurance.

Hope this helps!

SJS

 

[Ed L.]

I've had two real fun days in my life time due to plugs. The first time was when I questioned a friend in his uses of a rubber type plug as shown in the picture. As luck would have it his plug got pulled out while motoring in back water. After running the boat up on a sand bar we managed to take the wooden dowel out of my shotgun I used as a plug and wedge it into the plug sleeve and bail out the boat to get home. From then on he always put the plug in from inside the boat. The next one was plastic thread plug in my CC boat that vibrated out on tampa bay. We had been under power until we got close to dock when my wife started screaming we were taking on water. We headed for the sand and I trimmed the motor up as I slid into shallow water parallel to the shore. Luck was in my side. We headed to West marine which was close. Got back in time to get the plug in and trip the bige pump switch. Was just a matter of waiting for tide to come back in. Today I use the stainless rubber plunger plug with the "t" type handle. I always have a couple of spares in the boat box because they do fail after a matter of time and water will come the center hole after continuous compression.

 

[Steve Sanford]

Good morning, Ed~

Just a couple more thoughts...

I install my transom plugs from the outside - because of the decked over stern. As you mentioned, I do replace them before the rubber gets worn and brittle - and I keep a spare in my tool kit.

On one vessel I also attached a floating drain plug on the inside, right above the drain tube. It is strictly for emergencies - as a South Bay Duckboat (decked over stern) requires a bit of spelunking to reach it. This particular plug struck me as somewhat weak - so I would not use as my everyday transom plug. I secured it to the backer board (as shown - for the motor board) with light cotton thread - so it could be pulled free when needed.



In any event, I am glad you made it back safely from both adventures.

Happy Twenty-five!

SJS

 

[Scott Gilliland]

A thought on drain plugs. I have a thread that's turned into a rebuild of an AA Broadbill ( https://duckboats.net/community/threads/advice-on-sneakbox-aa-broadbill-or-mlb-wigeon.354922/). I'm think that the damage to the hull was a combination of leaving the boat outside uncovered and lack of a drain. I think they are necessary and I have a couple of brass tubes and one of the flange kits on the way and it will have a drain soon. I've logged a lot of hours in small Zodiac's and like the example Steve showed they mount from the outside, and I'll be doing the same. If that Broadbill had a drain I don't think the hull would have been damaged, and I consider them an essential piece of it on a small boat. I also always have spares.

 

[Clinton John]

Well I have decided.... There will be no transom plug in this up coming boat.

Going to run my typing 2 bilge pump setup with one rigged on float setting and the other rigged to flip on by switch.

Going to take Steve's advice and get me a couple of blocks of foam for sponging the lil bit of water that might be in there out.

Will save some work, time, epoxy, headache during the build and will remove a possible water intrusion point in the transom.