building kara- pods or no pods?

Justin Johnson

Justin Johnson

New member
So I'm in the planning stage of building a Kara hummer and I'm goingw to square off the back for a small outboard. Looking at all the videos and pictures, it looks like the back end hangs down quite a ways while under power. My spot is about a mile boat trip and during the colder part of the year, I don't know how I feel about that. So I was thinking about building in some floatation pods ala the hybrid with the pods. However I was wondering what the general thoughts on this are as far as how well they work vs a possible loss in performance.
 
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On my Kara that I built for a mudmotor the transom does go way down under power, but the transom isn't squared off, and the hull isn't a planing hull so that's why it does that. If you were to make the boat 14' long and straight along the chine from amidships back, and have the bottom flat from amidships to the stern I'll bet it would fly and probably the transom would not go down like that under power. I would build a model and tow it to see how it behaves first. That's how I came up with the design for the Peregrine.

Ed.
 
Thank you so much. I am extremely excited about starting a new project. I have always loved creating things that can be used, and I can't see a more fulfilling project than building a hunting boat. I used to do general construction, and now I build airplanes so I'm not overly concerned about the skills to build the boat. However, besides just boating around, I really have never paid much attention to the construction and the fluid dynamics of different features.
 
Justin,
I did exactly what your talking about.

I took the Kara design, cut it off at the rear deck support, and extended the cockpit back to that point, creating a transom for an outboard motor. I left in the taper along the sides and the rocker on the bottom rather than flattening them out as Ed suggests. Luckily, a buddy convinced me to add about 4" of height to the transom and taper that forward along the combing down both sides of the cockpit...adding extra freeboard to the last foot or so of the boat. The boat is awesome at slow speeds. With the rocker, the bow lifts a foot or so off the waterand there is no fear of spearing waves with it. I use a 3.3 hp motor on this boat, and it is perfect for marshy areas with me and the dog.

It can get dicey if you try and corner under power. When you turn, the design doesn't 'bank' into the turn, it simply pivots, with the bottom remaining flat on the water surface. This results in pushing the gunnel on the outside of the turn into the water, and possibly OVER the combing! I don't know if Ed's suggestion will help that a lot as it doesn't change the bottom panel configuration: it's still a flat piece of wood sitting on the water :)

As I said, for going slow in fairly protected waters, it's been awesome, but I had a couple times where I cut a corner quickly and that outside rear corner came close to going under. I don't run it at full throttle much any more unless I'm pretty sure of everything :)

I hope that explanation made sense?

Scott
 
Thanks Scott. Yeah the areas I'm planning on hunting it are all on pretty protected lakes and rivers although some of the spots are a bit of a ride. Which is the whole reason of building it for an outboard.

And yes I have thought about other plans, but I prefer the super low profile of the Kara, and it is the size I would like it to be. Do you have another suggestion that would be about the same?
 
Thanks Scott. Yeah the areas I'm planning on hunting it are all on pretty protected lakes and rivers although some of the spots are a bit of a ride. Which is the whole reason of building it for an outboard.

And yes I have thought about other plans, but I prefer the super low profile of the Kara, and it is the size I would like it to be. Do you have another suggestion that would be about the same?
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I don't have a home built suggestion that woudl have near as low a profile as a KARA that is designed to be used with a motor. It has for sure been done, but I would not put a motor on a KARA - it was designed to be poled.
 
I realize that it was designed to be poled, however isnt why we would want to build boats so we can get exactly what we want? I have a 14' Gregor to get to and from my hunting spots, so I really don't need a boat. However I want a boat that I can hunt from like a layout blind, and there are not any spots here that I can just pole to anyways. So I'm looking for a super low profile boat that I can add some doors to and stick in the brush, but I also need to travel upwards of a mile sometimes.
 
I realize that it was designed to be poled, however isnt why we would want to build boats so we can get exactly what we want? I have a 14' Gregor to get to and from my hunting spots, so I really don't need a boat. However I want a boat that I can hunt from like a layout blind, and there are not any spots here that I can just pole to anyways. So I'm looking for a super low profile boat that I can add some doors to and stick in the brush, but I also need to travel upwards of a mile sometimes.
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I've built my own boats with safety as a primary consideration.
 
Which goes to my primary question about the floatation pods. They seem to work well on some of the larger boats with mud motors and the Hybrid seems to benefit from them too, however I was wondering how much help they would give...
 
What size motor? specifically how much does it weigh?

You need to consider the distance you will be sitting from the motor. Whether you want to use a tiller extension to get your body weight further forward or not. If your skinny it probably is not an issue but if you have any weight to you at all you will want to be further from the stern.

Too much weight in the stern is why people need pods on a boat. Heavy motors, fat dudes, fuel tanks on short hoses, and a battery and you will be stern heavy. Move as much as you can forward and see how it goes.

If you square off the stern to full width at a distance where you can operate the motor without having to sit on the rear deck or coming you should not need to add anything to the stern of the boat.
 
Thanks Ray. The motor is an older 6hp Johnson that weighs probably 70lbs or so? I never weighed it, so I'm not too sure. I figure that it pushes our 12' row boat along ok, so it should be fine for this build. Also I figured I would mount the battery at the front of the cockpit area since I was going to go ahead and run nav lights since most of my boating is during the early morning. I was planning on putting in the gas tank right behind me, and I'm around 200 or so. So that is about 300 lbs sitting in the back of the boat, which is why I was thinking maybe putting in pods. I guess I could do a weight and balance on it just to find out where my cg is going to be. Lord knows as an A&P mechanic I've done that quite a few times...
 
Thanks Ray. The motor is an older 6hp Johnson that weighs probably 70lbs or so? I never weighed it, so I'm not too sure. I figure that it pushes our 12' row boat along ok, so it should be fine for this build. Also I figured I would mount the battery at the front of the cockpit area since I was going to go ahead and run nav lights since most of my boating is during the early morning. I was planning on putting in the gas tank right behind me, and I'm around 200 or so. So that is about 300 lbs sitting in the back of the boat, which is why I was thinking maybe putting in pods. I guess I could do a weight and balance on it just to find out where my cg is going to be. Lord knows as an A&P mechanic I've done that quite a few times...
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Justin,

Take a look at the commercial marsh layout boats that are similar as far as HP ratings. The Fatboy and DP are rated for 2 hp for a boat that is similar to the KARA. I think if you did the USCG horsepower calculation you would find that the 6 hp that you are talking is much too big. I've done the calculation before and found it easy enough, I'd think through the calculation and what it means to exceed the hp before moving forward with the KARA.

T
 
Justin,
What you're wanting to do is possible. I use a 3.3 hp motor, it weighs, maybe 30 lbs? It has a small internal gas tank, so add some more weight for that. I'm 200 lbs as well. I don't carry a battery. Here's a picture without the motor to give you an idea of the freeboard my boat has. It's lighter than what you'll get since mine is all fiberglass, so add another 20 lbs to the boat). Given that, take this picture and add about 50-70? lbs for your motor and wood frame and battery.

View attachment swamprat11small.jpg

You can put a small outboard on this boat and be fine, but don't plan on it being like one of the Devlin boats. They are designed and built for an outboard and handle rough water conditions well.

You can see how the side deck is only a inch and a half above the water line. As long as you're ok with that, and with going slow, I don't see a huge problem. I think Pods may flatten the boat out some, but that will push the bow DOWN (into oncoming waves) and won't fix the turning problem I mentioned in an earlier post. Heck, I have concerns when guys with large Jon boats blast past me.

Nobody is saying you shouldn't build a Kara, they are awesome for what it's designed for, I just think we all want you to be aware that it's a limited design.

That's the price you pay for an ultra low profile boat. For a more seaworthy alternative, I would (and have) consider the Devlin Broadbill or the Duckhunter boat (there is a small version out there somewhere).

Scott
 
Justin,
That 6hp is too much for the Kara. 2-3.3 hp 2 stroke is about it. The Devlin Broadbill would fit what you want to do.
Or you could build a pond box to transport inside your primary boat. Throw it out when you get where you want to hunt.
Much safer.
I know I sent you a link to a friends Kara. If you want to see one in person, before you decide to build, let me know. If you want to go out this summer and try out a FatboyDP with a 3.3hp, let me know. That will give you some idea of the limitations opf that design with a larger motor.
 
Scott, thanks so much for all of the info. I still need to comb out the fine details, but I'm feeling pretty good about the project. I can't wait until I can get out in the middle of the milfoil rafts and get some duckies
 
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