Advice for a newbie on a Devlin repair/restoration

I appreciate the continued advice and encouragement. I really have no idea what I'm doing so it's good to hear nothing I've done is too far wrong to this point. The inside of the hull does have areas with differences in the surface elevation, so I will plan to fill those in as well. One thing I'm having a heck of a time finding right now (for obvious reasons) is a good 3M half face respirator. I guess I picked a bad time to start a duck boat project.
 
Saturday was a good day for progress. I was up early to beat the heat, and was able to get all the fiberglass laid on the rail. I used 8" fiberglass tape from US composites, I think it is 8oz. cloth. I got it all down, then waited until it was tacky and went back with a second layer of epoxy. This was my first time working with fiberglass, and it was definitely a learning experience. It is very far from perfect, but it could have gone worse too I suppose. I've got some air bubbles that I'm going to have to address, and the corners aren't great.

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One thing I'm not sure I should have was to cut a few slices (darts?) in areas I was having trouble getting it to lay flat because of the curve of the boat. There weren't any issues on the vertical surface of the rail, but on the top deck and on a few places on the hull it seemed like a good idea. You can see a few of these in the below picture. They don't seem to have created too bad of an issue, just some raised areas of overlap, but I'm hoping I don't regret doing that.

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One issue that I'm going to have to address is the edge of the glass tape. Instead of sitting down flat, in some areas it appears to be curled/turned up a little bit to create a small ridge. I think it was well saturated with epoxy and wasn't an issue of it not being wetted out.

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Is it a bad idea to sand this ridge down some before working with the fairing compound to smooth everything out? I don't want to damage the fiberglass, but it seems like a good option. My plan was to spend some time cleaning things up in areas it is needed along the rail with fairing compound, sand it, then come back with at least one more layer of epoxy to try and fill all of the grid of the tape.
 
Steve or anyone else with experience with this - Can you summarize your installation process for the Beckson deck plates? I've got the holes cut and the 6" plates dry fitted into my sponsons. I imagine I should predrill all the fastener holes. I'm thinking I should probably give the fresh cut wood on the transom a coat of epoxy? I was thinking of using thickened epoxy to bed in the deck plate, but I was thinking somewhere I saw that you like to use a silicone product?
Thanks in advance.
 
Richard~


Yes, I recommend you seal the wood - both the face and the end grain.


I fasten with s/s screws after bedding in a silicone caulk. No need for epoxy as the screws keep it in place and the caulk keeps it waterproof.





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I do like to put some Lanolin on the threads of the actual deck plate - to ease future unscrewing. Plumbers Grease would work as well.


All the best,


SJS

 
Hi Richard,really nice rebuild you have going there. I think you'll have a great, tight rig when you're done.

For glassing around tight radius structures, like deck to hull, you might want to try cutting biaxial strips from your cloth, presuming you have cloth and not precut tape. If you roll out the cloth on a table, put a straight edge across at a 45 deg. angle, and cut strips on the bias at whatever width you want. You'll find the biax lays right around those corners, with no puckering. I do this with the leading edges of sailboat foils, like daggers and rudders, and it works great. If you make a wet out table, you can pre-wet the strips of glass and roll them right out on the boat. The other tip I have, is to use a carbide scraper, about 2" wide, to cut down the hard edge "bump" that you get from a selvedge tape edge, or any thick overlap of cloth. Faster than sanding, and no dust.

Steve's method for installing Beckson plates is exactly what I do as well, whether in a wood bulkhead, or in a fiberglass deck.

Going back a ways in your process, for filling old screw holes and such, I like to rip a 3/16" or so strip of soft wood, and make plugs by sharpening the ends a little, cutting to length (say 1"). Dip the plug in epoxy, and drive it into the hole, trimming flush after curing. That way, you don't have to worry about a big air pocket half way down the hole when using putty alone. Just my 2 cents worth on that point.

Get this one done, and build yourself a new boat, selling off the restored gem to finance the new one. I've been doing that for years to keep the chain of boats flowing.

Cheers!
Jim
 
The recommendations are much appreciated Steve and Jim. I'm still fumbling my way along, but making some progress. My workmanship is probably a step above questionable, so having a boat that lacks good finish is great place for me to learn some things without feeling too bad about the results. I'm pretty close to wrapping up all the work reg-glassing the rail, I've got a coat of epoxy on the interior of the hull and did some fairing to level out the worn areas, and I've got both sponson deck plates ready to be fastened and sealed.

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As soon as I work out how to get this boat flipped over, I can get to work on repairing the strakes, which is the last major repair. I've got lots of other projects planned but it will be good it get all the real issues with the boat addressed. I need to decide on a paint color soon and get that ordered. I'm going to go with FME, either open water grey or dead grass green. I like the traditional look of the DGG, but the grey seems like a good option for the bigger reservoirs I'll be using this boat most.
 
Good morning, Richard~


Congratulations on all of your progress!


re paint color: I think either the Dead Grass or the Grey would be fine for open water gunning. You could even use a combination - in large bold patches - to break up the apparent shape.




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If you use this vessel to hunt marshes for puddlers, I also think either color would be fine because I would want to cover most of the boat and motor will vegetation (natural or store-bought). The 2 dimensions of even the most creative and well-executed paint scheme can never compare with the 3 dimensions of grasses rushes or brush.


Before your finish coats, you may want to decide how you might attach other "hide" materials in the future. Even a system of eye straps - to serve as lashing points for shock cord et cetera - could prove mighty useful down the road. Of course, all other deck appurtenances - cleats, fairleads, grab rail, toe rails, lights, et cetera - should be bedded and installed before final paint.


All the best,


SJS





 
Another day means another few questions for the group. I managed to get the boat flipped over to get a better look at the hull tonight. That was an interesting exercise solo. The bad news is after poking around the strakes further, I decided the two outside ones will probably need to be removed and replaced. Quite a bit of the fillets were cracked and peeling away, and there were some softer spots of wood that didn't look great. Some of the screw holes were also a bit of a mess, and I wasn't sure I was going to be able to get them sealed properly to make sure water didn't get into the hull plywood.

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I've made it about half to 3/4 through the process of removing one, and I'm "mildly" regretting that decision. I feel good about getting those broken off screws removed and being able to get the holes filled and sealed correctly, but whatever adhesive the builder used to glue down the strakes is making it more than a little bit difficult. You can see the adhesive in the picture below. So far the hull seems to be mostly unaffected from the removal and in great shape, except for one area that I'll need to patch some fiberglass that got damaged from some over-ambitious strake removal. Any thoughts on what I should try to remove this adhesive? Seems like it will be a disaster to try to sand or scrape it off. The nails in the picture are just so I don't lose track of where the screw holes are btw, in case they have you wondering what the heck I've got going on there.



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The other bad news is there are some areas (like the one in the above picture) on the hull that the paint is flaking of pretty easily, so I guess I've got plenty of sanding to do still. The top deck where I wanted the paint gone it was about impossible to remove. Hopefully the progress this weekend goes a little smoother.

I'd appreciate hearing preferences or suggestions for the type of wood I should be looking for to replace these strakes (and grass rails I'd like to install). Using the search function, it seems like mahogany is a pretty popular option. I've found a local hardwood supplier that seems to have a pretty good list of wood species available.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions on adhesive removal or strake wood type.
 
Good morning, Richard~


Glad you got your vessel flipped without incident.


re Adhesive removal: I'm guessing it is 3M 5200 or Sikaflex or something similar. Have you tried heat? Either an electric heat gun or a propane torch (my choice) along with a stiff putty knife and/or paint scraper could be very helpful. If you cannot get the boat outside, though, be sure to set up a fan to exhaust any fumes.


re Strake lumber: You need a lumber that is clear and straight-grained, at least moderately hard, and, if not rot-resistant, at least not rot-prone. I have used: Philippine Mahogany, treated SYP (Southern Yellow Pine), vertical grain Douglasfir, and White Oak. There may be other tropical hardwoods - like ipe - that I have not used. Also, it may be that some artificial deck materials - perhaps Trex - could be a good choice. I have no experience with such materials so I will let others weigh in. I do not know, for example, if Trex can hold fasteners. (BTW: PVC lumber per se is not dense enough for this use, in my experience.)



I mostly use the Mahogany because my local lumber yard has it on hand for decking. It is always clear, I can hand-pick for straight grain, it is medium density, machines well, holds fastenings nicely, and is moderately rot-resistant. It also use it for thatch rails and some framing.


For strakes, I would shape and sand each piece, seal with 3 coats or straight epoxy, then bed onto the hull with 3M 5200. If you will be putting metal (aluminum or brass) runners on the strakes, I would pre-drill the holes before applying the final coat of epoxy.



Note: When sanding epoxy between coats, first make sure the epoxy is fully cured. A day out in sunshine is very effective usually. Then, instead of sandpaper right away, I begin with a very sharp scraper and a light touch to smooth out the roughness. Then I hand sand with 80-grit making sure not to wear through to bare wood. Wipe lightly with acetone before applying next coat.


Hope this helps!


SJS


 
Rich

I can't give you any advice above and beyond the excellent help you are already getting from Steve and others. But I wanted you to welcome you to our cozy little corner of the internet. You should enjoy this group, and I am sure they'll will enjoy your contributions once you get finished with the boat.

Brad
 
I was able to get the the remaining strake sections removed this afternoon. The paint scraper and multi-tool approach worked pretty well overall. I would tap the paint scraper between the strake and the hull to separate/cut the adhesive, and work my way along with that. When I got to a broken off screw I would use the multi-tool to cut vertically through the wood just past the screw, and then unscrew the section by rotating it until the screw was out. On sections with lots of broken off screws, it got a bit tedious, but otherwise wasn't too bad.

I appreciate the suggestions to try heat for adhesive removal Steve, I gave it a try on a section. It worked really well on the adhesive, but I'm a little worried I did some damage to the underlying fiberglass and epoxy (picture below). I was thinking about putting another layer of glass over these areas so not exactly a disaster I don't think, but also not what I was hoping for either. I imagine this is something you have quite a bit of experience using on glass Steve, maybe I just need to be more conservative on the amount of heat I used? It wasn't much just a few seconds from the torch. It was also pretty amazing how easily the remaining fillet material and paint cleaned up with the heat.

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I was also able to locate a local hardwood shop and picked up a piece of african mahogany for the replacement strakes. Might be the nicest piece of wood on the entire boat, but I figured if I was going to all this trouble to replace them there was no sense going to the bargain bin for the lumber. I'm having trouble finding 1/2" stainless wood screws that look to be thick enough to keep the aluminum rail attached well, so that is next on the list.

One last question for you today Steve. I was thinking somewhere I read that Devlin suggested using thickened epoxy to adhere the strakes to the hull. Is there an advantage to going with the 5200 instead? I was planning to use that to attach the aluminum rail to the strake, but the epoxy for the attachment to the boat. If I did go the epoxy route, does it need to be wood flour thickened vs the fairing compound I've been using elsewhere? If so I will need to order some wood flour. I didn't see where US Composites had it available when I did my order.

Thanks as always.
 
Good morning, Richard~


I applaud your "whatever works" process for removing the strakes. Tedious but effective - and very familiar!


re heat-treated areas: Epoxy breaks down under lower heats than does polyester. Nevertheless, I would be tempted to simply re-coat the areas with new epoxy before fastening the strakes. Why do you think the 'glass itself may have suffered?


re fastening the new strakes: You might as well follow Devlin's instructions and use thickened epoxy. US Composites has both Cabosil/Aerosil and milled fibers. http://www.uscomposites.com/fillers.html


I would mix up a batch that contained both fillers - to the "stiff peanut butter" consistency. Note, though, the warning that it will cure very hard. So, you will need to shape the exposed fillets at the edges of each strake very carefully - to their desired shape and appearance - before the epoxy cures. This is very similar to what you would do with the 5200 - so not a big difference.


Hope this helps!


SJS


 
The shape of the strokes that you removed is a poor one, so I would modify if you can moving forward. The exposed radii of the wood catch wear. Much better is the metal facing full width to hide all the wood. I?ve done both and the difference is dramatic.

Plans and progress look great.
 
Thank you Steve. I went ahead and ordered those fillers and will plan to use that method to attach the new strakes. I was able to finish up the adhesive removal this morning using the torch method. It went pretty well after I got the hang of it.

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There were a few areas where the glass looks to have been cut while I was removing the strakes and pulled away from the hull a bit when I applied the heat, and there was one area that I think I was too aggressive with my heat or scraper and the glass looks pretty rough (pictures below). I think your suggested process of just re-epoxying the area should take care of most of this, but would like your input as well.

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Last question (for now), do you generally come back and use some sort of adhesive remover or cleaner before you epoxy the area again?

Thanks again for the continued advice.
 
Tod,
Is your suggestion to not round over the edges of the strake at all, and keep them square and the width of the aluminum rail? The strakes I removed are approximately 1.5" wide, but with beveled edges there wasn't much of the bottom surface that wasn't covered by the aluminum.

Thanks,

Rich
 
Richard S said:
Tod,
Is your suggestion to not round over the edges of the strake at all, and keep them square and the width of the aluminum rail? The strakes I removed are approximately 1.5" wide, but with beveled edges there wasn't much of the bottom surface that wasn't covered by the aluminum.

Thanks,

Rich

That style of strake with rounded edges and metal results in unnecessary wear to the strake from what I've seen. If your aluminum is 1.5, your strake should be 1.5". I like a wider strake, but that is just me.
 
Richard S said:
Thank you Steve.

There were a few areas where the glass looks to have been cut while I was removing the strakes and pulled away from the hull a bit when I applied the heat, and there was one area that I think I was too aggressive with my heat or scraper and the glass looks pretty rough (pictures below). I think your suggested process of just re-epoxying the area should take care of most of this, but would like your input as well.

Your photos clearly show where the glass fibers have separated. IMHO any time the glass fibers have been compromised, new glass needs to be added. One cannot just reapply fresh resin. There is no structural strength in just resin.
 
Richard~


Your fine workmanship continues!


3 things:


1) If in doubt, remove the weakened cloth and replace with new. You may need to use the Fsairing Compound so that everything is nice and flat when ready for the new strakes.


2) I like Tod's suggestion of "flat-topped" (bottom, actually) sectional shape for the strakes - to match the width of the metal "shoe". This is how I have seen and made ice runners on Great South Bay Scooters.


3) Acetone is the standard clean-up solvent for prepping 'glasswork. However, if the adhesive residue does not respond to Acetone, I would not hesitate to try Lacquer Thinner. Beware, though, either solvent should only be used via a dampened rag on new work - whereas a sopping approach is usually OK on older surfaces.


All the best,


SJS


 
Hi Steve, quick question for you. My shipment of Cabosil and milled fiber was delivered today. Do you have a suggested ratio of the two when adding to the epoxy? Should they be used in approximately equal amounts?

I wasn't able to get a ton of work done in the last week, but I did cross a few other things off the list. The new mahogany strakes are cut to size and the first layer of epoxy went on today. I found some 1.5" aluminum bar so I'm planning to go that route instead of the beveled edges. I got the aluminum drilled, then sanded both sides, so a few more layers of epoxy and pre-drilling the wood and these should be ready to go.

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I decided to go ahead and put a new layer of fiberglass on the area under the strakes that I had problems with, so most of my work this week was sanding and smoothing to get ready for that. The new fiberglass went on this morning and went relatively well. If all goes well, I'm hoping to have the new strakes on in the next week.

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The paint was also delivered this week. I decided to go with FME #28 Dead Grass Green. I'd like to go ahead and paint the hull before flipping it back over, and starting work on other projects.
 
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