Banks layout vs UFO layout

I don't wear waders because the boat leaks, and I don't compromise on safety. Early in the year it does rain. Also on rough days the splash apron doesn't stop everything. There is an area that I hunt that is only 4 feet deep. If the wind blows a sustained 30mph it will generate a bit more than 1 ft chop, but the spray is brutal. It's safe to hunt I'm sure you would agree? I don't think any layout is bone dry in conditions like that.




As far as sinking with NEOPRENE waders. Its not possible. Two summers ago I got into my pool with my waders on. I filled the waders to the top with the garden hose. I absolutely could not go under the water. They are no substitute for a life jacket, but neoprene waders float. Coupled with a good life jacket they add a level of safety in my opinion. They are a good insulator and help keep you warm on those very cold days.
 
I don't wear waders because the boat leaks, and I don't compromise on safety. Early in the year it does rain. Also on rough days the splash apron doesn't stop everything. There is an area that I hunt that is only 4 feet deep. If the wind blows a sustained 30mph it will generate a bit more than 1 ft chop, but the spray is brutal. It's safe to hunt I'm sure you would agree? I don't think any layout is bone dry in conditions like that.




As far as sinking with NEOPRENE waders. Its not possible. Two summers ago I got into my pool with my waders on. I filled the waders to the top with the garden hose. I absolutely could not go under the water. They are no substitute for a life jacket, but neoprene waders float. Coupled with a good life jacket they add a level of safety in my opinion. They are a good insulator and help keep you warm on those very cold days.
I agree 100% with ya Tom. I'd never hunt a lay out with out neo waders. Who wants to lay in some over spray.
Gene R.
 
Tom's points are well made on the whole "waders pull you down when they fill up" issue. When I was "squeezing fish for a living", I dove routinely in wet and dry suits in Lake Michigan, Huron, and Superior. A dry suit is essentially a "Michelin Man" looking closed cell foam dive suit that seals at the wrists and neck and has an attachment on the chest for your secondary low pressure line that comes off behind the first stage regulator on the air tank instead of using an external bouyancy compensator. My wet suit is a 3/8" Posiedon Brute Suit for cold water diving. Both require a mountain of additional lead, twelve and eight pounds respectively, to keep me at neutral bouyancy when submerged, in comparison to using a standard 1/4" chemical blown neoprene wet suit. You have to get down about 50' feet before the neoprene in a wet suit's internal bubbles compresses significantly...

Neoprene waders are the same closed cell foam, which adds bouyancy to an individual on immersion. The only apect of stepping over the tops of your waders that impedes your ability to swim on full immersion is the "trolling bag effect" imparted by open topped waders. If you wear a wader belt (Simms makes a really nice one with lumbar support pads that keeps your kidney area a little warmer in a layout boat and provides good lumbar support) cinched tight, even standard or Gore-tex breathables will lend good bouyancy to keep you afloat with minimal water intrusion. Simply pull your knees into your chest if you are in a current and work your way to shore. I have the dubious distinction of falling off slimy logs three times while electrofishing streams with a pulsed DC shocker running-not a fun experience, but not lethal either.

Cold water immersion carries a much greater risk of mortality if you go overboard, since massive vasoconstriction immediately occurs, making your heart work significantly harder to maintain blood flow to your extremities against this higher head pressure (preload increase). If you have significant background CAD, you run a much higher risk of a MI or sudden cardiac death event, should you go swimming unintentionally. A pair of fleece under-wader pants, in combination with neoprene waders that are close fitting and cinched by a wader belt tightly at your torso level, are a pretty decent offset to help keep you afloat following accidental immersion, as well as minimizing water intrusion and aiding in minimizing conductive heat loss increase when you get back on board.

Most of you likely recall the old saying: "Layout hunting is a waterfowling technique best practiced by individuals with currently paid-up life insurance policies!" Modern layout boats and tender equipment, as well as adequate precaution(s) and safety practices lower that background calamity risk...a pee bottle on board is also a good idea, which enables you to roll over onto your knees facing the anchor line whle relieving yourself.

That was the issue of the old Bankes pumpkinseed layout: to keep it from being designated a sinkbox, as well as allow an adequate sight field from the cockpit, due to their high freeboard design, the boats had a slightly too-high center of gravity, making them capsize prone in a heavy chop.
 
I had two UFO's and sold them to buy two of the new design Bankes pumpkinseeds. There were two main reasons why I did this:

1: When you lay back in the UFO to get comfortable, you are naturally looking straight up in the sky. Within 20-30 minutes in the layout, we all would get a sore neck and headache from straining to see forward. (The Bankes boats have a more upright backrest which eliminates this.)

2: The spray curtain on the UFO needed constant maintenance. 100% of our hunts are from a layout and they take a lot of abuse. (The built-in spray shield on the Bankes works well and is built very strong!)

All in all, the hull thickness of the pumpkinseed is twice as thick as the UFO without a lot of extra weight. There is no cracking sound every time you get in and out of the boat. The Bankes is built like a brick craphouse!

Best Regards,

Todd
 
Jeff, Do you not want to buy a Bankes?

I have had UFO's, an Erie and others.

Please re-read my statements above. You get what you pay for regarding these boats. The UFO and Erie work. But if you use them as much as I do, you will end up spending a lot of money finding out what's best. I've done that already and have given you an honest opinion.

Best Regards,

Todd
 
Todd you have given very good info in your reviews, You have indeed used a lot of layouts. I believe you started with Bankes before switching to ours which you had all of them we offered and then back to Bankes and we are glad you gave our boats a try. So your review is well worth its value.


But let me comment on a few things. Our boats are indeed thinner and therefore lighter. They will flex a little indeed. If its a heavier boat one wants then Bankes is definitely built tougher than ours but also commands a much higher premium which comes from the fact it has more material used in its production. If someone wants us to beef our boats up we will gladly add another layer of glass to make it heavier as its not really going to make it any stronger due to the fact that fiberglass is plenty strong being lighter and with some flex.


Quite the opposite is possible with a rigid hull, It could sustain damage much more easily than a flexible design. Plenty of good reading on the internet if you so to indulge yourself on flexible hulls in boats.
We try to build what the average consumer wants in a layout and that's simple. A quality product at an affordable price. But with that said we can and will make them heavier and add some more glass to eliminate the minor flexing the boats have if someone asks us to. But it would be against our advise based on the design and how we build them. But the price will have to be adjusted accordingly of course.
And remember our boats are built right here in the USA.
One thing that is definitely something we are considering is the spray shield. Simply put they are a pain to put on and do require some maintenance and we are looking at all glass spray shields as well but they create a permanent Higher profile and now days that can be the difference between shooting ducks or not.


So in closing thank you for your honest review of our boats. And to anyone considering them we will be glad to answer any questions or concerns you may have.
 
I weigh in at 270lbs and hunted out of a duck boss layout this year with no stability issues in or out, and the bay was not calm.
 
Any body have or hunt out of the waterfowl works Erie layout. What are your thoughts on it


If I'm not mistaken the Waterfowl Works Erie layouts are made from the Busick 1 man molds. I have hunted from a Busick 1 man. Very nice boat. No where near the room of the UFO, but the Busick has a much lower profile. It literally disappeared in 6 inch chop.
 
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