Cackler/Snowgoose questions

Bob Monteith

Bob Monteith

Member
After much consideration and bandwidth burning using the search feature on here, I may have narrowed it down to the two above for hopefully a Spring start.
I have a couple of questions that arose from reading many prior posts and I'm hoping any of you that built and run these hulls will weigh in.
First question has to do with the Cackler, is the rear most transom angle on the prints/ cut sheets correct to a 15-17 degree pitch regardless of whether traditionally built or with the designed well? I'm not sure I want to start modifying and guess and by gollying a proper pitch.
The second question has to do with porpoising as it sounds as though the Snow Goose may suffer more so from this than the Cackler. I carefully read Sam Devlin's thoughts/position in Pete M's post from several years ago in which Sam stated that about 70% of the boats built from these two designs benefit from wedges. Sam also commented about many over motoring a hull.
With that commentary on the table, in your experience are the HP ratings given in his plans considered ideal or the recommended maximum for the two boats above? Are the wedge drawings/ layout/location in both plan sets and how many of you incorporated them into the build?
I'm straddling the fence between these two designs and might be leaning more toward the Snow Goose and it's extra room. Having said that, I'm also wondering how well it may run with a 30 opposed to a 40.
Thanks in advance for your responses,
Best,
Bob
 
Hey Bob I'm right with you I was torn between the same two boats .I'm going with the cackler .I like the lines of it and I already have a motor for it .I have both sets of plans so we will see what happens.
 
Hi Jeff,
Looking forward to seeing your build! Out of curiosity, are the drawings for the hull wedges on both sets of plans? Which motor did you decide to go with?
Thanks for the help,
Best,
Bob
 
I don't see anything on the plans about the shims.I wouldn't get hung up about them.I added them to my broadbill and one of my Jon boats.I have a Yamaha 25 HP two stroke I'm gonna run on the cackler.
 
Thanks Jeff,
Not trying to get hung up, rather, plan ahead. If it's something that is inherent in 70% of the builds, I'd rather deal with it on the front end and not the back..... no pun intended :>)
 
Bob,
If space is the only issue, you can stretch the Cackler to 16' I do not recall anyone on this web site doing a stretched Cackler (maybe someone will chime in and correct me), but the Devlin site says it is easy.

-Bill
 
Thanks Bill,
I'm likely trying to harvest millet in a corn field but, isn't the Snow Goose a "stretched" or slightly bigger brother to the Cackler?
Honestly, I really like the Cackler, that said I was thinking that a little more room (about a foot or so) in the cockpit might come in handy for my bride and grandson along with a few crab pots in the bay after duck season with my buddies is over.
I sure wish I could look at one of them up close and get a better feel........
 
Bob,
I think the Cackler sides are a little higher, but really do not know the Devlin garveys that well. If crabbing, I would go 16'. Used to take my 2 teenage boys crabbing in Puget Sound in the BB2, as well as just one of them for spot shrimp, and think the extra couple feet would really help with space management. I used to bungee the pots to the bow, and had set up the shrimp bouys doubled up on pvc pipe with another 8" or so of pink foam in the middle, so space was always scarce. Cabellas used to have a deck mounted pulley for hand pulling pots that could be detached when not needed. If I could redo my time in Olympia it would be in a Snow Goose with one of those pulleys! (still have rope scars on the BB2 sheer)

I see you are in Portland. Sam is out of Olympia, may be worth a road trip if he has one in the shop. There are some folks on this site with Cacklers/Snow Geese, although the ones I know from WA area have not posted for a while. Good luck with your decision, but doubt you would be disappointed with either boat.

-Bill
 
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Bob,

I believe your timing for asking this question is a bit off, the owners are apparently off site for the holidays or off hunting. I don't own either but have hunted from Tod's Goose and Dave Morton's Cackler a couple of times (or more) each. I really like both designs as both handle snotty weather well, and keep a low profile for inshore designs. I would give the nod to the Cackler if your primarily a one man hunter with a second hunter joining you only occasionally. Don't think about a 3rd guy in it. The Goose is significantly bigger and (imho) makes a much better family boat. Search Tod's posts for lot's of year round use out of his on the CT shore. Dave fishes & hunts the Narragansett Bay pretty much year round with his Cackler.

Scott

ps: I have also been run around the upper Narragansett (given a tour) in Andrew's Goose but never hunted from it. All three boats were very nice builds from top materials to deal with the year round salt/coastal use.
 
Bob, If memory serves (and frequently it doesn't) the Snow Goose Cheech Kehoe built and launched in 2001 was the first Snow Goose finished on this board and perhaps the country. Again working from memory.....

I too debated between the SG and a 16' Cackler, and the SG won out for me. When in the boat by myself, I like to pull deeks over the transom, and I just couldn't figure out a way to do so with the Cackler stern.

I had an Evindrude 28 hp Special for the first few years (for economic reasons) and it was OK in the summer when the boat was mostly empty. As soon as it was loaded with hunting gear, the 28 wasn't enough. It now has a 40 ETEC with a tiller and is an absolute screamer. Even fully loaded getting on plane is a breeze. Since my 28 had the old style "little" prop with the bullet hub, comparing the motors is probably apples and oranges. I would however be willing to bet that a 30 HP ETEC with a modern style prop would be enough motor for a SG.

Overall, what do I think of the SG? For use here on Champlain, which can get seriously rough, I wish the boat was 2 foot longer and 2 to 3 inches higher freeboard. Mine needs wedges on the bottom, eventually I will get around to putting them on. Having said all that, I like it and intend to keep it many more years.

John Bourbon
 
I run a 23hp Mud Buddy surface drive on a modified Cackler, splash well with motor mounted on the rear of the boat, not inset as in the plans. I use trim tabs to control the porpoising of the boat, which was uncontrollable without them.
Boat two is a Scaup with a 27 hp Mud Buddy surface drive. I built wedges into this hull when I built the boat. No control problems. Both boats run 25 mph on GPS.
The main difference I see in the boats is that the Scaup is 10 times more stable. I feel the moving the motor to the rear on the Cackler took away some stability that was designed by Devlin. If you are planning to hunt with two or more I would go with the bigger boat and a larger motor. You don't have to use all the horse power, but is is nice to have if you need it.
I have run Devlin boats for 18 years and, in my opinion, you will be pleased with either design. They do what needs to be done when the weather is crappy....
 
Thanks fellas, all of your input is truly appreciated. I'm studying on this pretty hard.... Been waking up at 2 or 3 in the morning thinking about it...... I got the bug pretty bad. Thankfully I'm in great company........ ;>)
Do the plans provide options/ drawings to raise the freeboard if your so inclined? How flexible are the plans without getting yourself into trouble?
Sorry, lots of questions and I would like to learn.
Best,
Bob
 
The plans I have purchased do not include options...I have played with a small "pond Box" which I double the free board to have plenty of room for 'wader feet'...that worked out well so I am considering a scaup with the free board doubled...I like the depth of the cackler...
 
Remember, this is just a wood boat. If you don't go changing the plans too much, you will be fine... and if ever in doubt, contact the designer.


My Honker I raised the freeboard, increased the beam, and extended the length. The Scaup I am making this year, will have a top deck like a TDB. This will effectively raise the freeboard by a foot. The plans are just a starting point to get you on your way. Think of everything that you want out of a duck boat... and alter the plans to accomplish your end goals using the designers principals.
 
David, rather than a Scaup with 2'or freeboard.... why not just build a Snow goose? They are practically the same boat at that point... except the SG drafts less....
 
I love the looks of the scaup...the cackler/snow goose/honker are great boats..very safe..but my cackler is, uh, BUTT UGLY. I think the scaup with 6-8 inches of free board added would be great. Then Phil's thought of adding slope to the deck, which would be adding free board, is a thought also. Time to cut some card board, add it to the scaup, and see what it looks like.
 
I've never heard of a snowgoose that didn't need tabs and Joel who ran Sam's shop for years said that every single snowgoose he ever saw needed tabs (all cacklers have tabs as they are specified in the plans - they are NOT in the snowgoose plans). Sam typical suggestion for the snowgoose is to build without and then add them after "if" you need them. That may be a trivial job if someone is doing your shit work for you in the shop, but I found that adding them was a bitch job working upside down on a trailer that limited access. You could put it on stands and then still work upside down or flip it - which makes it a lot more of a job than slapping them on. Anyway, I'd add interceptor plates. I've had both and the plates are better in every single way that you can think of - no question. Build without and add plates. If you think ahead and put a piece of hardwood inside the transom when building adding plates would really be a piece of cake. I have a number of posts on them.

As far as which boat, Scott Farris is right on.

Sam's comments about overmotoring are odd and I'm not sure to make of them - I think he is blaming the fact that they porpoise on motor weight. Excess motor weight can make a hull porpoise. Adding a 4 stroke of the suggested hp will put more weight on the transom - no question. To get the performance that most expect from a custom boat, you want to be at the max that he suggests. Nearly everyone who doesn't put max motor on them is disappointed (if they have the stones to admit their mistake). The hulls are hogs, since they are have a short planning surface/rocker and need all the hp available to push the boat. If you do the USCG backyard builder calcs yourself, I think you will find that Sam's suggested hp is well below what would be allowed. John Bourbon's with an e-tec porpoises, but not as bad as mine with a heavier Yamaha four stroke (pre-tabs pre plates, of course) - to confirm the idea of transom weight accentuating porpoising. My Yamaha pushes my snowgoose over 30 knots loaded light and over 20 with a very heavy load. I can get on plane with any amount of weight that I would put in it, but I would never put less than a 40 hp on it to get the type of performance I expect at moderate speeds in heavy seas.

The snowgoose would flat out suck with a 30 as a duck boat. I think you would have trouble getting on plane with 2 guys and gear. If you haven't driven one of these boats, you can't appreciate how much you need the hp to get them on plane. They ride for a long time with a very high bow because of the rocker (or short planning surface) and use a lot of hp to get them over the bow wave. This is a great thing in rough water motoring around at 10-15 knots with the bow 3 feet off the water, but it uses a lot of the hp up. People think a 16 foot boat should be fine with a 20 hp and that may be true with a typical aluminum mod v or deep v, but not a rockered wood boat.
 
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David-would you mind posting a few pics of your boats with the surface drives on them? After looking at the Cackler's hull I'm having a hard time visualizing it doing well with a SD-my experience is that a surface drive and a V hull don't do well together. Have you had any problems getting your motor to trim out right?
 
Thanks again everyone for your very insightful posts. After reading the posts here on this thread and searching other/older posts and looking at Sam's website some more, I decided to fire off an email to Sam earlier this morning asking about the ease of lengthening the Cackler a foot or so more such that is mentioned on his website. The rationale was to maintain the higher front deck and inboard well as well as increasing the cockpit pit length up somewhat closer to that of the Goose's. I'm also considering over decking the bow like that of the Goose too.
Sam recommended that I look at the Snow Goose, I have since responded back mentioning my desire to stick with the Cackler plan and asked again about adding a foot or so of length to it and if there are any references or guidance in the construction notes in his plans providing any recommendations on how to do so to maintain the original design engineering or, if there may be additional reference material to purchase in order accomplish it.
Other than what I already like about the design of The Cackler has to do with accommodating the overall length of the boat, motor and trailer in my garage.
With 20 ft. of garage depth, I'm concerned about getting a Goose to fit when storing and having some room to maneuver around it.
Thanks again,
Bob
 
I will get some pictures...took a little playing but I figured it out...happy with the performance, but would like to be running in the low thirties instead of mid twenties...
 
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