Boat Suggestions

[Jimmie Buckler]

Hey guys, just trying to get some advice from guys hunting Central Florida Lakes, - I’ve always hunted out of borrowed Kayaks and Canoes- hunted this last season for divers in central Florida area around Orlando with success, but the Kayak isn’t cutting it anymore. I have a dealer who can get me an any type of boat I’d like - but my predicament is the age old standard outboard vs mud motor. - I have only minimal amounts of time to explore the lakes in the past because I’ve been limited by my set up. There is no one size fits all boat- BUT for most of central Florida lakes I’d like to get some input from you guys. I will fish some in the summer and hunt a lot - for specifically lakes in that area- would you guys purchase an outboard or mud motor? Some might say both, but I’d rather get one and get to 75 percent of places I’d like if possible. Input from those who hunt the area would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Dani]

For central FL, I would go with a mud motor. They are more of a pain to fish out of but if you have a good trolling motor, the mud motor will get you where you wanna go and then use the trolling motor in those areas. Central FL waterways can be chock full of vegetation, or sprayed just prior to season and EVERYTHING dies off. For places chock full of vegetation, you'll have better access with the mud motor. So, if you really get into exploring the central FL area, having the mud motor will open up more places for you to explore. That's been my experience though.

 

[Jimmie Buckler]

For central FL, I would go with a mud motor. They are more of a pain to fish out of but if you have a good trolling motor, the mud motor will get you where you wanna go and then use the trolling motor in those areas. Central FL waterways can be chock full of vegetation, or sprayed just prior to season and EVERYTHING dies off. For places chock full of vegetation, you'll have better access with the mud motor. So, if you really get into exploring the central FL area, having the mud motor will open up more places for you to explore. That's been my experience though.

Understood, it seems everyone I talk to is 50/50 on this (even locals). I also am leaning towards a v hull because of bigger open choppy waters as well. I’ve talked to an Edge dealer, they make a V mud hull, standard hull, and a flat bottom, Edge themselves told me all their boats can handle mud motors fine - narrowing down what makes most sense for the area has been making my head spin.

 

[Clinton John]

Shallow water aka 2 foot or less and lots of weeds/mud is where the surface drive comes into its own.

Few things to understand about the surface drive.

You buy one with all the bells and whistles. FNR and electric trim. It's going to be heavy.its going to take a 15x48 size boat are larger to support the weight of the motor.

Most of not all surface drives that have FNR. Use a electric clutch. If your battery is dead or the clutch goes out. Your dead in the water.

It's going to be slow, you want it to be fast. You have to drop thousands of dollars on performance parts and work to make it fast(er). It will never be outboard fast. It will never jump out the hole and plane off as fast as a outboard

It's going to be loud and it only gets louder the more money you drop into it to make it faster. The life span of the motor shortens the more money you drop in performance parts/work.

It won't carry a big load aka lots of decoys and all your friends/family. You want it too do that your going to need a 18 foot boat, a 40 horse surface drive and 10k dollars worth of performance work.

All these vids you see of guys flying down the water with surface drives, have 10k dollars sunk into the engine and have lil to no load in the boat and most of them are running gutted out hulls.

That said there is the flip side of the coin.

This is where I live with the surface drive, custom built boats, super light weight and sized just long enough and wide enough for me and a small load.

Simple, light weight surface drives, copperhead, mud walker, no FNR, no electric trim.

Still loud, still needs a ton of money dropped on it if you want to increase performance with parts.

If you 'ABSOLUTELY' don't need a surface drive to get there and back. Always go with the outboard

Hope this helps.

 

[HenryHawthorne]

Shallow water aka 2 foot or less and lots of weeds/mud is where the surface drive comes into its own.

Few things to understand about the surface drive.

You buy one with all the bells and whistles. FNR and electric trim. It's going to be heavy.its going to take a 15x48 size boat are larger to support the weight of the motor.

Most of not all surface drives that have FNR. Use a electric clutch. If your battery is dead or the clutch goes out. Your dead in the water.

It's going to be slow, you want it to be fast. You have to drop thousands of dollars on performance parts and work to make it fast(er). It will never be outboard fast. It will never jump out the hole and plane off as fast as a outboard

It's going to be loud and it only gets louder the more money you drop into it to make it faster. The life span of the motor shortens the more money you drop in performance parts/work.

It won't carry a big load aka lots of decoys and all your friends/family. You want it too do that your going to need a 18 foot boat, a 40 horse surface drive and 10k dollars worth of performance work.

All these vids you see of guys flying down the water with surface drives, have 10k dollars sunk into the engine and have lil to no load in the boat and most of them are running gutted out hulls.

That said there is the flip side of the coin.

This is where I live with the surface drive, custom built boats, super light weight and sized just long enough and wide enough for me and a small load.

Simple, light weight surface drives, copperhead, mud walker, no FNR, no electric trim.

Still loud, still needs a ton of money dropped on it if you want to increase performance with parts.

If you 'ABSOLUTELY' don't need a surface drive to get there and back. Always go with the outboard

Hope this helps.

It sure helped me, John, having never had one. I've kind of assumed surface drive is something to have on a second boat for specialty purposes/locations - unless those specialty purposes/location are the only reason you have a boat. I think you just validated that assumption, and I can take it off my "maybe one day" list.

 

[Jimmie Buckler]

Shallow water aka 2 foot or less and lots of weeds/mud is where the surface drive comes into its own.

Few things to understand about the surface drive.

You buy one with all the bells and whistles. FNR and electric trim. It's going to be heavy.its going to take a 15x48 size boat are larger to support the weight of the motor.

Most of not all surface drives that have FNR. Use a electric clutch. If your battery is dead or the clutch goes out. Your dead in the water.

It's going to be slow, you want it to be fast. You have to drop thousands of dollars on performance parts and work to make it fast(er). It will never be outboard fast. It will never jump out the hole and plane off as fast as a outboard

It's going to be loud and it only gets louder the more money you drop into it to make it faster. The life span of the motor shortens the more money you drop in performance parts/work.

It won't carry a big load aka lots of decoys and all your friends/family. You want it too do that your going to need a 18 foot boat, a 40 horse surface drive and 10k dollars worth of performance work.

All these vids you see of guys flying down the water with surface drives, have 10k dollars sunk into the engine and have lil to no load in the boat and most of them are running gutted out hulls.

That said there is the flip side of the coin.

This is where I live with the surface drive, custom built boats, super light weight and sized just long enough and wide enough for me and a small load.

Simple, light weight surface drives, copperhead, mud walker, no FNR, no electric trim.

Still loud, still needs a ton of money dropped on it if you want to increase performance with parts.

If you 'ABSOLUTELY' don't need a surface drive to get

Shallow water aka 2 foot or less and lots of weeds/mud is where the surface drive comes into its own.

Few things to understand about the surface drive.

You buy one with all the bells and whistles. FNR and electric trim. It's going to be heavy.its going to take a 15x48 size boat are larger to support the weight of the motor.

Most of not all surface drives that have FNR. Use a electric clutch. If your battery is dead or the clutch goes out. Your dead in the water.

It's going to be slow, you want it to be fast. You have to drop thousands of dollars on performance parts and work to make it fast(er). It will never be outboard fast. It will never jump out the hole and plane off as fast as a outboard

It's going to be loud and it only gets louder the more money you drop into it to make it faster. The life span of the motor shortens the more money you drop in performance parts/work.

It won't carry a big load aka lots of decoys and all your friends/family. You want it too do that your going to need a 18 foot boat, a 40 horse surface drive and 10k dollars worth of performance work.

All these vids you see of guys flying down the water with surface drives, have 10k dollars sunk into the engine and have lil to no load in the boat and most of them are running gutted out hulls.

That said there is the flip side of the coin.

This is where I live with the surface drive, custom built boats, super light weight and sized just long enough and wide enough for me and a small load.

Simple, light weight surface drives, copperhead, mud walker, no FNR, no electric trim.

Still loud, still needs a ton of money dropped on it if you want to increase performance with parts.

If you 'ABSOLUTELY' don't need a surface drive to get there and back. Always go with the outboard

Hope this helps.

Its does to an extent! Luckily either type of motor is running about the same price, the problem is I can’t know what motor for MOST of these big lakes until I get on the water more. Used to swamps on the west side of Florida , hunted what little I could out of a kayak this last year and it was fine- but I’m usually at a 50/50 split on what people say I’ll need.

 

[Clinton John]

Its does to an extent! Luckily either type of motor is running about the same price, the problem is I can’t know what motor for MOST of these big lakes until I get on the water more. Used to swamps on the west side of Florida , hunted what little I could out of a kayak this last year and it was fine- but I’m usually at a 50/50 split on what people say I’ll need.

Well I have never hunted FL, so I'm not sure what kind of hull would work best but I can give some more advice.

Couple of questions.

Bottom condtions- Mud or sand?

Average water depth?

Load size? aka decoys/gear/people/dog

Water hazards? Wood/rocks

Do you plan on hunting from the boat?

 

[Carl]

Are you considering a long-tail or a surface drive?
Big difference in performance, handling and speed.

Years ago, my hunting partner had a 1654 GoDevil boat with a 30hp GoDevil longtail. We could go anywhere but no where fast.
With two guys, dog, gear and decoys, top speed was 12-14 mph in shallow water, more like 10 mph in deep water.
Yep, the physics of boat hull and water interacting with the bottom made it faster in 12" of water than in 24"+.
We could run though solid milfoil and hydrilla like it wasnt there. Nice vs. poling a hundred yards to get to our blinds, putting out decoys and picking up.
The boat floated and ran in 8" of water over sand, but sand and rangia shells were tough on the prop. He'd go through 2 props a season (we hunted 30 plus days a year back then.) Had a prop shop that could weld stainless, they would rebuild them for him.
Other than the one we broke a blade of off running over a log with a 10' gator laying next to it. Thats another story.
Not having any backup HP or speed made rough deep water no fun. You basically tried to hug the bank, find shallow water to get more speed, and/or plow through it when you had to.

My understanding is that surface drives have more power & speed, but they are even heavier than a longtail, expensive, loud and not fuel efficient.

I never bought a mud motor, I stuck to an outboard and just picked my battles.

 

[Jimmie Buckler]

Well I have never hunted FL, so I'm not sure what kind of hull would work best but I can give some more advice.

Couple of questions.

Bottom condtions- Mud or sand?

Average water depth?

Load size? aka decoys/gear/people/dog

Water hazards? Wood/rocks

Do you plan on hunting from the boat?

Some of those questions I can’t answer - but yes I will be hunting out of the boat- most of the time by myself. 2-4 dozen decoys is all. Open waters with lots of traffic in some parts of the lakes- others more shallow with hydrilla as Dani stated. I guess it’s more of seeking info from people who are familiar with the areas in particular- we have lots of public water that can be hunted in Florida.

 

[Jimmie Buckler]

For central FL, I would go with a mud motor. They are more of a pain to fish out of but if you have a good trolling motor, the mud motor will get you where you wanna go and then use the trolling motor in those areas. Central FL waterways can be chock full of vegetation, or sprayed just prior to season and EVERYTHING dies off. For places chock full of vegetation, you'll have better access with the mud motor. So, if you really get into exploring the central FL area, having the mud motor will open up more places for you to explore. That's been my experience though.

Thanks for the input- much appreciated.

 

[Carl]

Forgot to add, we were hunting upper Mobile Bay and the lower Mobile Tensaw River Delta Bays. Similar conditions, long runs over deep water to get to large grassy expanses of shallow water.
I'm in Tampa now but haven't bought a license since I moved down in 2019. I see lots of bluebills on Tampa Bay, but not much else.
Except in the neighborhood stormwater ponds, which are full of scaup, mallards, mottled ducks and black bellies in winter!

 

[Clinton John]

Some of those questions I can’t answer - but yes I will be hunting out of the boat- most of the time by myself. 2-4 dozen decoys is all. Open waters with lots of traffic in some parts of the lakes- others more shallow with hydrilla as Dani stated. I guess it’s more of seeking info from people who are familiar with the areas in particular- we have lots of public water that can be hunted in Florida.

Then in that case I suggest a welded aluminum 15x48 semi v hull and a 25 or 40 horse 4 stroke outboard.

It will serve you well for fishing in the off season and after you build up some knowledge of the areas you hunt and have a better understanding if you need a surface drive. If later you fill a surface drive or long tail is needed to hunt those areas, you can pick on up and just change the motors out for hunting season or you can recoup most of your money buy selling the outboard and buying a mud motor and use it all year long.

Put a nice pop up or scizzor blind on the boat to hunt from it. And as you gain knowledge on your hunting areas, you can add a better suited boat to hunt those areas.

When in doubt. Always go with the outboard first and a decent sized flat bottom welded aluminum hull like a 15x48.

 

[Jimmie Buckler]

Forgot to add, we were hunting upper Mobile Bay and the lower Mobile Tensaw River Delta Bays. Similar conditions, long runs over deep water to get to large grassy expanses of shallow water.
I'm in Tampa now but haven't bought a license since I moved down in 2019. I see lots of bluebills on Tampa Bay, but not much else.
Except in the neighborhood stormwater ponds, which are full of scaup, mallards, mottled ducks and black bellies in winter!

Where I hunted this last year, it was ring necks, ruddy ducks and buffle heads. Ruddy ducks were jumpshot but the others would come into my bluebill decoys. Paddling 1-2 miles along my local lake. So in your situation for the Bay Area you would’ve been able to “pick your battles” as you say an run an outboard?

 

[Jimmie Buckler]

Then in that case I suggest a welded aluminum 15x48 semi v hull and a 25 or 40 horse 4 stroke outboard.

It will serve you well for fishing in the off season and after you build up some knowledge of the areas you hunt and have a better understanding if you need a surface drive. If later you fill a surface drive or long tail is needed to hunt those areas, you can pick on up and just change the motors out for hunting season or you can recoup most of your money buy selling the outboard and buying a mud motor and use it all year long.

Put a nice pop up or scizzor blind on the boat to hunt from it. And as you gain knowledge on your hunting areas, you can add a better suited boat to hunt those areas.

When in doubt. Always go with the outboard first and a decent sized flat bottom welded aluminum hull like a 15x48.

That’s what the way I’m leaning at the moment. Appreciate the input. Boat blind is a must. I have a quote for a 1553 with a 40 HP tohatsu and jack plate. I might bump up to a 1650 , but either way- thank you.

 

[William Reinicke]

Jimmie, not sure your budget, but I run a Havoc MSTC 1756 with a 5000 efi mudbuddy. I run shallow and deep. I too need a mod v hull because I make big runs in deep water but then get up shallow. I run at elevation, so I know im losing performance. I run 30 with a load no problem. I always wonder what it would do at sea level. Its a dream rig and works very well. I run the big blade for best performance. All the 3 blades I have run just slip too much and it loses the ability to get on plane very quickly. The Hammer prop jumps right up with any load in the boat but top speed sucks. So big blade is best for me at my elevation. Dont hesitate to reach out with any questions.

 

[Clinton John]

That’s what the way I’m leaning at the moment. Appreciate the input. Boat blind is a must. I have a quote for a 1553 with a 40 HP tohatsu and jack plate. I might bump up to a 1650 , but either way- thank you.

Unless you intend to carry four or five guys and gear. I would stick with the 15x53 hull. A 15x53 can easily haul 3 guys and gear plus blind and 6 dozen decoys. Long as you and your friends/family aren't 6' tall 300lb plus like me lol

Remember every pound of boat you have is every pound of boat you have to fight with, should it get grounded by water going down or buy running up on the bank or some other objects and get high centered.

Also make sure it's actually 53 inches wide on the bottom. Some times you will see boats listed as such and such width but they are measuring the top width and not the bottom width

 

[Carl]

So in your situation for the Bay Area you would’ve been able to “pick your battles” as you say an run an outboard?

Exactly. One advantage was that the tide was usually up when I ran into my spots. Many days I ran until the motor started tapping bottom and then setup in 1-2', knowing it would drop down to barely floating the boat and I've have to walk it out to deeper water If I left before the tide turned. There were certain spots that were only easily huntable when we had a neap tide and south wind drove more water up the bay.
And some days we hunted in 2-3' deep milfoil beds because the gadwalls wanted to be there.

I'd take a day full of ringers any time. Back in the late 90s, we had tons of them on the Mobile Delta. Then around 2002, they just stopped showing up.
And I hear you on the ruddies, most of the time they seem to swim up vs. fly in. Cool little ducks though.
Here is my rig:

 

[Jimmie Buckler]

So in your situation for the Bay Area you would’ve been able to “pick your battles” as you say an run an outboard?

Exactly. One advantage was that the tide was usually up when I ran into my spots. Many days I ran until the motor started tapping bottom and then setup in 1-2', knowing it would drop down to barely floating the boat and I've have to walk it out to deeper water If I left before the tide turned. There were certain spots that were only easily huntable when we had a neap tide and south wind drove more water up the bay.
And some days we hunted in 2-3' deep milfoil beds because the gadwalls wanted to be there.

I'd take a day full of ringers any time. Back in the late 90s, we had tons of them on the Mobile Delta. Then around 2002, they just stopped showing up.
And I hear you on the ruddies, most of the time they seem to swim up vs. fly in. Cool little ducks though.
Here is my rig:
View attachment 66211View attachment 66213View attachment 66214

That a very similar setup to what I’m going to end up with! 15-16 foot boat with a full blind. I’ll have to throw in some coot decoys for good luck too- are you ( or did you) run a full dozen or more coots or did you just sprinkle them into your spread?

 

[Carl]

That a very similar setup to what I’m going to end up with! 15-16 foot boat with a full blind. I’ll have to throw in some coot decoys for good luck too- are you ( or did you) run a full dozen or more coots or did you just sprinkle them into your spread?

On upper Mobile Bay and the larger bays in the Lower Delta, I used 3 dozen coots, 1-2 dozen gadlwalls a couple of pintails, and 1-2 don mixed divers (bluebills, redheads buffies and cans). We were hunting big open water and spreads of 6-10 dozen decoys were the norm. The old I got, the closer to 6 dozen.

 

[Carl]

We stuck cane in the bottom around the boat to break up the outline of the boat blind and try to make it look more natutal. Phragmites or bamboo cane.