Another HELP ME

Dani

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Perhaps this should go into my what's on the workbench thread since it is currently spread out ALL OVER my workbench but I do have some questions.

I was given sometime back a Craftsman 10" Radial Arm Saw. Motor works just fine and for the most part there is just surface rust on the exposed steel parts. Easy enough to deal with. However, the handle to crank the arm up and down to adjust the height of the cut wouldn't rotate. Initially based on what I saw, I thought perhaps it was the shaft of the arm itself that goes into the cast iron sleeve/base was somehow seized to the sleeve. So I Kroiled the bejeezus out of it over the course of a few weeks and it never broke free. So I got to thinking hmmmmmm maybe it's the gears that interact with each other. Last night after finishing putting together my buffing wheel I decided that I would tackle the radial arm saw again. I don't know why I took so long to do it. Jeeesh it is way easier to take apart than many of the guns that I work on every day.

Anyway, I got the gears pulled out and I still couldn't get the arm to release out of the cast iron sleeve (and yeah I know I'm not using the right terms but they escape me right now). So it likely is an issue with the arm shaft and sleeve interface. However the gears could use a little love as well. I will get the gears all cleaned up of any of the crustiness and the little bit of rust that is present but how do I go about removing the arm from the shaft to clean up that interface? I thought about brute force using a come-a-long and anchoring the cast iron sleeve to something and then slowly seeing if I could ratchet it out of the sleeve, but there has to be a better way? I have removed all of the parts associated with the sleeve and shaft I believe.

Though there is a good bit of surface rust on the exposed un painted metal, the innards and the bolts and screws were ALL super easy to remove and for the most part very clean. The rust you see on the gears here is the worst of the internal rust that I have seen.

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As you can see in the picture down below, the threaded area is quite clean of rust so there shouldn't have been issues going up and down with that.

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And then the removed arm from the table base

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I would have thought that if it were a gear interfacing issue that removing the gears would allow the arm to go up and down. I can't get it to budge up or down though so I go back to my initial thought of shaft/sleeve interface issues.

Sooooooooooooo how would y'all do it to get the arm out of the sleeve? Have I missed something as far as taking it all apart?

Once it is ready to be all back together again and cleaned up, before installing.....what kind of grease should I put in/around the gears? It obviously has some and it's old and ooky so a fresh round ought to be good for it. Is wheel bearing grease okay for it or does it need something else?

Thanks a lot again to the brain trust here!!!

Dani
 
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Dani, I am sure others will help with your seized column, but I would caution you that the radial arm saw is the most dangerous home shop power tool. This comes from a guy who tangled with the table saw, had 4 surgeries, lost 3 months of work, and has partial use of my left hand. I sold my radial arm saw many years ago as I had too many close calls. There is very little that a radial arm saw can do better than a table saw and a miter saw. Any many things will be a struggle with it. They are sloppy, dangerous tools. Please be careful.
 
Dani,

Extracting the column from the cast housing, should be a straight forward operation with the right tools.

Please take a good photo of the parts page exploded drawing so I can confirm my assumptions and don't lead you down the wrong road.

Also , the last photo of the seized column and housing, please take a picture from the back view of what you now show. There should be a guide key along the column which engages the housing, if I am correct.
 
Thanks Dave D. I don't wanna lose fingers/limbs/life so I will definitely be careful. I would love a nice table saw and/or a nice compound sliding miter saw. But I have just a regular ol' miter saw and this radial arm saw and a bandsaw. I could probably sell the miter saw and radial arm saw to have some funds to put towards a nice compound sliding miter saw but I imagine I'd get a better price on the radial arm saw if I got it fully functional again. I will definitely be very careful and appreciate the warning.

Dave M: There is a guide key on the back of the column and I removed it. You can see it above the wrench in the picture of the full threaded gear. I can get the picture this evening of the column though. Here are the parts diagrams:

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i-Jj9TV7z-M.jpg

 
Dani,

OK, if you have the guide key removed, you should be safe to proceed. Two options (A) take it to a machine shop where they can put it in a hydraulic press. Might be cost prohibitive. (B) do it yourself with a split bearing plate puller (similar process as what you used to remove the pulley on your motor) just bigger and more setup.


View attachment otc1130.jpg View attachment Betex48.jpg


You will need the appropriate lengths of threaded rod to span the distance such that the puller can be set up for your application. You will also need some sort of solid plug (see drawing) because the tube you will be pushing against is hollow. A piece of hard wood cut out on your bandsaw with a washer on top for the push screw to ride against should work.

I would suggest having the jaws below the end of the housing as the preferred location, otherwise against the flange probably ok but you do risk breaking and ear on the flange.


View attachment column.jpg



View attachment push.jpg
 
Dani,

Have you tried applying heat to the column? If you can remove the radial arm you can possibly place it in an oven to heat it. The heating and contraction of the cast iron may loosen the rust.

Rick
 
Whenever I had to heat to break lose rust frozen parts it had to be cherry red. That would kill the temper.

JD
 
I have had luck just heating. Given that Dani is in Florida. Sit the casting in the sun and keep applying Kroil to the shaft. There is a large bearing area to free. Usually it is a ring of muck that needs to be softened. Don't beat on the end of the shaft with a hammer or else it will mushroom and you will not be able to get the shaft out of the housing.
 
The one piece is cast iron correct? I would be afraid to break anything thats already broken. They appear to be dissimilar metals i would say work your way up with heat or try an arbor press or all of the above. When they heat and cool it will be at different rates its possible that warming it might expand the cast enough.
 
Kroil is good stuff. I used it to free up frozen Flathead Ford engines and it worked. I would try warming it and soaking it in Kroil before putting oxy-acetylene to it. I know the hot wrench will work but it will damage the temper in the steel.

Joe
 
Thanks Dave for the diagram on how you'd create/use the tool (glad you gave me the picture cuz I'm not sure I would've understood just the words)...I'll do some thinking and looking thru the garage to see what I have that I could make something like that. A threaded rod at Lowes isn't all that expensive.

I'll need to wait for the weekend to do the set it out in the sun idea. Good idea though, it's certainly plenty hot enough here. I'll turn it upside down and kroil from the bottom now that it is off of the stand and I'll just add some more kroil and let it do it's thing. Hopefully between the heat, kroil and properly applied force it'll break free easily

thanks again y'all!!
 
Dani said:
Thanks Dave for the diagram on how you'd create/use the tool (glad you gave me the picture cuz I'm not sure I would've understood just the words)...I'll do some thinking and looking thru the garage to see what I have that I could make something like that. A threaded rod at Lowes isn't all that expensive.

I'll need to wait for the weekend to do the set it out in the sun idea. Good idea though, it's certainly plenty hot enough here. I'll turn it upside down and kroil from the bottom now that it is off of the stand and I'll just add some more kroil and let it do it's thing. Hopefully between the heat, kroil and properly applied force it'll break free easily

thanks again y'all!!

Dani,

This would be a tool which can be rented. Show them the photos of both the tool and your project. NOTE; One cannot just make this tool, everything included the threaded rod is hardened and or made out of high tensile steel. Kroil is your friend. If you end up renting the puller, Once you have tightened the forcing screw up and have a fair amount of pressure on it, rap the end of the forcing screw hard with a large hammer. The impact along with the applied force is what breaks it loose.

Jump ahead to about the 5 minute mark, or just watch the entire 10 minute video. [laugh] Your application is slightly different than what is demonstrated, but the principles of operation remain the same.
video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjDEufhoBGY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjDEufhoBGY
 
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Dani

Did you remove parts 47-49? These are meant to let you adjust any slack out of the column. If someone overtightened the setscrew the column would be locked in place.

Eric
 
Eric Patterson said:
Dani

Did you remove parts 47-49? These are meant to let you adjust any slack out of the column. If someone overtightened the setscrew the column would be locked in place.

Eric

Eric,
That's what I was looking for and I believe she said these have been removed and are visible in one of her original photos.
 
Huntindave McCann said:
Eric Patterson said:
Dani

Did you remove parts 47-49? These are meant to let you adjust any slack out of the column. If someone overtightened the setscrew the column would be locked in place.

Eric

Eric,
That's what I was looking for and I believe she said these have been removed and are visible in one of her original photos.

I'm unable to see the backside of the column in the pictures and from the parts diagram that looks to be where it is.

Eric
 
Dani

Also, now that you've got a buffer buy a wire wheel for it and use it to clean up the rust on your RAS parts. I have a similar set-up and it is one of the most used tools in my shop. Be sure to wear eye protection as the wires will fly loose over time and they will pierce flesh.

Eric
 
Eric Patterson said:
Huntindave McCann said:
Eric Patterson said:
Dani

Did you remove parts 47-49? These are meant to let you adjust any slack out of the column. If someone overtightened the setscrew the column would be locked in place.

Eric

Eric,
That's what I was looking for and I believe she said these have been removed and are visible in one of her original photos.

I'm unable to see the backside of the column in the pictures and from the parts diagram that looks to be where it is.

Eric

Eric,
The pieces are laying on the workbench just above the 9/16 open end wrench in the third photo. At least that is what Dani told me, when I asked about the guide key.

"Dave M: There is a guide key on the back of the column and I removed it. You can see it above the wrench in the picture of the full threaded gear. I can get the picture this evening of the column though. Here are the parts diagrams: "
 
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Huntindave McCann said:
Eric Patterson said:
Huntindave McCann said:
Eric Patterson said:
Dani

Did you remove parts 47-49? These are meant to let you adjust any slack out of the column. If someone overtightened the setscrew the column would be locked in place.

Eric

Eric,
That's what I was looking for and I believe she said these have been removed and are visible in one of her original photos.

I'm unable to see the backside of the column in the pictures and from the parts diagram that looks to be where it is.

Eric

Eric,
The pieces are laying on the workbench just above the 9/16 open end wrench in the third photo. At least that is what Dani told me, when I asked about the guide key.

"Dave M: There is a guide key on the back of the column and I removed it. You can see it above the wrench in the picture of the full threaded gear. I can get the picture this evening of the column though. Here are the parts diagrams: "

Okay, looks like those parts have been removed. Did I ever tell you about the time I was removing a drill press column from the base? I removed the set screw and the column wouldn't budge. Someone STACKED one set screw on top of another! Sometimes a press is in fact needed, sometimes there is something else left holding things together.

Eric
 
Eric Patterson said:
Okay, looks like those parts have been removed. Did I ever tell you about the time I was removing a drill press column from the base? I removed the set screw and the column wouldn't budge. Someone STACKED one set screw on top of another! Sometimes a press is in fact needed, sometimes there is something else left holding things together.

Eric

Hah,

Similar happened to me on my new lathe. I was hearing a slight ticking noise. Tightened the set screw on the motor drive pulley. The noise went away for a while and then came back again. Rechecked the set screw, yep another one below the first set screw. Tightened the lower set screw against the shaft, tightened the locking set screw down against the lower one, bingo problem resolved.

Quite common, if you know it is there. [;)]
 
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