Advise wanted on hunting with old english hammer double

Dale Wilcox

Dale Wilcox

Member
I acquired this old 12 bore double barrel shotgun with rabbit ear hammers. I think it is a English made gun. it says; I HOLLIS+SONS BIRMINHAM on top of barrel. The barrels are 30 inches long. Under the barrels it says "steel" and it does not look like Damascus steel to me. It looks to be in good shape but there may be a small crack in the stock at the bottom of the trigger guard-not sure [see picture] I as wondering about hunting with the gun and hope for some advise from somebody who knows more about these guns than I do.View attachment E-1.jpgView attachment E-2.jpgView attachment E-3.jpgView attachment E-5.jpgView attachment E-6.jpgView attachment E-7.jpgView attachment E-8.jpg
 
Good morning, Dale~


I cannot help you with any technical advice - but I can enjoy a beautiful classic. Got more photos? I'd love to see the whole thing - especially the fore end.


All the best,


SJS

 
Dale, Looks like you got a nice old gun. A plus is that it has been nitro proofed. That more or less means it is safe for modern shells. I would suggest low pressure ones! Also, many English 12 bores have 2 1/2 chambers. You need to check on that. If it does, then it is best to use just 2 1/2 shells, which are available. Somewhat risky to have it chambered out to 2 3/4 but that is sometimes done. If it can be determined that it was made as a 2 3/4 it should show it was proofed for 1 1/4 oz. But that information isn't always included. Best bet is to take it to a gunsmith that knows old English doubles, even if you need to mail it off.
My guess is that you will have some good days shooting it. Best, Worth
 
greg setter said:
Worth, I think you should take him on a wood pigeon hunt with that gun.
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Good one.

Gray's Bird Hunting Edition arrived in the mail yesterday.

Mr. Mathewson's SCOTLANDS Best, got my attention first. The photo of Dave Hagerbaumer's hand-carved pigeon decoys, and the Parker DHE 16 ga. was icing on the cake.

I doubt I'll ever get there, but I'm very fond of pigeon hunting, and Guinness on tap. [smile]


As for the subject of the post, that is a fine looking "Shootgun".


VP
 
Dale, Did some research on your gun. Somewhat odd, as in the book British Gunmakers, Birmingham, Scotland & the Regions there wasn't a total history of the firm. Nor could I find out much from other books. It did list an amazing number of Hollis from Birmingham: Isaac, Ebenezer, Francis, Joseph, Richard, William, all who were in the gun trade.
But very likely your gun was from Isaac Hollis & Sons Est. 1814. From 1870 until 1911 they had a London office. In 1911 the firm merged with Bentley and Playfair to become Hollis, Bentley and Playfair. If I read correctly they made guns until 1953. Best Worth
 
Dale, Did some more checking. Looked at Guns International to see if they had any Hollis guns for sale. They had seven listed.
And three of them had high prices! $8475, $6500, and $5850. Also noticed in viewing the photographs Hollis made some very high grades. So I am very puzzled why almost nothing is to be found about the company in the various books? Best, Worth
 
I really appreciate all that information Worth, it is very interesting. I love old double barrels too. The gentleman I got the shotgun from said He thought it was made about 1895. He did not know the chamber length however. Do you happen to know when 2 3/4 inch shotshells first made there appearance and guns were chambered for them? I have a few more pictures of the shotgun to post, including the forearm for Steve.
 
Dale, I am not exactly certain when 2 3/4 shells were first offered. But they were made to hold 1 1/4 oz rather than the 1 oz of the 2 1/2 inch shells. But I am somewhat certain that they were offered in England by the 1890s? Perhaps before? The English were ahead of us in powerful shells, offering 3 inch 12 bore loads early on,( I have a Boswell made in 1905 chambered for 3 inch) and 2 7/8 inch 10 bore loads many years before that load was available in the U.S. You didn't mention if you looked to see if the gun was stamped for 1 1/4 oz. If so, then it is a 2 3/4 gun. But it would be wise to have someone look at it. Odds are great that you have a totally shoot able gun with low pressure loads. And a nice one! Best, Worth
 
Hollis guns were generally well made - hammers hung on with traditionalist into the early 1900s

that one was proofed for Nitro powder with a 1 1/8 load - but I still keep the pressure and recoil down for any of my old hammer guns - the "CHOKE" is a mark that began in 1904 I believe

most British shotguns - even current ones are 2 1/2

the trick now is to know that is is still in proof - that it has not been altered since tested- are the bores clean - no pitting - that can be good or not- its a sign of excellent care - or the barrels having been honed to clean them up. the only way to know is to measure the bore diameter and wall thickness

RST makes shells for it 2 1/2 lead and non tox - I use them for almost all my doubles http://www.rstshells.com/

there were longer chambers and shells made back then (I recently sold one off mine- Wm Moore and Grey made in the late 1870's that had 2 3/4 chambers )
mostly they held longer wad stacks not more powder and shot - in those days the extra wads improved the patterns
 
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The bores look pretty good. There is some light pitting in the right barrel and none I can see in the left. The bottom part of the shell chambers look like they may of been worked on before. I can see where they were maybe reamed or something. The metal down there is quite shinny. I tried to photo it but got too much reflection to see it clear.
 
Nice gun - congratulations
BPI lists some very good Non-toxic loads using their ITX shot. I normally load 1.25 oz loads in #4 and keep the pressure around 6000 psi. If it is a 2.5 inch chamber the tube can be reamed out relatively easily.
If you do reload check out Ballistic Products on line (BPI)
Have Fun
 
Dave, the Hollis looks in good condition for it's age. Looks like a field grade shooter as it has no embellishments except for the brass insert on the stock. All the proof marks are good. As for the chamber length, Galazon make a chamber, choke tool on his site. I use mine all the time.
A few of the locals are duck hunting with black powder SxS's for the fun of it. SxS's aren't big sellers around here any longer. Have fun with you find...
 
Morning Dale, Fine English fowling piece. Please do not fire that until you have it checked out by a double gun smith. It has to be a smith that is knowable with fine sxs gun , not some wanker that works on just any thing. That wood is 100 years old , it will not hold up to high pressure. It looks like it was proofed for 11/8 oz. loads. If it is good to go RST shot shells are the way to go. Good luck. FRITZ MECK.
 
Fritz Meck said:
That wood is 100 years old , it will not hold up to high pressure. .
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some wood will, some won't - it depends on the condition same as the metal (oil soaking is maybe the worst danger for wood)

just being picky - IMHO ---pressure is for the barrels/lock up - recoil affects the wood - both are important

as I said before there is no way to know if it has been altered since being proofed without measuring it

and as you say ---- not all - in fact most likely few "gunsmiths" these days - are qualified to work on doubles, if you don't have the knowledge and tools to do it yourself - find the right pro

many of these old guns can still be hunted with it you do it responsibly -



View attachment Peiper woodcock.jpg
 
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