Intro and sneakbox restoration

[Jody Durant]

Hello all-

I was a member here going way back and apparently the account was deleted, possibly for inactivity. My bad.

I spent a couple hours today searching for a dodger or spray skirt for my layout boat, and if I couldn’t find one, design ideas instead. I am in the middle of rehabbing my sneakbox. I know it was made from a kit in the early 1960’s here in Washington State and, in my searches, might be a Glen L design.

At 65 years old the boat is still very solid and there were a few minor holes in the seams that I felt needed to be addressed. Last week I flipped it up on sawhorses and started sanding. Originally, my plan was a couple spot patches, strip the paint and just fresh outer coat. Then I got carried away. I stripped it completely, re-glassed the entire bottom and wrapped it halfway up the sides. The last coat of resin is curing for a couple days before I can prime and refinish it. All my products came from Total Boat and I couldn’t say enough good things about them. The project is coming out better than my skill level deserves and the hull sounds and feels like it was cast as one solid piece. Its amazing.

I hunted out of it just fine last year and I cant wait for the season to start up again this year. I’ve also been shooting blackpowder for fun, on better days, just for the nostalgia factor.

I bought the boat because I often hunt alone, out of necessity more than choice. I’d love to meet someone else that has a similar boat and do a tandem hunt.

I’ll post more pictures as the project proceeds.

 

[RM Anderson]

Hello all-

I was a member here going way back and apparently the account was deleted, possibly for inactivity. My bad.

I spent a couple hours today searching for a dodger or spray skirt for my layout boat, and if I couldn’t find one, design ideas instead. I am in the middle of rehabbing my sneakbox. I know it was made from a kit in the early 1960’s here in Washington State and, in my searches, might be a Glen L design.

At 65 years old the boat is still very solid and there were a few minor holes in the seams that I felt needed to be addressed. Last week I flipped it up on sawhorses and started sanding. Originally, my plan was a couple spot patches, strip the paint and just fresh outer coat. Then I got carried away. I stripped it completely, re-glassed the entire bottom and wrapped it halfway up the sides. The last coat of resin is curing for a couple days before I can prime and refinish it. All my products came from Total Boat and I couldn’t say enough good things about them. The project is coming out better than my skill level deserves and the hull sounds and feels like it was cast as one solid piece. Its amazing.

I hunted out of it just fine last year and I cant wait for the season to start up again this year. I’ve also been shooting blackpowder for fun, on better days, just for the nostalgia factor.

I bought the boat because I often hunt alone, out of necessity more than choice. I’d love to meet someone else that has a similar boat and do a tandem hunt.

I’ll post more pictures as the project proceeds.

Jody,
Beautiful boat and welcome back!
RM

 

[Jody Durant]

Thank you and thank you.

I forgot to add that, as a part of my retrofit, I ordered some two part foam. I dont really have any sealed compartments that I can fill and even though the foam would have very limited exposure to bilge water, I wanted you to make some sort of containment for the foam because having to dig it all out someday would require removing the top hull.
My thoughts so far would be cutting down some five gallon buckets, or even some dollar store dishpans. I also considered after drilling a three in ch hole, trying to stuff a super heavy duty garbage bag inside from the top and inflating it with a reversed vacuum cleaner before pouring foam.

I am open to ideas here.

 

[jode hillman]

Thank you and thank you.

I forgot to add that, as a part of my retrofit, I ordered some two part foam. I dont really have any sealed compartments that I can fill and even though the foam would have very limited exposure to bilge water, I wanted you to make some sort of containment for the foam because having to dig it all out someday would require removing the top hull.
My thoughts so far would be cutting down some five gallon buckets, or even some dollar store dishpans. I also considered after drilling a three in ch hole, trying to stuff a super heavy duty garbage bag inside from the top and inflating it with a reversed vacuum cleaner before pouring foam.

I am open to ideas here.

Please, for the love of God, do not put any foam in your boat!

I know many builders call for it, and people think it gives them peace of mind.

In reality, all it does is become a reservoir for holding water, weighing down your boat, and causing rot.

A much better approach, if you choose to, is creating a sealed compartment with a water tight hatch.

This allows you to inspect it and dry it out if needed.

I've built a worked on dozens of boats containing foam.

They all at some point take water. Even if it's not from liquid water, changes in atmospheric pressure often cause moisture to enter the compartment.

I spent three miserable hours tonight pulling the last of the closed cell foam out of my devlin Scaup forward compartment.

 

[jode hillman]

Thank you and thank you.

I forgot to add that, as a part of my retrofit, I ordered some two part foam. I dont really have any sealed compartments that I can fill and even though the foam would have very limited exposure to bilge water, I wanted you to make some sort of containment for the foam because having to dig it all out someday would require removing the top hull.
My thoughts so far would be cutting down some five gallon buckets, or even some dollar store dishpans. I also considered after drilling a three in ch hole, trying to stuff a super heavy duty garbage bag inside from the top and inflating it with a reversed vacuum cleaner before pouring foam.

I am open to ideas here.

Another option, many have mentioned in the past, is you can fill a compartment with an inner tube. The inner tube holds air which is more buoyant than foam, and can easily be removed if needed.

Foam is not more buoyant than air itself

 

[RM Anderson]

Thank you and thank you.

I forgot to add that, as a part of my retrofit, I ordered some two part foam. I dont really have any sealed compartments that I can fill and even though the foam would have very limited exposure to bilge water, I wanted you to make some sort of containment for the foam because having to dig it all out someday would require removing the top hull.
My thoughts so far would be cutting down some five gallon buckets, or even some dollar store dishpans. I also considered after drilling a three in ch hole, trying to stuff a super heavy duty garbage bag inside from the top and inflating it with a reversed vacuum cleaner before pouring foam.

I am open to ideas here.

Jody,
You method of adding foam scares me a bit because too much foam would surely destroy your boat and as Jode mentioned, it attracts moisture.
I saw in your photos floor slats. Perhaps you could line the bilge with foam sheets cut to fit and secure it with the wood slats that you sit on so the foam is removable. My Kara Hummer has 1.5" foam insulation under the plywood floor panel. Between hunts I simply unscrew the plywood and remove the foam to dry it out.
RM

 

[Jody Durant]

That is exactly why I posed the question. Thank you for the insight and sorry this was your day today. Exactly what I wanted to avoid.

An inner tube… smart. Why didnt I think of that?

 

[jode hillman]

That is exactly why I posed the question. Thank you for the insight and sorry this was your day today. Exactly what I wanted to avoid.

An inner tube… smart. Why didnt I think of that?

I can't take credit for the idea. I think Steve Sanford originally posed that solution at least five or six years ago and I thought it was an excellent idea.

 

[Eric Patterson]

Then I got carried away. I stripped it completely, re-glassed the entire bottom and wrapped it halfway up the sides. The last coat of resin is curing for a couple days before I can prime and refinish it.

You sound like us.

Another option to foam is to simply stuff life preserves into areas that are hard to reach and you don't typically use for storage.

 

[Jody Durant]

Well I had my first layout boat around 18… a 14’ Fiberdome. I sold it after about ten years for Christmas money for the kids and always regretted it. I also have two Marshrats now but I have always been overtly drawn to BBSB designs, with no rational explanation. I even thought it would be cool to retrofit this boat to accept a sail… again for no particular reason.

Like I said before… I was a pretty active member maybe twenty years ago, back when my dreams were more limited by my finances.

I guess I’ve always aspired to sound like you guys.

 

[Steve Sanford]

Well I had my first layout boat around 18… a 14’ Fiberdome. I sold it after about ten years for Christmas money for the kids and always regretted it. I also have two Marshrats now but I have always been overtly drawn to BBSB designs, with no rational explanation. I even thought it would be cool to retrofit this boat to accept a sail… again for no particular reason.

Like I said before… I was a pretty active member maybe twenty years ago, back when my dreams were more limited by my finances.

I guess I’ve always aspired to sound like you guys.

Jody~

Sweet vessel - congratulations!

I share the dim view of foam - even the 2-part "closed cell" flotation foam. Try googling "flotation bags for small boats" to go a step beyond inner tubes or plastic milk jugs. Or "Beckson deck plates" for watertight compartments.

All the best,
SJS

 

[SJ Fairbank]

Jody,

I'm an anti-foamer as well. Full confession, I generally don't put in flotation. The few times I used foam, I did it as you first considered......push a doubled up garbage bag in and blow air in it to make the bag conform to the compartment. Then pour in the foam. The other suggestions you got are probably what I'd do today.

Having said all that, I'm considering pouring a small amount of foam into the bow of my current builds for structural support. Still pondering.

 

[Steve Sanford]

Jody,

I'm an anti-foamer as well. Full confession, I generally don't put in flotation. The few times I used foam, I did it as you first considered......push a doubled up garbage bag in and blow air in it to make the bag conform to the compartment. Then pour in the foam. The other suggestions you got are probably what I'd do today.

Having said all that, I'm considering pouring a small amount of foam into the bow of my current builds for structural support. Still pondering.

SJ~

As it happens, I am 'glassing in my forward bulkhead this morning. It'll provide a foam-free flotation chamber (with a 4-inch Beckson deck plate for access, airing and inspection) AND add a bit more deck support.

I risk worrying the Legal Services Division here at Pencil Brook Boatworks, but....for low-speed hulls with very low risk of hull puncture, I prefer air chambers to foam. Don't tell anyone!

All the best,

SJS

 

[Nate Hoyt]

I hate sealed compartments filled with foam, especially foam poured under the sole. A crack will eventually form somewhere in a fillet due barometric pressure cycling and water will get sucked in to waterlog the foam.

However I also like foam because it fills a potential space before water can; I've found friends standing chest deep in water who answer "I'm in it" when asked where the hell their pirogue or canoe is. It is funny in the marsh, but will drown you elsewhere.

My compromise is to hang flotation foam under decks instead of pouring it into the bottom of sealed compartments. I just fillet in pink polystyrene panels, but I should learn to vacuum bag pourable foam. Closed cell foam needs to be submerged or trapped in a steam box to get waterlogged. Ambient humidity doesn't soak in. All flotation chambers must have inspection ports. This provides a point for pressure to equalize and a way to dry the compartment out.

Nate

 

[Steve Sanford]

I hate sealed compartments filled with foam, especially foam poured under the sole. A crack will eventually form somewhere in a fillet due barometric pressure cycling and water will get sucked in to waterlog the foam.

However I also like foam because it fills a potential space before water can; I've found friends standing chest deep in water who answer "I'm in it" when asked where the hell their pirogue or canoe is. It is funny in the marsh, but will drown you elsewhere.

My compromise is to hang flotation foam under decks instead of pouring it into the bottom of sealed compartments. I just fillet in pink polystyrene panels, but I should learn to vacuum bag pourable foam. Closed cell foam needs to be submerged or trapped in a steam box to get waterlogged. Ambient humidity doesn't soak in. All flotation chambers must have inspection ports. This provides a point for pressure to equalize and a way to dry the compartment out.

Nate

Jody & Nate~

Insulation board fitted under the deck is a fine alternative. I used it on my second boat - imaginatively named 2-man grassboat. The board was white Styrofoam - this was in the mid-1980s - and tended to shed beads over time but otherwise provided peace-of-mind - especially as it was located up high in the vessel - a good place if the vessel ever swamped.

Later South Bay Duckboats used closed-cell flotation foam in bow and stern flotation chambers AND sprayed about 1.5 to 2 inches thick beneath the decks. For the latter, they sometimes applied a light skin of 'glass cloth to protect it from abrasion.

If I used insulation board today I might try the foil-faced isocyanate that I have beneath my shop floor.

All the best,

SJS

 

[Eric Patterson]

I spent three miserable hours tonight pulling the last of the closed cell foam out of my devlin Scaup forward compartment.

What was the means of entry for the water?

 

[jode hillman]

What was the means of entry for the water?

I never found any visible entry point.

I'm assuming it's accumulated atmosphere moisture from a 10 years since the boat has been built. That's always been my issue with many of these "sealed" compartments. They seem to accumulate moisture regardless.

Granted, this is an outdoor stored boat with a cover.

So it does see quite drastic fluctuations in temperature and humidity

 

[Eric Patterson]

One of these days I'll take a drill both my boats and probe for water. If water found a way in it would have to be repeated condensation with air exchange, somehow, because mine are sealed.

 

[Steve Sanford]

I never found any visible entry point.

I'm assuming it's accumulated atmosphere moisture from a 10 years since the boat has been built. That's always been my issue with many of these "sealed" compartments. They seem to accumulate moisture regardless.

Granted, this is an outdoor stored boat with a cover.

So it does see quite drastic fluctuations in temperature and humidity

Yup! The foam-free flotation chambers in my RED-LEG accumulate significant water from condensation. Hooray for Becksons!

SJS

 

[Eric Patterson]

Steve

I'm going to probe mine. But I may wait until after the season. My boats have been stored inside for much of their lives so I've got that going for me.