Advice on sneakbox - AA Broadbill or MLB Wigeon

S

Scott Gilliland

Member
Hi,

I'm looking for some advice on selecting a sneakbox. I retired recently and moved to Québec where we have a cabin on the Lac St. Pierre, I have several boats, and access to a few more, but you can never have too many. There can be some great opportunities to hunt divers on the lake. The serious diver hunters run sinkboxes here. We have 3 layouts (Banks Pumpkinseed, Lake Bonnville, and a homebuilt Erie style double). The problem with divers is you need a dedicated crew and most my friends are focused on puddle ducks. I tried hunting out of the layout single handed - it can work when you can wade, but it is not ideal. I'm looking for an option to hunt divers by myself. I need room for me and a 80 lb lab.

I've been thinking about a sneakbox that has an option to have an outboard, but maybe just poled or rowed, and that could be used as a layout. It would be nice to have the option for an outboard but I think if I tried to use it as a layout I'd loose the outboard. I have a 22' Stanley Pulsecraft and have the option to tow or just carry it like a layout.

There are two options for sale around me: the MLB Widgeon and the AA Broadbill. Asking price is similar for both. The Widgeon needs a bit of fibreglass work and a paint job, the Broadbill looks to be in excellent shape and ready to go. Both would need to have oar locks added. I like the idea of the Widgeon: it is small and maybe easier to hunt as a layout. But there are lots of places were the boat could be used as a traditional sneakbox and I like that the Broadbill has the option for two.

Sneakboxes are a relatively new type of boat for me and I've read though the forum to learn as much as I could, but it did not help me with my decision. I'm leaning towards the Broadbill as it looks to have more options and is in better condition. I'd appreciate advice, pros/cons on selection.

Thanks
Scott
 
Welcome to the DHBP Scott!
Someone will jump in here an offer some advice!
 
Carl said:
Welcome to the DHBP Scott!
Someone will jump in here an offer some advice!
Click to expand...
I've been lurking for a long time becasue I'm interested in ducks and boats. I was the waterfowl biologist in Newfoundland & Labrador for most of my career and these are not the kind of boats we use for hunting eiders in the Atlantic. I think they will work here.

Thanks Carl,
Scott
 
Scott Gilliland said:
Hi,

I'm looking for some advice on selecting a sneakbox. I retired recently and moved to Québec where we have a cabin on the Lac St. Pierre, I have several boats, and access to a few more, but you can never have too many. There can be some great opportunities to hunt divers on the lake. The serious diver hunters run sinkboxes here. We have 3 layouts (Banks Pumpkinseed, Lake Bonnville, and a homebuilt Erie style double). The problem with divers is you need a dedicated crew and most my friends are focused on puddle ducks. I tried hunting out of the layout single handed - it can work when you can wade, but it is not ideal. I'm looking for an option to hunt divers by myself. I need room for me and a 80 lb lab.

I've been thinking about a sneakbox that has an option to have an outboard, but maybe just poled or rowed, and that could be used as a layout. It would be nice to have the option for an outboard but I think if I tried to use it as a layout I'd loose the outboard. I have a 22' Stanley Pulsecraft and have the option to tow or just carry it like a layout.

There are two options for sale around me: the MLB Widgeon and the AA Broadbill. Asking price is similar for both. The Widgeon needs a bit of fibreglass work and a paint job, the Broadbill looks to be in excellent shape and ready to go. Both would need to have oar locks added. I like the idea of the Widgeon: it is small and maybe easier to hunt as a layout. But there are lots of places were the boat could be used as a traditional sneakbox and I like that the Broadbill has the option for two.

Sneakboxes are a relatively new type of boat for me and I've read though the forum to learn as much as I could, but it did not help me with my decision. I'm leaning towards the Broadbill as it looks to have more options and is in better condition. I'd appreciate advice, pros/cons on selection.

Thanks
Scott
Click to expand...
Just a few items for thought, is the broadbill the factory built arthur Armstrong version? As there was plans sold for those as well and many are fiberglass over Wood. Which generally requires more maintenance.

I'm familiar with both vessels, if I had the choice I would go with a factory built arthur Armstrong. It's a little bit roomier, and I believe will handle any type of snotty weather a bit better.
 
At first glimpse I thought the broadbill was factory, but looking at the pictures I believe it is marine plywood construction. Looks like very good work.Broadbill interior Transom.jpgbroadbill rear view.jpg
 
Scott

That is a home-built boat. It is 14' and a bit bigger than the 12' MLB widgeon. I owned a factory Broadbill but sold it after a few hair-raising experiences and built a Devlin. The AA Broadbill is a good hunting boat and very effective, but not very good in white-caps. I've not been in the MLB widgeon but do own a very similar boat (Field & Stream Scaup designed by Harry Magargee) that is hanging from my rafters awaiting completion. I can't say how good it is in rough water but suspect it is better based on the fact the hull has rocker while the Broadbill is dead flat from the transom to more than midship forward. The Broadbill does have a much larger cockpit are more area under the decks. But the MLB widgeon, and other more traditional sneak boxes get by using decoy racks on the back deck for storage.

I think the question you need to ask yourself is are you okay owning a wood boat and can you maintain it. In that vein I'd want to know if the Broadbill was built with epoxy (best) or polyester resin (pass on it) and how well it was glassed, if at all. I've seen a lot of steps skipped by home builders so you have to look very close at the construction details and materials used to see if the boat is going to last and how much care it will take. One big question is where you will store it. A wooden boat stored indoors is way less upkeep than one stored outside. A wood boat stored outside without a cover is destined to require much more maintenance or succumb to the elements. How was the boat you are considering stored? How will you store it?

The MLB Widgeon does have one issue that has been reported here. The glass on the hull was thin leading to unacceptable flexing as reported by some owners. There was a recent thread on this that I've linked below. You can probably find more info with the search tool.

I hope this helps. These boats are great tools and open the doors to hunt ways you may very much enjoy. Ways that others can't. But I have to caution you because many times used boats are actually project boats that need time and money. You have to do your research to avoid being the guy with a damaged hull and no means or skills to repair it.

Zach Taylor widgeon by mighty layout boys HELP

Pictures below, I have just purchased a Zach Taylor widgeon made by the layout boys. I was told that it was a great dual purpose hull. I was told I could get the best advice on this forum. I have a couple questions any info personal input or advice on this boat would be appreciated. I plan to...
duckboats.net duckboats.net
 
Scott

I just reread your info and see you will tow the boat and hunt it w/o power. That being the case I suspect the MLB widgeon, although smaller, will ride waves better than the AA Broadbill. Not 100% sure and have been wrong plenty of times in the past, but that's my hunch, for it's worth. Just what kind of seas are you hunting?
 
Thanks for the very thoughtful comments Eric. I do have the option to tow, or for the Widgeon I could even pull it in my boat and carry it like a layout. I do like the option of using it as a traditional sneakbox with a small outboard too. I also looked at the Devlin designs many times over the years and I even ordered plans for the Cackler and Snow Goose when I was in Newfoundland. I never built them, but I thought about them a lot. A wooden boat does not scare me. I love wooden boats, but your point about storage is well taken. I did see that post about potential issues with the soft floors in the Widgeons. There looked to be a fairly easy fix posted by Steve Sanford. I did talk to the current owner of the broadbill and he did not build the boat, is there an easy way to identify between Epoxy and Polyester resin?

The Lac St. Pierre is a large body of water that is part of the St. Lawrence River. It is about 30 km long and 5 km wide. Our cabin is in the middle of the delta at the inflow to the Lake. There are lots of shallow marshes and bays where the divers sometimes hang out. Last year we found a few 1000 scaups in some of the impoundments in the Southside of the river/lake. The lake itself has some excellent diver hunting, we've tried our layouts and they are not all that effective. The serious diver hunters use sink boxes on the lake -- it's big water and can get very rough. Not Newfoundland rough - but nasty all the same. I have a big Stanley Pulsecraft and have yet to see conditions on the lake that would keep me in the cabin. I've attached a couple of pictures of a local sink box -- I know you guys are not allow to use them in the US. I've had opportunity to hunt from them and there's not better way to hunt divers. But they are not something you can use last minute. You need a committed crew to maintain one.

Anyway, there are lots of large impoundments and large marshes that can be accessed on the south side of the lake that a sneakbox with an outboard might be very effective. I already have a 15 Suzuki and was thinking it would be a good fit for the Bluebill and like the option to hunt two people. Now I have to choose.

Thanks again
Scott
lac st. pierre.jpg

IMG_2296.jpegIMG_2290.jpegIMG_2288.jpeg
 
Scott

If you need a boat for two then the AA Broadbill is the winner. I can't think of a good non-destructive way to tell if the AA builder used epoxy or poly. Usually sanding on the glass will admit an aroma that will indicate which. Poly has that sweet smell of curing resin, while epoxy offers little for the nose.

That sounds like a great area to hunt. A freelancers delight.
 
Scott Gilliland said:
Hi,

I'm looking for some advice on selecting a sneakbox. I retired recently and moved to Québec where we have a cabin on the Lac St. Pierre, I have several boats, and access to a few more, but you can never have too many. There can be some great opportunities to hunt divers on the lake. The serious diver hunters run sinkboxes here. We have 3 layouts (Banks Pumpkinseed, Lake Bonnville, and a homebuilt Erie style double). The problem with divers is you need a dedicated crew and most my friends are focused on puddle ducks. I tried hunting out of the layout single handed - it can work when you can wade, but it is not ideal. I'm looking for an option to hunt divers by myself. I need room for me and a 80 lb lab.

I've been thinking about a sneakbox that has an option to have an outboard, but maybe just poled or rowed, and that could be used as a layout. It would be nice to have the option for an outboard but I think if I tried to use it as a layout I'd loose the outboard. I have a 22' Stanley Pulsecraft and have the option to tow or just carry it like a layout.

There are two options for sale around me: the MLB Widgeon and the AA Broadbill. Asking price is similar for both. The Widgeon needs a bit of fibreglass work and a paint job, the Broadbill looks to be in excellent shape and ready to go. Both would need to have oar locks added. I like the idea of the Widgeon: it is small and maybe easier to hunt as a layout. But there are lots of places were the boat could be used as a traditional sneakbox and I like that the Broadbill has the option for two.

Sneakboxes are a relatively new type of boat for me and I've read though the forum to learn as much as I could, but it did not help me with my decision. I'm leaning towards the Broadbill as it looks to have more options and is in better condition. I'd appreciate advice, pros/cons on selection.

Thanks
Scott
Click to expand...
I,ve owned and hunted an aa blackjack. Very similar to broadbill but a ft. Shorter. Dont think you,ll be happy with smaller size of widgeon for what your after
 
Yeh ... it was easier when there were no options. I'm still leaning towards the broadbill. Although I'd be getting this for facilitate me hunting divers single handed, it is way more fun to hunt with a friend. Better for me to as I'm not as good a shot as I used to be.

Thanks Roy
 
Mr. Gilliland,

You are getting much valuable info from the correct folks on this subject. I hope it helps in your decision.

All I can offer is my personal experience with my old Glen L design Sneakbox that was about as lethal and safe a duckboat I have ever used.. It was a dream to row, not so much with a 5 1/2hp. 1955 Johnson trolling motor. BUT and this is an important "But" in rough water and correct heading it could withstand very shitty conditions. The vessels use must include patience and common sense for it to shine for what it IS. A boat that CAN handle about anything nature can throw at it (hence it's historic development and use).

The smaller the cockpit the better the sneakbox for safety and waterfowling use in my experience. Another hunter? NO. A dog? NO. Lots of decoys? NO. Everything inside and on top of the vessel is ballast do not ever forget that. NJ decoys are made to use in these vessels, and fit them perfectly for very good reasons. Took me awhile to realize that. I've admired NJ Sneakbox's, NJ Decoys and NJ Gunners for many a year. Having and using a sneakbox was a major accomplishment in my life. A dream come true.

You are very knowledgeable and experienced in the ways of waterfowl and how to hunt them. This is a major plus in your favor. Do not ask the vessel for more than it was designed for and you will be fine. The very cozy naps that you Will take while laying in a sneakbox awaiting birds to toll are as memorable as the shots taken. Enjoy it All while you can.

my 2 cents

Vince
 

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Thanks Vince,

I've done a lot of boating along the coasts of southwest New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, around a lot of Newfoundland and most of the coast of Labrador chasing ducks. Mostly catching them, but hunting too. Most recently I spent July travelling the south coast of Baffin Inland with the Inuit in their 22-24' freighter canoes. I think we covered 1700 km by canoe visiting about 30 eider colonies. Gained a lot of respect for the water over the years. One thing I'll say is the weather models are crazy good now. Not too often we get surprised by the weather.

Here is a pic of the canoes we used on Baffin - the 22' has a 70 hp and the 24'rs 90s. They are fast and the Inuit have used them to cross Hudson Straight from Cape Dorset to South Hampton Island to chase beluga - the closest crossing is 120 km across the Straight. Not for me... Anyway, as you say you need to know how to read the conditions and know your boat.

You left me with a very nice image of napping in the sneakbox,

Scott


IMG_2092.jpeg
 
Scott,

The places you have been and all the experiences you have had were always dreams of mine. That you have done and continue to do the things many of us wish we could makes me smile. Man O Man do I ever like that photo. There's a whole lot of knowledge and wisdom in that group of men. You Are Living the Dream.

Gawd do I like Eiders but never had the desire to shoot one, don't know that I could. What I do like is that they are, and that folks like you keep a eye on them. I get goose bumps thinking of the places you have been and the things you have Seen.

May your adventures in the sneakbox of your choice be enjoyable ones. A thermos of coffee or tea and "Sangwiches" of your choice for fuel are a must.


Best regards
Vince
 
Hi Vince,

I've been extremely fortunate. As I kid I fell in love with boats, islands and eiders. In 1985, I hear that there was some guy spending his summers working on islands in the Bay of Fundy, NB on eider ducks. I could not believe you could get paid to do that kind if work. I nagged him until I got the job and that was it. I've been working on ducks ever since and focused on the eiders and scoters.

Eider hunting is my favourite. My last eider hunt was in my home province was in 2011. There were signals that there were problems with eider in Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Maine, and by 2011, it was apparent that we'd lost a lot of birds. We do not know the whole story, but we are working on it. Eiders are doing OK here in Quebec, and were doing great in Newfoundland and Labrador, so the picture is not all bad.

We've initiated a large satellite tracking program on eiders and if you interested in the and their story, you can read a bit about our work on the Sea Duck Joint Venture website. We usually only communicate our work in scientific papers, conferences etc, and we are try\ing and reach out to a large community. In the last field season of my career at CWS I dragged a videographer around within we've compiled several short videos on the issues and some of our work. Here is the link. https://seaduckjv.org/where-have-all-the-eiders-gone/

Cheers
Scottt
 
Outstanding work and reports on the SDJV page! Some really interesting trends in hen survival and cool tracking data too.
 
Scott,

Thank you for the wealth of information. That you worked so hard nagging and doing whatever it took to obtain your dream job shows the passion and desire that was just the start of Living Your Life. I admire that.

In 42 years of making and carving decoys I've only made one Eider. I was compelled to do it just in case, and to add it to my canvas over wire decoy body of work. The decoy is shown here on the Flats of Havre de Grace during the old gunning decoy contest (far from it's home area of use). It rides like a battleship and did good at the contest. It now resides hanging in the attic with many other of my decoys awaiting the call to action.

Best regards
Vince
 

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Scott Gilliland said:
I've been lurking for a long time becasue I'm interested in ducks and boats. I was the waterfowl biologist in Newfoundland & Labrador for most of my career and these are not the kind of boats we use for hunting eiders in the Atlantic. I think they will work here.

Thanks Carl,
Scott
Click to expand...
Welcome Scott. I was born in St Johns, Newfoundland. I was born on an Air Force Base my dad was stationed at. I hope to take a trip there someday. I'll be 69 next month so I guess I better hurry. I'm sure nothing looks like the photographs I have. Lol. Reading your accounts brings back thoughts of things I thought about as a younger person. Really enjoyed reading.
 
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You will see lots of changes in St. John's. I left in 2012, bt I get back there almost every year and it's hard to believe howuch is has changed in such a short time. But the people are still great and there is no better place to be when the sun shines. You should make that trip Ed.
Scott
 
Scott, that picture of the Inuit and their freighter canoes tells a great tale of where you were. I wish I had something to add, but I have an AA Blackjack and had an AA Wigeon,and neither of those are the same as what you are looking at.
 
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