A "What would you do" post - Selling waterfowl mounts

Phil I bet 90% of them that get offered for sale are from wives and kids getting rid of the old mans stuff after he passes away. I wouldn't expect most non hunter to even give it a second thought. They know he had to pay to have it mounted so they think it is worth something. Not saying it is right but most of the people never have to think about laws dealing with wild animals like we do. Every animal they know of comes with a price tag on it.

Tim
 
The origin of the Migratory Bird Convention with Great Britain on behalf of Canada in 1916 (which lead to the Migratory Bird Treaty Act on 1918) was unregulated killing of migratory birds for commercial purposes. Those purposes included millinery trade (feathers, wings, bodies for women's hats and other finery), market hunting for restaurants, and inconsistent and uncoordinated harvest by the states that was leading to population declines. It remains illegal to sell, barter or do trade with migratory birds, their parts, eggs or nests. I personally think that the total prohibition of any commercial trade with birds and their parts has helped bird conservation and management tremendously. You can look to commercial interests in fishing and big-game for some examples of issues that bird conservation has never had to deal with because of this prohibition.
 
I would do what you said Terry. Simple email to let them know. I did not know it was illegal til I was in my 40s. It just never came up and waterfowl mount laws do not pass the common sense test. Your email would have two likely results. Inform the ignorant or remind the guilty. There are plenty of high and mighty a-holes to pick up where you leave off. Maybe your note will arrive in time to beat Gladys Cravits to the punch. Best be known as a nice guy with a yellow shirt.
 
I imagine that the vast majority of the active members of DHBP know that it is illegal to sell a wild waterfowl mount. Now, I peruse Craigslist for all sorts of things and occasionally I come across ads offering waterfowl mounts for sale. I have, a few times, sent emails inquiring if the mounts are pen raised or wild. And in all cases have received a return email stating that they are genuine wild birds.

Do you let them know that it's possible that some guys in Green uniforms may come knocking? I'm sure most are oblivious to the law, but I hate to see someone get a ticket. (The couple that replied, I sent a note with the federal law attached. Not one responded.)

Do you inform the people that they are breaking the law or just let come what may? What would you do??
(I never really considered calling the DNR on them)
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Do just as Tim suggests, a quick note that says... "do you know..." and leave it at that, anyone ignorant of the law would do well to get such a heads up.

T
 
The origin of the Migratory Bird Convention with Great Britain on behalf of Canada in 1916 (which lead to the Migratory Bird Treaty Act on 1918) was unregulated killing of migratory birds for commercial purposes. Those purposes included millinery trade (feathers, wings, bodies for women's hats and other finery), market hunting for restaurants, and inconsistent and uncoordinated harvest by the states that was leading to population declines. It remains illegal to sell, barter or do trade with migratory birds, their parts, eggs or nests. I personally think that the total prohibition of any commercial trade with birds and their parts has helped bird conservation and management tremendously. You can look to commercial interests in fishing and big-game for some examples of issues that bird conservation has never had to deal with because of this prohibition.
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"with Great Britain on behalf of Canada in 1916" - thanks Brad, that was beautiful, I love it. I usually just say "with Canada in about 1917".
 
All the stuff going on in this world, a waterfowl mount sting seems way down the list... travis
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I really don't understand the mentality. #1 it is a Federal law... why should it be overlooked? #2 Isn't it the job of the Federal Wardens to enforce these laws? #3 What is going on in the world that is so different than what has gone on in the last century? Wars have started, been fought, and ended... the economy has gone up and down...people have lived, gotten married, had babies, and died... so what is different now?
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You right about #1 and #2. It is law, and there are peoples who job is to enforce those laws, not me. As far as #3 whats is going on that is so different? Really? People get shot over parking spaces in front of their kids... nobody is out to kill the last buffalo. The world has changed an incredible amount in the last centry. My grandfather was a market hunter... long after the storied punts guns of chesapeke bay and waterfowl treaties where signed and nash buckingham was gettin poled around by an indentured servant, he was killing and selling ducks to provide for his family. The laws where enacted to stop that. And it took them 5 decades or longer to do it. Somebody selling some old mounts is NOT the same thing. You run across a bald eagle or a condor mount, call the authorties and I'll back your play. But patrolling the net for a slip up on a non threatned species and playing robo cop aint for me. Wanna call the law on someone, sit at a gas station for the 20 minutes it'd take to see a drunk come in and buy more beer... you'd be doing a greater service for humainty than worring about a waterfowl mount. Thats my mentaility and belief. With no more time or resources advaible to me, I could find more serious game violations with almost no effort to pursue. Im all for enforcing the law, but the real violators aren't selling mounts 1 or 2 at a time on ebay. The real violators are going to know enough about the law to not get caught by some lazy azz buracrate at a computer screen, but efforts to stop stuff like that are more likely to snag people from collatoral damage than any real game violators. I have the utmost respect for most game and fish enforcement, more so for state than federal generally but thats because of their typical personailtiies. And in my mind, a federal warden answering phone calls about duck mounts on the internet for sale, or even worst, posing as a seller to sting someone, is riduculous. And I dont typically involve myself in something thats ridiculous.

I understand a lot of people aren't comfortable with my answer. Its not the popular thing to say... everyone on the net, heck everyone anytime you ask someone anywhere, is going to answer in the most postive light they can about themselves. A what would you do thread where everyone says they'd be don quiotxe would be quite boring.... what would you do if a zombie honey badger was mauling your neighbors kid... heck only 2 answers die with the kid or poop yourself as you run away. Quite a boring thread indeed.

In a perfect world, all wrongs could be righted. We do not live in a perfect world. Expecting it to be so and pretending we can make it that way will only result in disapointment. We live in a great world, where people can still stand up for right. They can't if they spent all their time and resources standing up for what doesnt really matter. Thats my mentailty and where Im coming from. Not trying to sell you on it, just trying to show you the honesty in it. travis
 
My point was, it doesn't matter how the world has changed... The purpose of the Fed Warden is not to patrol parking lots to keep people from shooting each other. Thier emplyment purpose is to enforce the game laws, etc.... I personally don't have an issue with the law. If people really think it is an outdated law, get it changed....right is right.....wrong is wrong. It really isn't difficult.

BTW- I probably would inform the individual of the legal nature of their sale. Except on Craigslist. to many scams on their.
 
but phil, you just answered the same as me. 'Id inform the poster, except on craigslist'. We just drew different lines where how much trouble we'd go thru. You're afraid of a scam, im afraid of involvment. Id get involved on something i felt was a real crime, or someone getting hurt, but wouldnt blink hard at what I percive as a victimless crime... you'd get involved unless it was at a place where scams are rampant. Same answer, different lines in the sand. I aint complaining about the interweb, heck I got 85,000 pounds coming to me from a niagrena prince just this week... but this interweb has a wonderful way of people being better than they are, if it didnt there'd be 10 fourms about skybusting for every duck boat forum! ha.

Now answer the question... neighbors kid being mauled by a zombie honey badger... whutyado? travis
 
The origin of the Migratory Bird Convention with Great Britain on behalf of Canada in 1916 (which lead to the Migratory Bird Treaty Act on 1918) was unregulated killing of migratory birds for commercial purposes. Those purposes included millinery trade (feathers, wings, bodies for women's hats and other finery), market hunting for restaurants, and inconsistent and uncoordinated harvest by the states that was leading to population declines. It remains illegal to sell, barter or do trade with migratory birds, their parts, eggs or nests. I personally think that the total prohibition of any commercial trade with birds and their parts has helped bird conservation and management tremendously. You can look to commercial interests in fishing and big-game for some examples of issues that bird conservation has never had to deal with because of this prohibition.
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"with Great Britain on behalf of Canada in 1916" - thanks Brad, that was beautiful, I love it. I usually just say "with Canada in about 1917".
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Well Todd if you read the Treaty you'll see it was signed with Great Britain. Its funny when you see the actual diplomatic titles.
 
Now answer the question... neighbors kid being mauled by a zombie honey badger... whutyado? travis
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"Honey badgers often become serious poultry predators. Because of their strength and persistance, they are difficult to deter. They are known to rip thick planks from hen-houses or burrow underneath stone foundations. Surplus killing is common during these events, with one incident resulting in the death of 17 Muscovy ducks and 36 pullets.
Because of the toughness and looseness of their skin, honey badgers are very difficult to kill with dogs. Their skin is hard to penetrate, and its looseness allows them to twist and turn on their attackers when held. The only safe grip on a honey badger is on the back of the neck. The skin is also tough enough to resist several machete blows. The only sure way of killing them quickly is through a blow to the skull with a club or a shot to the head with a powerful rifle, as their skin is almost immune to arrows and spears"

Depends... Is the badger in question in possession of a Muscovy duck mount purchased illegally on Craig's List?

Hehehe.... What has search overload done to us, indeed!?


 
Travis, I guess my position is that I don't think it is a waste of time to enforce the law, and I don't view it to be a bad law. I am not afraid of a scam... I just really don't care id someone gets pinched for breaking the law. Sucks for the people that are trying to dispose of a relatives mount..... but, that is life.

As far as the Zombie Honey Badger... you shoot them in the head like any Zombie.
 
Now answer the question... neighbors kid being mauled by a zombie honey badger... whutyado? travis
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"Honey badgers often become serious poultry predators. Because of their strength and persistance, they are difficult to deter. They are known to rip thick planks from hen-houses or burrow underneath stone foundations. Surplus killing is common during these events, with one incident resulting in the death of 17 Muscovy ducks and 36 pullets.
Because of the toughness and looseness of their skin, honey badgers are very difficult to kill with dogs. Their skin is hard to penetrate, and its looseness allows them to twist and turn on their attackers when held. The only safe grip on a honey badger is on the back of the neck. The skin is also tough enough to resist several machete blows. The only sure way of killing them quickly is through a blow to the skull with a club or a shot to the head with a powerful rifle, as their skin is almost immune to arrows and spears"

Depends... Is the badger in question in possession of a Muscovy duck mount purchased illegally on Craig's List?

Hehehe.... What has search overload done to us, indeed!?

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Badgers?! Badgers! We don't need no stinking badgers in this thread!
 
dang i lost my post!

bwhahahahahaha, zombie honey badger in possision of a muscoy duck mount. now thats discussion. part of my plans for world domination include an army of zombie honey badgers trained by chuck norris and commanded by a chupacabra... but I digress. To say anymore Id have to include you in world power, or kill you. Me thinks I rather not do either! bwhahahahaha.

Phil, ya can't shoot them in the head. You posted a gun for sale on a website and someone called the law, and an over zealous local leo consifciatied all your guns until the mess could be sorted out. Its just you, little timmy, and a zombie honey badger. Do you die with the boy, or poop yourself running away? You know your bare hands are no match for a normal honey badger, let alone a rouge zombie honey badger thats already tasted human blood. Secondly, if I killed a zombie honey badger (I still got my guns because i didnt get involved with a transaction on the interweb), would you mount it for me, knowing its illegal to possess any part of an undead creature. I mean, I saved little timmy, shouldnt I get the conversation peice of a mount?

Its actually a trick question because as soon as you save little timmy, hes gonna go fall in the well.

tim most threads need more badger, like most songs need more cowbell!

Can mounts be given away? Do they count in your possession limit? can I own a mount not legal in this country, without documtation where it came from or am I breaking the law simply having that mount? Can I throw a mount away and be ticketed for wanton waste? Selling mounts might seem like a big deal, but if EVERY mounted duck was sold, it would be such a small % of birds comapred to how many illegaly taken, wasted cripples, and ducks not consumed by hunters it wouldnt even compute. Its just not a big enough # to matter (assuming normal game specis) in the grand scheme of things. Should the law be changed, I think not, it might create a demand and increase the %. travis
 
Well if I don't have a gun, then you kick them in the head like on Resident Evil! or Drop a big rock on them... but if Timmy gets bitten, you will have to take him out too, as he will soon turn in to a zombie as well.

Yes mounts may be given a way. No they do not count as part of a possession limit. Not sure about a mount that is not legal in this country. Wanton waste has nothing to do with the feathers/skin. It has to do with the meat, or more specifically the lack of effort to retrieve a downed bird. Well what if you could sell mounts... do you think someone would go a shoot speckled eiders, and sell them? possibly..... which could have a large impact on endanged species... or how about King Eiders... I would LOVE to have one on the wall, but the $6-$8000 to hunt Alaska is out of my budget right now. How much could people make by putting the hurt on the Kings... Sell the mounts, and decimate the population....????? Harli's would be another example.... IMO
 
The origin of the Migratory Bird Convention with Great Britain on behalf of Canada in 1916 (which lead to the Migratory Bird Treaty Act on 1918) was unregulated killing of migratory birds for commercial purposes. Those purposes included millinery trade (feathers, wings, bodies for women's hats and other finery), market hunting for restaurants, and inconsistent and uncoordinated harvest by the states that was leading to population declines. It remains illegal to sell, barter or do trade with migratory birds, their parts, eggs or nests. I personally think that the total prohibition of any commercial trade with birds and their parts has helped bird conservation and management tremendously. You can look to commercial interests in fishing and big-game for some examples of issues that bird conservation has never had to deal with because of this prohibition.
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Thanks for that post Brad, it gave me a different perspective I hadn't considered.
Beings we live, hunt and likely fish much of the same areas, I totally get your comparison of possibilty that we see in the local fishing "industries" be it commercial or tribal.
I did, on one occasion, in the past, see a post on a local forum. The poster was discussing shooting crows. The individual was obviously not a "fowler" so I PM'd him, to inform him that crow are covered under migratory bird regs. I informed him he would have to wait until the opener and also be licensed and validated for crows. It is amazing how many people haven't a clue about the legalities of hunting crow.
On the other end of the spectrum, I saw an ad on Craigslist I thought was so blatant that I assumed it was a "sting" operation. An individual advertised 2dz mounter goose deeks for sale. They priced them cheap enough to tempt many people I'm sure.
I assumed it was a "sting" because it stayed up for 2 weeks. In other words, it was renewed at least once. I didn't see any point in sending a warning to LEO that it was illegal.
 
I agree, laws did help wildlife in the past, but they seem outdated. The argument that wildlife may not be sold in a regulated manner is idiotic imo. Any visit to Ebay in UK would show all sorts of taxidermy items for sale with no impact on wildlife. What I do feel is more important is the growing trend of outlaws in quasi wildlife crimes. California has Mexican gangs poaching in the woods while cultivating marijauna on public land. How would you like to be the birdhunter that stumbles upon that scene?What ticks me off is that when they shoot black bear with no license (in the summertime) the charges get dropped due to the illegal status of immigration. It is such a sigh of relief that they(G&F) hand heavy fines to someone who sells a duck mount. The migratory bird act should be repealed along with the Lacey act. With a growing number of hunters leaving the field, it is my hope that F&G recognizes the trend and realizes that what once applied is now moot. Take the Gunnison Sage grouse, ya can't shoot them, but raptors regularly take em. Same as the the California Condor-a Golden eagles favorite snack. The same can be applied to the Spotted owl, in 2007 the forest service proposed a shooting of Barred Owls because they killed the Spotted Owl. A state by state regulation is much more effective. For all of the legislation trails reality: Habitat is lost by civilization. Disney killed more critters by taking massive amounts of water from the Everglades.. but jobs are the result. In the future, animals will become extinct due to politically correct protocal. I am waitng to see how the wolves in yellowstone affect the elk and grizzly. I can sum it up best as being a hunter who does not float with the current like a dead fish.
 
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