Progress on the mast: The drawknife work is done, moved on to the low angle plane. Back is sore, time for some motrin!
BBSB Sail Rig - Under Sail!!!
- Thread starter Dave Diefenderfer
- Start date
Not much progress lately, other priorities, but still plugging along. Was waiting for a book to help me understand how this all is suppose to work. Today I rigged the sail to work out some more details. I have some work to do on the mast step, the mast would not rotate freely. I can see that some chunks of thickened epoxy have fallen into it and need to be ground out. Not a great place to work up in the bow, behind the daggerboard trunk, but it must be done. Need to make a couple more pieces of hardware and the spars will be done for now. Next onto the daggerboard and the rudder.
This is the sail that came with the hull. I left the mast step in the same location, though I did replace the step at the bottom and re-enforced the deck where the mast hole is. The sail shape is a Sprit sail. The "sprit" is the spar from the head of the sail to the mast. The Lateen sail is supported along the top, sort of like a shower curtain, though a triangular sail... the gaff rig has a "gaff" that hinges off the mast, like a boom but on top and is pulled up by a line. Sprit rigs can have a boom or can not. The advantage of no boom on a small boat is head clearance, so I made the mast a little taller (6") to clear the dodger and my head more easily. Again, not sailing to win any races!
Don't know if you can gleen any info on Rogers melonseed site,reference the mast step.so will tell you the setup.The bottom end of the mast is a dull point,something like a 45acp round nose.The step is shaped the same,and it works best wit a quater placed in the bottom.Use your states edition.My mellonseeds mast rotated freely and made downwind beaching simple.When I was looking for a sailing BBSB,I asked Roger,if anyone ever asked to make one up for duck hunting.He said a profound NO!I had an idea to have a sumbrella cover made to protect the topsides during duck hunting.No sail used,just a 44lb electric thrust motor attached to the decoy rack,I would make.Never happened.I already had a MLB sneak boat for hunting.
View attachment Marvin's Melonseed.jpg
View attachment Marvin's Melonseed.jpg
View attachment Marvin's Melonseed.jpg
View attachment Marvin's Melonseed.jpg
Joe, I follow the melonseed yahoo group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/melonseedskiffmelonheads/ and am familiar with Roger's site. I have perused is several times. I have Barto's line drawings on my wall at work, and stare at them on occasion. The Melonseed is on my short list for a future build. I thought you had started one?
I did make a tapered mast step, but need to clean up the bevel some this weekend. My mast is modeled after Roger's with the taper and then finally it is rounded. I add a picture late today. Since the mast step was installed 2 years ago, and the mast made just now, it is not too easy to match them up! Also the step is at an angle on the sneakbox. In hind sight, I should have shimmed it to make it parallel with the deck, and perpendicular to the mast, but I was copying what was already in the hull and had not thought that far ahead. I will have to look and see how I installed it to see if I can remove and replace it in the bow... not much room to work with the deck on. Everyting was much easier when I had deck boards off during the rebuild.
I know someone started a melonseed on here, I remember seeing the strongback.
I did make a tapered mast step, but need to clean up the bevel some this weekend. My mast is modeled after Roger's with the taper and then finally it is rounded. I add a picture late today. Since the mast step was installed 2 years ago, and the mast made just now, it is not too easy to match them up! Also the step is at an angle on the sneakbox. In hind sight, I should have shimmed it to make it parallel with the deck, and perpendicular to the mast, but I was copying what was already in the hull and had not thought that far ahead. I will have to look and see how I installed it to see if I can remove and replace it in the bow... not much room to work with the deck on. Everyting was much easier when I had deck boards off during the rebuild.
I know someone started a melonseed on here, I remember seeing the strongback.
John Bourbon
Well-known member
Dave, the pics look very, very cool. I love the one with you bent over the mast with drawknife in hand....
John
John
John, I worked quite a bit with the draw knife, but then switched to the low angle block plane which actually worked much better. I allowed me to drive through the knots in the timber much easier. With the draw knife I would hand up on them and when I pulled through them I ripped too much. The plane carved right through especially if I worked at a slight angle. I need to clean up the pile of shavings, I have a real fire hazard!
I opened this month's WoodenBoat, and what do I find, a feature on making wood and brass blocks! Definitely will be building some to go with the handmade cleats for this sail rig! I have some ipe that will work well, and may try to make my own sheaves too, now I wish I still had my lathe! But I can do much with a drill press too.
My sail reference arrived last week, and though it had some new info in it, not what I was hoping. I need to make a run to Tuckerton to see how the boxes are rigged. I have never sailed a small boat and need to figure out how the running lines are routed and where without having fittings and hardware in the way for hunting.
Did pick up a couple new books.... a really nice old reference Sailing Craft by Schoettle from 1928, some 900 pages on class sailing, includes the BBSB and the iceboats too.
I opened this month's WoodenBoat, and what do I find, a feature on making wood and brass blocks! Definitely will be building some to go with the handmade cleats for this sail rig! I have some ipe that will work well, and may try to make my own sheaves too, now I wish I still had my lathe! But I can do much with a drill press too.
My sail reference arrived last week, and though it had some new info in it, not what I was hoping. I need to make a run to Tuckerton to see how the boxes are rigged. I have never sailed a small boat and need to figure out how the running lines are routed and where without having fittings and hardware in the way for hunting.
Did pick up a couple new books.... a really nice old reference Sailing Craft by Schoettle from 1928, some 900 pages on class sailing, includes the BBSB and the iceboats too.
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Dave
A book that may help "Basic Sailing" by M.P. Morgan 1984 Marine library. It was a gift when I restored a "Thistle" racing boat. It's always good to get back to basics. I later crewed on the last Havana Cup race and it helped.
The best book you could get would be "The Handbook of SAILING" by Bob Bond. That too was a gift and will answer any question on sailing you could ask. Happy sailing.
wis boz
A book that may help "Basic Sailing" by M.P. Morgan 1984 Marine library. It was a gift when I restored a "Thistle" racing boat. It's always good to get back to basics. I later crewed on the last Havana Cup race and it helped.
The best book you could get would be "The Handbook of SAILING" by Bob Bond. That too was a gift and will answer any question on sailing you could ask. Happy sailing.
wis boz
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Some more porgress.... worked out the daggerboard cap/handle and dry fit that together:
It has since been routed on all exposed edges and is ready for glueing then epoxy and glass on the blade.
I then moved onto the rudder. First I had to build a stand for the outboard, and remove the OB from the boat. That is safely tucked in the garage, locked to my motorcycle to deter theft.
I laid out a plan on some luan....
But after starring at ot for awhile was not satisfied. I transfered the basic dimensions to my good wood, and drew some more.
I settled on this:
But once I hung it on the boat, was not happy with this either. So last evening I made several copies of the photo and proceeded to
draw a bunch of variations. The following are my preferences so far. What do you all think?
Searching my books and photos I can't find anything that screams BBSB.... there was so many variations?
It is obvious to me it needs to be smaller than it is now.
It has since been routed on all exposed edges and is ready for glueing then epoxy and glass on the blade.
I then moved onto the rudder. First I had to build a stand for the outboard, and remove the OB from the boat. That is safely tucked in the garage, locked to my motorcycle to deter theft.
I laid out a plan on some luan....
But after starring at ot for awhile was not satisfied. I transfered the basic dimensions to my good wood, and drew some more.
I settled on this:
But once I hung it on the boat, was not happy with this either. So last evening I made several copies of the photo and proceeded to
draw a bunch of variations. The following are my preferences so far. What do you all think?
Searching my books and photos I can't find anything that screams BBSB.... there was so many variations?
It is obvious to me it needs to be smaller than it is now.
Dave,
My vote is for profile #3, for no other reason than aesthetics. I feel the radii of this rudder profile more closely match the radii profile of a BBSB. I have no clue which profile is best from a sailing perspective.
My vote is for profile #3, for no other reason than aesthetics. I feel the radii of this rudder profile more closely match the radii profile of a BBSB. I have no clue which profile is best from a sailing perspective.
Scott Farris
Well-known member
My recommendation is to make the rudder go significantly deeper in the water. When you heel, a short rudder will come out of the water and you'll round up. If you need to keep the wicked shallow capacity, make it a pivoting style like a sunfish's rudder.
Scott
Scott
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Scott,
I wondered about that too, but then again, I am not a sailor nor did I ever play one in a movie. :>)
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Scott,
I wondered about that too, but then again, I am not a sailor nor did I ever play one in a movie. :>)
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Scott, John Bourbon expressed the same concerns. Looking at all the lines and photos I could find, all showed the rudder a continuation of the keel line. I suspect, that the sneakbox will squat quite a bit.... I have enough wood left over if I am not satisfied, then I will have something to do after the season next year!
I have settled on #3. now working on the cheeks for the tiller connection. Will have to weld up a bracket as I can not find what I am looking for on-line or at a reasonable price! If anyone knows a source for this bracket, let me know:
See that it has a pad eye mounted on it, I don't think I can bend a piece of SS that is thick enough to hold a couple countersunk flatheads for the pad eye. So I will use some steel, weld it up and prime and paint it.
I have settled on #3. now working on the cheeks for the tiller connection. Will have to weld up a bracket as I can not find what I am looking for on-line or at a reasonable price! If anyone knows a source for this bracket, let me know:
See that it has a pad eye mounted on it, I don't think I can bend a piece of SS that is thick enough to hold a couple countersunk flatheads for the pad eye. So I will use some steel, weld it up and prime and paint it.
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Dave,
Two options/ suggestions;
(A) use thin stainless and weld stainless nuts to the underside. Relieve the wood where needed to allow room for the nuts.
(B) use wood screws thru the bracket and on into the wood, instead of attaching pad eye only to the bracket.
(C) Does the wood handle need to freely slide in and out of the bracket? If so how about using thicker stainless (enough for the pad eye screws) and milling/grinding a groove where the bends will be. The thinned area will bend easily and the groove will close up as the material is bent.
View attachment bracket.jpg
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Dave,
Two options/ suggestions;
(A) use thin stainless and weld stainless nuts to the underside. Relieve the wood where needed to allow room for the nuts.
(B) use wood screws thru the bracket and on into the wood, instead of attaching pad eye only to the bracket.
(C) Does the wood handle need to freely slide in and out of the bracket? If so how about using thicker stainless (enough for the pad eye screws) and milling/grinding a groove where the bends will be. The thinned area will bend easily and the groove will close up as the material is bent.
View attachment bracket.jpg
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DWilliams
Member
Hi Dave -
Love your daggerboard - still on my project list.
Re: your rudder design, my boat came with a kick-up style rudder. Seems like this would be a good solution for you as it will allow shallow-running or beaching but would also provide a good bite when in the down position. (I share Scott's concern that heeling your boat will reduce the rudder's bite).
Here's a pic: View attachment rudder.jpg
The rudder here is in the 'up' position; pulling tight the line that attaches to the pivoting lower blade will drop that blade down from perpendicular to straight.
I'm sure that the interwebs will have no shortage of info on kick-up rudders. Here's one I saw after a quick search:
http://www.boatbuilding-links.de/Jim-Michalak/kickup-rudder.htm Not sure about leading the mainsheet to the tiller (!?) but otherwise a good example.
Oh, did you see that there was a good article about sailing BBSB that came out in WoodenBoat a while back? Lemme google... Okay here: http://www.mantolokingyachtclub.com/ducks-article.pdf
Looking forward to seeing pics of you at sail!
All the best,
Dan
Love your daggerboard - still on my project list.
Re: your rudder design, my boat came with a kick-up style rudder. Seems like this would be a good solution for you as it will allow shallow-running or beaching but would also provide a good bite when in the down position. (I share Scott's concern that heeling your boat will reduce the rudder's bite).
Here's a pic: View attachment rudder.jpg
The rudder here is in the 'up' position; pulling tight the line that attaches to the pivoting lower blade will drop that blade down from perpendicular to straight.
I'm sure that the interwebs will have no shortage of info on kick-up rudders. Here's one I saw after a quick search:
http://www.boatbuilding-links.de/Jim-Michalak/kickup-rudder.htm Not sure about leading the mainsheet to the tiller (!?) but otherwise a good example.
Oh, did you see that there was a good article about sailing BBSB that came out in WoodenBoat a while back? Lemme google... Okay here: http://www.mantolokingyachtclub.com/ducks-article.pdf
Looking forward to seeing pics of you at sail!
All the best,
Dan