Back Yard Boat Builder

Chief, thanks for the input and welcome to the site. Glad to have you aboard.

All the talk of commercial vs. recreational reminds me a boat i was given many years ago down in Dundalk, MD. It was definitely a commercial boat and I didn't know there was a difference until now. Good thing I didn't keep it!
 
Darren, thanks for your input but when it comes to safety being vague is the last thing we need. I think it's safe to say the majority of the members here are responsible and safety minded and a good portion of us have built or plan on building a boat. I can't see how the one manufacturer that passed the test would take exception to their company being mentioned in a positive way. Perhaps you could tell us the hull type/boat style? It seems a little far fetched that with the number of manufacturers out there that only one duck hunting type boat could pass these tests but I guess we'll have to take your word for it.
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He said that only one duck boat Manufacturer passed the first time. I think he is saying that the others that did not pass the first time around had to make changes to make there duck boats pass the coast gaurd testing and after the changes were made then be retested. That only one passed the first time and didn't need to make changes to meet the Coast Gaurds standards and requirements for Recreational boats.
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Exactly and that is within the past couple years since he has been employed there( although I am sure many boats have been tested). Our UFO layout boat passed the first time through without any problems, thanks to the info provided by the USCG in the boat builders manual we recieved as a new manufacturer and from a couple phone conversations with them at that time. Its really pretty simple. read and follow direction. Add a little math and its not that difficult. We chose to have them test our first layout due to wanting to be sure we knew what we were doing and were following the formula's correctly. With the first time pass proving we were indeed right and knew how to set the boat up with floattion and how much was needed we have chosen to self test the Erie and Legacy ourselves. Now when you start adding motors its a little more tricky but yet still simple enough if you follow directions and can do some math.

To many people are afraid and do not understand the concept of the USCG and testing boats. Fellas any boat will pass if its wood or has floatation in it. Its a matter of what rating your want it to pass for. These guys are a manufacturers best friend. They want to help and see to it your boat succeeds. with out manufacturers the USCG would be in big trouble financially as they wouldnt have anything to do and I would bet federal funding would dissappear.

Darren again glad to see you getting involved and believe it will only be a positive for the USCG and Boat builders. There are boats all over the country that would never pass and people are buying them without any knowledge of there true safety flaws. See it every year at shows and boat ramps.
 
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Well if we're talking the last two years or so of testing. I had the Duck Boss 17 tested in August or September of 2010 if I remember correctly. It passed all tests the first time around. At the time they told me that most boats don't pass the first time. They do let you correct a problem on site or take it to a local shop to have the changes made then test again if need be. I made several calls to the test center while designing the flotation compartments which made the difference between passing and not the first time. The fellow that runs the test center really knows his stuff.

Tom.
 

Darren thanks for your post and welcome, now that we know who you are. I have always found information on accidents interesting and informitive. Two seasons ago there was a local fatality involving one of my boats. I am proud to have my boats tested and thankful for the great job that Steve, Chuck and Al do over there. I've held a MIC since 2005 and both models that I have had eested to this point passed first try. I have two more models done and hpoe to get them over to Soloman befor the first of the year. Again welcome and I'm looking foward to hearing more from you.
 
Let me clarify something I first posted. There are many builders that passed the boat testing in Solomons Island through the years. I've only been in this current position for two years and have not looked back at testing through the years to see who has or has not passed or how many and my comment was based upon the last two years that I have observed. I will not give out results of testing or company names, good or bad. Testing at Solomons is not required and if you build to the requirements in the Boat Builders handbook then your boats should be built safely.
 
I didnt take you comment out of context Darren. Just putting in my two cents. I do that from time to time. heh
 
Darren,

Interesting thread. Welcome aboard.
Although I am not a manufacturer I am always interested in building a better boat.
I look forward to your input.
 
Darren, Welcome and thanks for the info. I will share some of the accident reports with my Firearms Safety classes, facts beat fiction. Also as a boat builder I always appreciate info on how to do it the right safe way.
 
Welcome Darren! I know I'm glad I made the right choice when I went with an approved manufacturer for my boat. I'm also glad I added flotation to the boat I built! I was wondering if this day would ever come... not exactly big brother watching over us, but more of a second cousin offering good advice, I should hope!

Wonder if we'll ever hear, or see pictures from certain people ever again? I wonder if they're going through deleting old posts? That's the pessimist in me...

Sincerely

AA-
 
Kevin, kit boat manufacturers are required to have a MIC and supply all the necessary associated parts and meet all safety requirements like any other manufacturer. If built for the purpose of sale then its supposed to meet all requirements. If you are truly a backyard boat builder then its built for your own use and is not for sale. See this Boating Safety Circular for more info on kits. http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/pdf/recalls/BSC85_1.pdf#kit

As far as a scull boat it should meet all requirements of either a rowboat or a outboard boat if its built for an outboard meaning it should have flotation. A lot of duck boat types are rowed or paddled and I get the question a lot about why a boat isn't considered a canoe exempted from most of the regs. For a vessel or watercraft to be considered a canoe it has to meet the definition accepted by the USCG. If it does not meet the definition then its either a rowboat or a outboard boat and must meet all the requirements for that boat type. I'm trying to figure out how to post the regulatory reference chart showing whats required for each boat type. In the mean time, here's the canoe definitions. Layout boats for example do not meet the definition so they should have flotation.
USCG Accepted Defintions​
Canoe – A watercraft designed to be manually propelled, with or without provision for auxiliary power, with neither end having a transverse dimension greater than 45% of its maximum beam, and conforms to the following table:
Canoe Length Maximum Beam​
14 ft (4.25m) or less 1/3 Canoe Length​
Over 14 ft to 16 ft (4.9m) 1/4 Canoe Length​
Over 16 ft (over 4.9m) 1/5 Canoe Length​
Reference: American Boat & Yacht Council (ABYC) Standards and Technical Information Reports for Small Craft, Standard H-29 ‘CANOES AND KAYAKS’
Definition of Vessel - 1 USC 3, Vessel includes every description of watercraft, other than a seaplane on the water, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on the water.

 
ok - so are these backyard builders or are they a manufactured boat sold without numbers- and floatation- as here on the N Shore there a quite a few around- and if its the latter can they be sold? and if so can a bill of sale stating that it does not have floatation make it a legal sale? and how do you go about getting state numbers if there are no hull numbers? i see one of these boats for sale now in mass- and it states it has no floatation? i guess it makes me confused??? Kevin
 
Kevin, kit boat manufacturers are required to have a MIC and supply all the necessary associated parts and meet all safety requirements like any other manufacturer. If built for the purpose of sale then its supposed to meet all requirements. If you are truly a backyard boat builder then its built for your own use and is not for sale. See this Boating Safety Circular for more info on kits. http://www.uscgboating.org/...alls/BSC85_1.pdf#kit

As far as a scull boat it should meet all requirements of either a rowboat or a outboard boat if its built for an outboard meaning it should have flotation. A lot of duck boat types are rowed or paddled and I get the question a lot about why a boat isn't considered a canoe exempted from most of the regs. For a vessel or watercraft to be considered a canoe it has to meet the definition accepted by the USCG. If it does not meet the definition then its either a rowboat or a outboard boat and must meet all the requirements for that boat type. I'm trying to figure out how to post the regulatory reference chart showing whats required for each boat type. In the mean time, here's the canoe definitions. Layout boats for example do not meet the definition so they should have flotation.
USCG Accepted Defintions​
Canoe – A watercraft designed to be manually propelled, with or without provision for auxiliary power, with neither end having a transverse dimension greater than 45% of its maximum beam, and conforms to the following table:
Canoe Length Maximum Beam​
14 ft (4.25m) or less 1/3 Canoe Length​
Over 14 ft to 16 ft (4.9m) 1/4 Canoe Length​
Over 16 ft (over 4.9m) 1/5 Canoe Length​
Reference: American Boat & Yacht Council (ABYC) Standards and Technical Information Reports for Small Craft, Standard H-29 ‘CANOES AND KAYAKS’
Definition of Vessel - 1 USC 3, Vessel includes every description of watercraft, other than a seaplane on the water, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on the water.
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Correct because the width of the layout is to wide to fit the definition of a canoe. But Scull boats should and could. They are meant to be sculled with an oar but can have a transom or motor mount as well. They must be moved by the oar to be legal however motors are used to get to and from the hunting area just like the larger sneak boats which also would be considered a canoe because there beam is not more than the definition states.

Does this scull boat meet the definition of a canoe based on what is shown above?

http://www.tdbco.com/tdb_16_scull_boat.htm

Boat Specifications

Length 16 ft
Beam 3’9”
Max HP 4 hp
Weight 165 lbs.
Fully Loaded Draft 3”
Depth Inside Boat 15”
Cockpit 31”x51”
Load Capacity 650 lbs.

http://www.tdbco.com/tdb_16_scull_boat.htm
 
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Kevin, I don't know if there built by a backyard builder or a manufacturer. Sounds like its a manufacturer that isn't registered with us. Putting a sticker on it saying it doesn't have flotation and the boat is used recreationally doesn't absolve the builder from liability. Its really a dumb thing to do. the builder is admitting they aren't complying with the regs. Sometimes the first purchaser of a boat like that is ok with taking the risk but then the boat is bought and sold and the second or third purchaser doens't know and assumes the boat has flotation. We only inspect the boat builders that have a manufacturer identification code so if people are building and selling boats without flotation and not registered with us they are taking a risk. Some states inspect boats before issuing a state issued HIN, most don't. If it has a HIN it should meet the rec requirements for its boat type but if it doesn't no one's really checking unless theres an accident or your unlucky enough to be stopped by a marine patrol officer or game warden. Boats like these are bought and sold and no ones the wiser until something bad happens and its a risk a lot of people are willing to take.
 
Ok- so its a don't ask - don't tell until there is a problem- so getting a recipt with the lack of floatiaion does not remove the "builder" of his liabilty? i saw one of these boats this week and it had not Coast Guard sticker- no Hull Numbers- no floatation- it was a hull put together with rivets and 5200 - what happens is someone gets hurt? in this or one of the other boats made like this??? is there any legal repecutions? as they have been sold in kit form here on this form- I am a Lawyer and I can see this as a serious lawsuit in the making!!! Kevin-
 
Tony, I don't want to try and do that on a forum. I'll let my factory inspector check it out in person, measure it and go over it with you at your next inspection.
 
Tony, I don't want to try and do that on a forum. I'll let my factory inspector check it out in person, measure it and go over it with you at your next inspection.
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Thats perfect he will be here Monday! perfect timing Im gonna keep him busy. LOL
 
Ok- so its a don't ask - don't tell until there is a problem- so getting a recipt with the lack of floatiaion does not remove the "builder" of his liabilty? i saw one of these boats this week and it had not Coast Guard sticker- no Hull Numbers- no floatation- it was a hull put together with rivets and 5200 - what happens is someone gets hurt? in this or one of the other boats made like this??? is there any legal repecutions? as they have been sold in kit form here on this form- I am a Lawyer and I can see this as a serious lawsuit in the making!!! Kevin-
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This is exactly the way I understand it. It can be very serious and quite frankly if they were caught or somehow a boat was tested by the USCG and fails then recalls would or could be issued. This is highly unlikely as I dont believe the USCG has time to run around and check every boat being built.

Now if someone were to get injured in such a craft that spells disaster for the builder im sure. And a very good reason why they should be tested for safety reasons. Remember testing is free and the USCG team is there to help. If a manufacturer listens and follows directions they will benefit greatly from the program that they offer.

Accidents happen and lets say a guy gets killed in a boat that meets CG standards. has the label and all requirements. Its my understanding that the boat in question would be sent for testing if possible to assure it meets or exceeds standards and to see if they can find out what happened. Lets say this happens and the boat passes and yet a family member of the person who died in the accident blames the builder and files a lawsuit against them. THe builder would have the evidence that the boat was indeed tested and meets the requirements of the uscg and would be a great defense in court for the manufacture.

Lets say the accident was caused because the boat was rated for 4 people and a 25hp motor and during the fatal accident it had 5 people and a 50hp motor on it. It would be safe to assume the manufacturers liablity would be relieved as the rating was not followed.

This is why our boats are tested and meet or exceed the standards set by the USCG. For this very reason. we want them in our corner in case so to speak if its needed somewhere down the road.
 
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Tony, it's like Tom Allen told me on my first vist. He said that certifician was worth 3 lawyers. Boats involved in accidents or fatalities are not sent to Soloman out of hand but I've transported two boats involved in accidents that went to Soloman at the owners request. Also, there are often juristiction conciderations in some states. In Virginia for example by agreement between agencies the VA Marine police have juristiction in recreational boat cases and the USCG handles the commercial cases.
 
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