A "What would you do" post - Selling waterfowl mounts

Terry Desilets

Active member
I imagine that the vast majority of the active members of DHBP know that it is illegal to sell a wild waterfowl mount. Now, I peruse Craigslist for all sorts of things and occasionally I come across ads offering waterfowl mounts for sale. I have, a few times, sent emails inquiring if the mounts are pen raised or wild. And in all cases have received a return email stating that they are genuine wild birds.

Do you let them know that it's possible that some guys in Green uniforms may come knocking? I'm sure most are oblivious to the law, but I hate to see someone get a ticket. (The couple that replied, I sent a note with the federal law attached. Not one responded.)

Do you inform the people that they are breaking the law or just let come what may? What would you do??
(I never really considered calling the DNR on them)
 
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I wouldn't turn them in, sometimes I live in a glass house. Several years ago, one of my customers owned a huge craft and floral supply store here on Long Island. These guys are fishermen not hunters. Unknowingly, they bought several mounts and placed them on the shelves for resale. Well the DEC made their appearence and the fines were monumental. Not everybody is aware of the law.
 
While I wouldn't call the feds in most cases, if someone is knowingly selling mounts that can't legally be sold I certainly would consider it. I wouldn't hesitate to send the seller a note letting them know they are breaking the law. Hopefully they would pull the item off the market.

I wish the government would target the sellers and not the ignorant buyer. Of course that doesn't apply to those folks who buy themselves a trophy knowing it is against the law. I realize that ignorance is no defense but it doesn't really address the problem when you fine someone who didn't realize they were breaking the law. Education of the public and prosecution of the sellers who profit would be a better approach in my opinion.
 
I have sent messages to a few when I thought they unknowingly were trying to sell something they shouldn't. You do have to remember there are a lot of mounts out there that are legal to sell also. Can't really tell from most photos.
I don't think the government needs much help finding people selling illegally. They usually target those selling many items without proper permits.

Tim
 
If they were pen raised, and all paperwork is on hand, no problem---IT IS ILLEGAL to sell skins, feathers, meat, bits or pieces---Best to e mail the nimrod and let him know that what he is doing is a VIOLATION of an INTERNATIONAL treaty.
Nuff said.
 
If they were pen raised, and all paperwork is on hand, no problem---IT IS ILLEGAL to sell skins, feathers, meat, bits or pieces---Best to e mail the nimrod and let him know that what he is doing is a VIOLATION of an INTERNATIONAL treaty.
Nuff said.


There is a legal market for waterfowl feathers. You can pluck the feathers off and sell them to fly tyers or pillow makers. Other migratory birds such as coots, doves, cranes and woodcock are not covered by that exception.

Tim
 
folkd who run picking operations often have licences to sell the feathers--Would butie expeditious to check carefully.
 
Sec. 20.91 Commercial use of feathers.





Any person may possess, purchase, sell, barter, or transport for the

making of fishing flies, bed pillows, and mattresses, and for similar

commercial uses the feathers of migratory waterfowl (ducks, geese,

brant, and swans) killed by hunting pursuant to this part, or seized and

condemned by Federal or State game authorities, except that:

(a) No person shall purchase, sell, barter, or offer to purchase,

sell, or barter for millinery or ornamental use the feathers of

migratory game birds taken under authority of this part; and

(b) No person shall purchase, sell, barter, or offer to purchase,

sell, or barter mounted specimens of migratory game birds taken under

authority of this part.
 
If I were unknowingly breaking a law and someone knew about it, I would definitely want them to tell me!! In fact, I think I'd be pissed if I got fined and found out after the fact that someone could have warned me, but didn't . . .
 
Lemme play the devils advocate... what is someone was offering pot for sale on craigs list? would you advise them they are breaking the law? What about prositution between consenting adults (which seems to make the news here frequently) on craig's list? I can see something involving a kid, or a gun, something that has the potiental to hurt somebody, but someone just being an idiot and advertising something on the web that can get them busted, I think you just gotta leave well enough alone. Its the internet, you got access to it or you wouldnt have posted an ad on it... how hard would it been to google what your selling to make sure its legal? If you cared, you would have. So ignorence of the law isnt an excuse, the people dont care and odds are wont care when you tell them. If i was going to do anything, Id post a comment polietly tell them they might want to check federal migretory laws, therefore anyone reading it would be informed. The lawbreaker doesnt care,or they'd found out. but when someone buys it, they break the law unknowningly.... thinking if something was on sale publicly common sense says its ok.

Had a friend answer an ad on craigs list to buy a few mounts for a garage game room thing he had just bought. it was a federal game warden selling the mounts. cost him big, and he was clueless. All the stuff going on in this world, a waterfowl mount sting seems way down the list... travis
 
Had a friend answer an ad on craigs list to buy a few mounts for a garage game room thing he had just bought. it was a federal game warden selling the mounts. cost him big, and he was clueless. All the stuff going on in this world, a waterfowl mount sting seems way down the list... travis
 
Being someone who does not have any waterfowl mounts, nor haven't had the desire for any wild animal mounts, I had no idea this was illegal. Just not an area that I paid attention to. I suppose if mounts were something I got into I would learn the legalities of buying/selling them on the open market. Even I ever did attempt to unknowingly sell something that was illegal, and someone could have warned me, I'd sure appreciate someone telling me so. It is all in how it would be handled. Starting off the note with "Hey Asshole....." wouldn't work very well. Staring off the note with a "Are you aware that ......" would be something I woudl read and greatly appreciate.

You should let the individuals know. You might be helping someone who doesn't know the law. If they are beligerent in their reply, you can then decide the next steps.

Mark W
 
Travis,
I understand what you are saying but ignorance is rampant and as easy as it is to find an answer these days people just don't seem to look.

To be honest if I saw someone selling pot or advertising prostitution on a web site it is getting forwarded to the proper authorities. Everyone knows those things are illegal.
I feel sorry for your friend, that is a tough situation and I do agree that there are better things those resources could be spent on. To play devils advocate myself a little there are a lot of people out there who knowingly pay for very rare and illegal mounts. If someone could find out before they sell then someone who is buying could find out the same thing.

There is a taxidermy site where a lot of legal animal and bird skins are sold. But just because it is legal to sell them that doesn't mean there isn't red tape. Most of the time the buyer needs to be licensed with the state they are in as a fur buyer. If someone sells a raw fur to someone in another state who is not a licensed buyer they are not only breaking a state law but a federal law. They are hyper paranoid on that site and warn new sellers all the time to make sure the buyer is legal. For some it almost seems like sport to see if they can get someone to sell illegally.

btw As just an added tidbit to this thread, in many states game fish skins can not be sold so stay away from fish mounts unless you know your states laws very well. I see fish mounts for sell a lot more often then waterfowl.

Tim
 
Theres no wrong answer cause its a what would you do question, so I aint aruging of coruse but... ya can't call 911 and hang up. if you do, they send a squad car....

If i saw someone selling pot or prostituion, and I forwarded it to the proper authorities, id be in the middle of it... Now if a kid was involved, or someone is going to get hurt, I got no problem getting involved. But for the sake of a victimless crime, Id not have my time, and certainly not my name involved with it. My neighbor several years kicked the crap outta his wife... the 911 call was from my house. The cops where in my yard for 4 hours and everyone that asked got the answer domestic distubance. It was worth getting involved because she was being hurt... but had it simply been an argument Id not wanted to get involved for the sake of being drug into it. And having cops in my driveway for 4 hours answering questions with domestic distubrance is way more involved than I wanted to be. At the time they had a couple kids, I went next door and got the kids.... that was important. Next time they where fighting out front, nobody was bleeding and the kids had been gone for a month. So what. 2 adults can do what they want. Nobody is hurt and no kids involved. Turns out she was a loon and he was a crook, but I would have had no effect on either of those things. Its not that Id refuse to get involved with a crime, its that Im not going to get involved with a victimless crime that is most certainly going to involve me. I miss a day of work because Im suppeoned if it goes the distance, because a bunch of worthless pieces o crap that dont work wanted to trade out rent for sex with another worthless peice of crap that dont work... nope id not say a word. That happened, here in town less than a month ago. And the freggin news went and talked to several of the people that filed complaints... they where on the news with the words craig's list sex scandle on the screen while they where being interviewed for complaining! no thanks. Like I said, if i saw the mounts, and thought someone might buy them and accidently jam themselves, id want to warn em. But no way Im going to anyone and complaining and get my name in the loop.

I watch entire (full size deep) freezers full of crappie fillets be taken back up north every sat and sun while Im eating lunch on sardis lake ms. Sure some of those old folks might eat 500 pounds of crappie fillets a year... but the majority is being sold and we know it because every year the mdfw investiagtes people and finds out they are selling them, out of state. It happens at sardis, enid, and grenada lake, Im sure it happens at other big reserviors in the south during and after the crappie spawn as well. Heck maybe it happens up north. for the effort it takes to nab a duck mount buyer you could shut a whole camp down. 1000's of crappies that are going to be caught, cleaned, transported and sold. Something that IS hurting someone. Hurts me when i go crappie fishing. Hurts the resturant im eating at cause less fish means less vistors, the store i bought gas at, my buddies property values because more fish mean more value to lakeside property and so on... Thats the kind of blanant fish and game violations I can't imagine letting go on with nothing more a token effort to stop it. crappie fishing is a huge resource, and these people are raping it and stealing from everyone. Fix the real problems before time is spent on messing with guy wanting feathers to tie flys, or some dude who wants to buy a freggin duck mount. Resources are adviable for anything that people who pull the trigger on deem important... for example the millions of dollars of stimulus money being spent ineffectively at the same sardis lake fixing boat ramps that dont have anything wrong with them, and dreging out ramps and putting the sand where it'll blow back into the ramp... a small % of that money spent to investigate the people that come and fish till they cant store any more and go home and sell them, would do more for everyone involved.

its so easy for your name to get involved with a mess, even if your doing the right thing, and before long its your mess. Again, I'd risk it for someone being hurt. Im not advocating being the person on a crime show that walks past a victim getting stabbed or bleeding out because you dont want to get involved. Im just saying, you can REAL easy jam yourself up, especially on the net or law enforcement, for being the good samatarian when nobody really cares.

I always thought if i was in charge of fishing in mississippi, id bust every single one of them crappie sellers. And itd be all over the news, magazines, and internet forms, about how many illegal crappie where caught and sold on ms reseviors. Next year id have 3x as many out of staters coming to fish. if its good nuff for people to cheat and steal over it, must be good fishing! best marketing line ever was, for erections over 4 hours call a doctor.... if theres a CHANCE folks jumped! travis
 
I don't really disagree with you. I'm not going to be Gomer running down the street yelling "Citizen's arrest!" every time I see something that might be wrong. There are a zillion little things I'm not going to get too riled up about...but I do think most of those things should be illegal. If drugs weren't illegal, and people didn't break those laws, can you imagine how boring country music would be? It would be...well like it has been the last 20 years.

We are all in different situations, I know an officer well and am in a small community. If I didn't know who I was talking to I would be much more hesitant to call on the law. Actually the only time I think I have ever called the police was when I thought a kid was going to get mauled by a dog. The POS owner came back and contained the dog before it did any damage. That dog was crazy, I don't know how someone didn't get bit.

There was a prostitution ring busted in a nearby town last year. What seemed like a simple case of skanks trying to make a buck tuned into human trafficking when the ages of the girls were learned. There was a Dr getting "serviced" for supplying drugs to keep the girls "compliant". You never know what all is involved.

I agree illegal sales of fish are a much bigger deal then a couple old mounts someone is selling that came off of their grandpa's wall after he passed away. That's why I'd tell them what I know and move on. If I saw them with some hard to get ducks and they looked new I'd be more tempted to just report them. I did see someone selling mourning dove feathers on ebay a few years ago. I sent them a message. The next day they changed it to 'Turtle Dove' feathers for sale. A couple days later it was off, good for them or I was seriously thinking about reporting them.

Tim
 
Hit a wrong button sorry! I'm in the "best to let them know" camp. That isn't a commonly known law and it would be unfortunate for someone to get pinched.
 
I do not agree with Travis Bruce's assessment that this is a victimless crime. Many trophy mounts are sold knowing it is illegal. Chances of finding one on Craigs List are slim but there is a reason this is illegal. It protects the resource so that we all benefit. Without this protection we all lose.
 
All the stuff going on in this world, a waterfowl mount sting seems way down the list... travis


I really don't understand the mentality. #1 it is a Federal law... why should it be overlooked? #2 Isn't it the job of the Federal Wardens to enforce these laws? #3 What is going on in the world that is so different than what has gone on in the last century? Wars have started, been fought, and ended... the economy has gone up and down...people have lived, gotten married, had babies, and died... so what is different now?
 
Hit a wrong button sorry! I'm in the "best to let them know" camp. That isn't a commonly known law and it would be unfortunate for someone to get pinched.

Really????? I don't understand how someone doesn't know this.... Who doesn't know that waterfowl is federally managed and their are a ton of laws governing them. I knew these general laws decade before I was a taxidermist. I am just bewildered by the lack of knowledge on this. I am not slambing anyone by when I say this.
 
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