All wetlands should have this sign at entrance.

Victor Duskin

Victor Duskin

Active member
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I know lots of non-hunters who purchase duck stamps. Anyone who has a duck stamp gets free access to any refuge that charges an entrance fee, so many birdwatchers, hikers, anglers and beach goers buy a stamp because it's cheaper than paying a fee every visit.

Some of those folks, who've kicked in their share, would be offended by such a sign, and rightly so.

Why not a sign that says something like, "If you enjoy these protected lands for any reason, please support them by purchasing a duck stamp?"
 
There are approximately 47 million bird watchers in the US.

There are less than 1 million active waterfowl hunters.

I don't know how many stamp collectors there are.

The feds sell about 1.7 million duck stamps each year and they estimate that about 25% of them are not for hunting licenses. DU, Delta, and others consistently encourage waterfowlers to buy extra stamps because it's the best investment going for waterfowl habitat. Personally I've been buying at least 3/year recently and a lot of my hunting friends do the same.

I don't consider myself a true birder, but I have feeders, binoculars, take pictures of birds. I'm also not a stamp collector, with the exception of duck stamps.

But anyway, less than half a million Fed Duck Stamps are being purchased for reasons other than legal pursuit of waterfowl. I don't think the tree huggers are pulling their weight here.

Let's look at it numerically:

47,000,000 birdwatchers
___995,000 duck hunters
_1,700,000 duck stamps
___705,000 the most charitable number of non-hunters that could possibly buy duck stamps, if no hunters bought extras.
_______1.5% If all 705,000 "extra stamps" sold were to bird watchers, the percentage of total birdwatchers buying Federal duck stamps.
 
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Nick:

Folks like you who purchase more than one--and the birdwatchers who buy a stamp even though they don't need one--both deserve thanks for voluntary conservation spending.

I think we'll expand the pie faster by encouraging and thanking the folks who do buy a duck stamp than by yelling at the ones who don't.
 
I think the sign is backlash from hunters frustrated by birders who turn their noses up at hunting and claim a higher need.
 
Agreed. I don't think backlash is an effective way to increase duck stamp sales.

And in the big picture, having hunters and birders both supporting habitat protection is important.
 
exactly Jeff.
A devisive sign can do more to damage the already tenuous relationships between parties who share the same want but for different reasons.
We all want better wetlands and more birds. Encouraging is a better strategy than snubbing
just my .02
 
I have to say this thread really highlights why I come to this site to read and participate. I can certainly understand why Victor posted the picture of the sign. It resonates with me and really puts into words the frustration I as a hunter sometimes feel as other groups try and limit my use of wetlands for there own gain. For example a person here in Michigan recently attempted to have the courts close a large area to all hunting and snowmobiling to make it a "quite area" so he and others could enjoy it without the distraction of gunshots in the distance. I am sure most of us have a similar example.

With that said I am glad to see the thread take the turn that it did and such an interesting and intelligent conversation take place. Look at the refuge for a good example of the worse of the hunting world but you can look here for a positive example of what and who we are.

Thanks Guys!
 
Years ago, I got into it with a "Bird Watcher", at the Pymatuning waterfowl refuge. When he unloaded about hunters..........and all the damage they do. Well, needless to say he got a crash course in WHO foots the bill, and bought the land he was on, etc.

Long story short, as my wife pulled me away from the discussion, I told him "Your A Freeloader, pay up or shut up!"

That's a Great sign, and very well done. Thank you.
 
I follow the Cornell Lab of Ornithology's Facebook page and to their credit they recently strongly encouraged the purchase of duck stamps when the new one was released this summer. Not surprisingly, there was a fair amount of backlash from those who consider the stamp to be funding for the murder of innocent birds. Even more to CLO's credit, they came back with THIS follow-up.

Apparently there is a movement afoot proposing to create a separate federal conservation stamp option for non-hunters. Although their website includes some inaccuracies and revisionist history, I say "knock yourselves out." The more funding, the merrier and it will serve to reveal the true disparity between the amount contributed by hunters versus non-hunters.
 
I have to say this thread really highlights why I come to this site to read and participate. I can certainly understand why Victor posted the picture of the sign. It resonates with me and really puts into words the frustration I as a hunter sometimes feel as other groups try and limit my use of wetlands for there own gain. For example a person here in Michigan recently attempted to have the courts close a large area to all hunting and snowmobiling to make it a "quite area" so he and others could enjoy it without the distraction of gunshots in the distance. I am sure most of us have a similar example.

With that said I am glad to see the thread take the turn that it did and such an interesting and intelligent conversation take place. Look at the refuge for a good example of the worse of the hunting world but you can look here for a positive example of what and who we are.

Thanks Guys!
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Brandon,

I could not agree more. This is by far one of the best sites I visit. I don't care for the childish mentality on most other bang, bang, shoot em up sites. I think using real names is the key. The respect that everyone here shows towards each other makes me proud to be a member.
 
I think it would be better just to tell them to thank hunters for the habitat they enjoy and leave it at that. Once they pay they will have even more say in how that land is used. Not going to be good in my opinion.
No separate stamp for sure. The stamps now are habitat stamps not hunting stamps.

Tim
 

It's interesting to see both hunters and non-hunters on forums arguing that they want their own program.

I don't like the idea of a separate stamp, though I wouldn't oppose it. I actually don't care if folks who don't hunt get more of a say in managing our refuge lands, so long as they are helping foot the bill. After all, the wildlife belongs to everyone, not just folks like me who hunt.

But having hunter and non hunters both support the same habitat program, rather than two separate funds, will force communication about how best to spend the money between hunters and non-hunters who share a common interest in our natural heritage.

That's a good thing.
 
I buy 2 stamps each year on the off chance my daughter will visit during the season or the usual, Sept hunt where one of the crew has forgotten to purchase this year's stamp. I am not in favor of a separate stamp or adversarial
signage. When I speak to non hunters I point out the common goals we share. The fact the hunter's pay the lion's share and always have is the inconvenient truth for most non hunter types.
 
GREAT SIGN. Too bad if it "offends" someone! Maybe thos offended should know WHO paid for the refuges, etc.
 
When I used to get WILDBIRD magazine, they always encouraged readers to buy state, and federal duck stamps. They also never had a ANTI agenda. I was very surprised, and must give credit where credit is due. It's a very good magazine.

When I get asked to join the Audubon Society, I say. Sure, if you will join DU? That usually ends it right there........

It all boils down to, if you enjoy it so much, please help support it as best you can. Especially now.
 
Anyone who thinks bird watchers are going to support wildlife habitat and then allow duck hunters to hunt on that land is living in la la land. Here they are constantly trying to kick hunters off land that is purchased with duck hunter money and supported by duck hunter volunteers.

Just one guys opinion.

Mark W
 
I have enjoyed all the comments and opinions expressed. And as always they are expressed with respect...

Maybe the sign would be a good thing... maybe not... But one thing is for sure... there should be more public advertisements, shout-outs, outcry's, etc... that acknowledge the hunter as the main source of support funding conversation efforts. So much so that its common knowledge to the average joe as to where the funding comes from, who's out front leading and who supports these efforts not only out of their pocket, but thru projects, fundraiser, etc and it's done passionately in order to pass it on to the next generation... Maybe its like that already and I'm just not seeing or hearing it as I have not been as focused on such things as I use to be... but with all that said.. I still like the sign... I just wonder where its actually stuck in the ground at... as I found it surfing the net and thought I'd post it here to get ya'lls thoughts....which i have enjoyed! thanks Vic
 
Anyone who thinks bird watchers are going to support wildlife habitat and then allow duck hunters to hunt on that land is living in la la land. Here they are constantly trying to kick hunters off land that is purchased with duck hunter money and supported by duck hunter volunteers.

Just one guys opinion.

Mark W


Mark, I duck hunt with a lot of bird watchers. Often on land they've helped protect. My "across the street" early season duck hole was purchased by my local land trust, who give me (and other hunters) permission to store a canoe in the woods and cut brush for a temporary blind. They encourage hunting on their properties any place it's safe. One of my best late season spots on the coast was purchased by the Nature Conservancy to prevent development. The most vocal advocate for wetlands protection in my state legislature has been the Maine Audubon Society. I have hunting partners who volunteer and donate to all three of those groups.

I'm sure there are NIMBY's posing as bird watchers who just want to shut down hunting, but in my experience many serious birders are avid duck hunters, and many of the rest are not opposed to hunting. I don't agree with them about every issue, but when we do agree, they're great to work with.

My experience with people trying to close down hunting is that the leader of the charge is usually a waterfront landowner with a complaint about noise, trespassing, or safety--real or perceived. They may wave the "wildlife protection" flag, but that doesn't mean it's their motivation.

They also tend not to get very far.
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