Blackjacks, etc...

[Ryan Tucker]

These boats all seem very small to me to be traveling across open expanses of water, bays, etc...They aren't really apart of the waterfowl traditions I grew up around. Why would someone prefer a AA Blackjack for example to a 1648 jon boat to cross open water? Just curious...they look awesome and seem like they would add to the overall experience of the hunt.

 

[Matt Masters]

I just sold my jon boat and still have my Blackjack. I trust the Blackjack more in rough water than I did my jon boat. It was a flat bottom and that had a lot to do with the seaworthiness of it.

 

[Ryan Werden]

These boats all seem very small to me to be traveling across open expanses of water, bays, etc...They aren't really apart of the waterfowl traditions I grew up around. Why would someone prefer a AA Blackjack for example to a 1648 jon boat to cross open water? Just curious...they look awesome and seem like they would add to the overall experience of the hunt.

Depends on what you mean by "open water". I wouldn't want to be in either a jon or blackjack on any lake or bay that could get ugly quickly. The blackjack does have a deck on it which would help shed some water from coming into the cockpit. The jon is a floating box with no deck.

 

[Ray]

The size is not important. It is the shape of the hull and how the hull responds to the water the boat is moving through.

With a semi-V semi displacement hull on a sneak boat you have awesome primary and great secondary stability when the boat is moving through waves or being moved around in by leaning over the side.

A flat hulled jon boat is great on flat water, but when the waves build, it will have a harder time staying stable. It will ride the face of the wave which puts you at a higher risk of being swamped on the down hill (trough) side of the wave.

Can you walk around the gunnel of your empty 1648 jon boat like a tight rope walker?

I can walk my fat butt around the whole deck of my sneak boat and it only lifts an inch or so out of the water on the opposite side. It does not try to squirt out from under me as I dance around the deck either.

 

[Gray Giesfeldt]

IMHO Ray: everything you said is correct but I think you stopped short. And that's freeboard. Sneak boats (I have a Devlin BB) have zilch for freeboard. Yes they rock back on the rear flats and the nose comes up when you power up and the deep V hull is inherintly stable and the nose cuts through waves. But bottom line is there isn't much above the water to keep a wave from rolling over the bow. Now the Jon boat (I also have a 16/54 Phowler, new last year) It has 24 in sides. It's twice the weight of the BB and Yes I can walk around the perimiter. I doubt if you could tip that over if you tried. And the tall nose goes over the waves. In big water there is no substitute for freeboard and weight. Which one would I take out on Sandusky bay in blow. Not sure IF I'd take the Phowler since I haven't had it that long but I ABSOLUTLERY would not take the BB out there. I raced sailboats for 25 years and I been out in some truly nasty stuff in small dinghy's and ocean going keel boats. There's a big difference between long rollers on Pudget sound and short chop on lake Winneabago. IMHO you have to match the boat to the type of water you operate in.

 

[GIL SEAY]

I THINK THE PREVIOUS POSTS BY RAY AND GRAY ARE SPOT ON. WHILE NOT A BLACK JACK, MY PRIMARY IS A DEVLIN BLUEBILL, (12'). I ALSO HAVE A 16' POLAR KRAFT WITH SEMI-V.
I ROUTINELY CROSS THE RAPPAHANNOCK RIVER AT A POINT WHERE IT IS ABOUT A MILE WIDE. I KNOW THAT DOESNT SOUND LIKE MUCH TO SOME OF YOU, BUT OUR PREVAILING NORTHWEST WINTER WIND BLOWS STRAIGTH DOWN RIVER. I WAS VERY CAUTIOUS, IN THE BLUEBILL, AT FIRST, JUST FROM LACK OF EXPERIENCE. THIS IS THE END OF MY THIRD SEASON WITH THIS BOAT, AND I CAN TELL YOU WITHOUT A DOUBT I FEEL VERY SAFE IN THIS BOAT. NOW DONT GET ME WRONG, I DONT MEAN ITS BULLET PROOF, LIKE ANYTHING YOU HAVE TO KNOW YOUR, AND YOUR VESSELS, LIMITS. FOR ME THAT ABOUT 17 MPH STEADY WIND. I HAVE RUN IT IN A GOOD 20-22 MPH AND THAT CREATED A LITTLE MORE "PUCKER FACTOR" THAN I AM COMFORTABLE WITH. NICE TO KNOW I COULD DO IT, JUST DO NOT WANT TO DO IT EVERY DAY.
THE BOAT HANDLED ADMIRABLY, I WAS MORE NERVOUS ABOUT MY ABILITY. I HAVE ALSO SEEN SOME GUYS RUNNING A 16 JON NEARLY KILL THEMSELVES IN 20 MPH WIND JUST BECAUSE OF A LACK OF BOAT HANDLING SKILLS, OR JUST GENERAL STUPIDITY.

 

[tod osier]

IMHO Ray: everything you said is correct but I think you stopped short. And that's freeboard. Sneak boats (I have a Devlin BB) have zilch for freeboard. Yes they rock back on the rear flats and the nose comes up when you power up and the deep V hull is inherintly stable and the nose cuts through waves. But bottom line is there isn't much above the water to keep a wave from rolling over the bow. Now the Jon boat (I also have a 16/54 Phowler, new last year) It has 24 in sides. It's twice the weight of the BB and Yes I can walk around the perimiter. I doubt if you could tip that over if you tried. And the tall nose goes over the waves. In big water there is no substitute for freeboard and weight. Which one would I take out on Sandusky bay in blow. Not sure IF I'd take the Phowler since I haven't had it that long but I ABSOLUTLERY would not take the BB out there. I raced sailboats for 25 years and I been out in some truly nasty stuff in small dinghy's and ocean going keel boats. There's a big difference between long rollers on Pudget sound and short chop on lake Winneabago. IMHO you have to match the boat to the type of water you operate in.

I don't agree, the commonality among most all true duckboats that makes them more seaworthy than a jon or deep V is the deck. An open boat does not shed waves in rough water, it absorbs them a deck sheds waves. Freeboard is relative, low freeboard and a deck trumps an open boat with much more freeboard.

 

[tod osier]

IMHO Ray: everything you said is correct but I think you stopped short. And that's freeboard. Sneak boats (I have a Devlin BB) have zilch for freeboard. Yes they rock back on the rear flats and the nose comes up when you power up and the deep V hull is inherintly stable and the nose cuts through waves. But bottom line is there isn't much above the water to keep a wave from rolling over the bow. Now the Jon boat (I also have a 16/54 Phowler, new last year) It has 24 in sides. It's twice the weight of the BB and Yes I can walk around the perimiter. I doubt if you could tip that over if you tried. And the tall nose goes over the waves. In big water there is no substitute for freeboard and weight. Which one would I take out on Sandusky bay in blow. Not sure IF I'd take the Phowler since I haven't had it that long but I ABSOLUTLERY would not take the BB out there. I raced sailboats for 25 years and I been out in some truly nasty stuff in small dinghy's and ocean going keel boats. There's a big difference between long rollers on Pudget sound and short chop on lake Winneabago. IMHO you have to match the boat to the type of water you operate in.

I looked at the phowler web site - they are a straight flat bottom, flat front open jon, not a boat that I would even compare with a decked true duckboat for open water use. There isn't a style boat that is worse in "big" water than an open, flat front, flat bottom jon , not matter the freeboard. That boat is a the posterchild for a horrible and unsuitable boat in open water.

Ray is right on.

 

[Pat Richter]

This is probably why none of us own just one boat. If you don,t know your boats limitations, hunt from shore.Common sense helps too.

 

[R.A. Coleman]

The Blackjack is bigger than my old AA Widgeon. I've gone a lot of plalces with her. I also don't have a death wish, and will hit the shore, stay there and camp out in a blow. We are hunting as recreation, if its that bad or looks like it could be, use you superior intelegence to keep your superior but out of a crack. Maybe I'm just chicken, but if I owned a self righting USCG 44, I'd pick my time to go fishing over the Columbia Bar.

 

[john townsend]

The open jon tends to get overloaded. A swamped boat in duck season spells DEATH. Almost lost a nephew that way. One wave filled the boat. I would pick the AA.