Carving heads questions...

Matt Vanderpan

Matt Vanderpan

Active member
I have made a bunch of burlapped foamers and really enjoy them. I have used MLB heads, Autumnwings heads and Herters for those decoys. I really enjoyed hunting over a spread of my decoys. I recently came across some blocks of foam 12"x15"x"24" That i would like to make some super-duper magnum burlapped decoys of GE's and Cans. However if I put magnum heads on those decoys they would look like the ticked off a witch doctor and got their heads shrunk. I have searched through the old threads and got some good info but still have a couple questions.

Wood types... A lot of you talk about white cedar and basswod would red cedar or white pine be good too or is there more problems with those types?

Would glueing 3-4 pieces of 1x pine together to reach a desirable thickness work?

Do any of you ever further reinforce the bill with anything?

Dryness on wood. How dry should it be as to not worry about splitting?

anyother helpful pointers or tips will be appreciated.
 
I like white cedar. it carves nice sands nice and is lighter then the others. I do nothing to strengthen the bills other then paint them with west system. the cedar sucks it in and makes it harder. I would not glue the wood together for a head. and if it is a mag. you might need at least 3.5 inches thick for the width of the head. it all depends on your pattern.
 
I've made a grand total of about six decoys in my life, so I am not an authority of any sort.

Cedar worked fine for me. I have some basswood that seems to be good too (carves knife with a knife at least). I've read of guys (harker?) using KD 2x4 stock. I don't see why you couldn't use whatever you have access to.

Charlie
 
Bass, and white cedar have been the traditional way of doing things for awhile now. Both can take a little detail, but not as much as white pine. I have carved all 4 types of wood, White Pine is what I am using as of now and I love it. It can hold a lot of detail, not to hard to carve with a knife, and power carves with the best of them.

Red cedar is more openly grained so sometimes that will show through...can be good or bad depending on what you like. Also Red Cedar is toxic. I forget if its the fumes that come out of the wood especially when power carving but even while knife/draw knife work. So wear a respirator when working with that stuff.

I used basswood for my first dozen or so gunners heads and it works fine. It fuzzes up a little while power carving, but nothing thats to bad.

W.C. I have used the least, but was/is the wood that everyone uses on the east coast. I dont know too much about it, but im sure you would be happy with it.

Laminated 1x pine...DONT DO IT. get yourself some good carving wood, it will make your time carving relaxful instead of cursing at the wood every 5 min.

hope this helped,

Zach
 
and you should always wear a mask when grinding, sanding, any of it.....the resin's in any of the "softwoods", be it Red or white cedar, (same applies to White and Sugar Pine resins so don't think one is "safe" and the other isn't), are "carcinigenic" by themselvs and when ingested in the form of "dust" into your lungs the problem is compounded....if you WHITTLE then you don't have to worry about it...its the dust....

The above said the "dust" from ANYTHING that you sand ain't good for your lungs so as a "general" course of business don't inhale the stuff...use a collector and a mask....

I disagree on the laminating of wood to get stock big enough for large heads...Mike Prawdzik laminates his head stock and I've not seen any issues with it causing his birds to "suffer" either from the quality of the carving or the durability of his birds....others here have also "laminated" head stock with good results.....no questios it can be regarded as "not the best way" but its certainly doable, produces good results and is going to be easier and cheaper for you...and thats important for "first time" carvers.....expect "issues" when you carve across glue joints and also when you sand joined woods of different densities.....other than that just glue them puppies up and start hackin....after the first 100 or so if you are having positive results and enjoying yourself you can worry about using the "proper" woods....

Orient your bills so that the grain in the wood runs the same direction as the bill and remember that MOST ducks have straight sides to the bill with only the tip rounded....don't taper them unless the species dictates that....and leave the bill "bulkier" than you might think looks "right"....they'll last longer that way....

Good luck....and wear a mask....

Steve
 
I glue up spruce 2x material for heads using Titebond 3 wood glue. I haven't had any split and the glue line gives me a good centerline to work off of. Red cedar..either western red or inland red SUCKS for carving..one inch can be soft and the next inch harder than hell causing your fordom or knife to dig in and ruin the head..the bills don't last either. Decoys have and can be made out of anything handy which the old classics are. Designer wood is for Stef to use to make his birds that look like they are breathing.
 
Solid white pine, sugar pine or basswood are your best options. Steve's point of wearing a mask is a good one. A good dust collector system is an asset as well if you are going to power carve.

Good luck with your carving and God bless!
 
Matt, I see that white cedar has been recommended, but I would say no to a wood this soft for oversize heads. It works fine on teal, bufs, woodducks, and snuggle heads of medium size, but is not tough enough in my opinion for big, hard working decoys. As far as red cedar, I agree with Lee, as it is not very consistent and you can run into grain problems.

Your best bet is white pine, bass wood (I personally don't like the way basswood works), or black willow for oversize heads in my opinion.
 
hey vandy, I called down to Valley Hardwoods in dilworth and they carry the white pine if you are interested. Personally, I'm not good enough yet to spend any money on the wood i just end up ruining haha
 
Luckily I have a friend who is carpenter so I can get all the scrap 1x pine I want. Thankyou to all of you for your info, personal opinions and preferances.

Do you guys who wear breathing protection for wood dust, wear dust masks or 1/2 face with filters?
 
I wear a 3m respirator that i've had for many moons. It has two replaceable filters on it.

Get something that is comfortable and fits snug against your face. I've always found the throw away masks to be tough on the nose and they don't allow your hot breath to vent at all.

There's a nice face mask out there that fits snug all around the edges and has a small fan that keeps it cool. It's nice for fine sanding, and is on my list of things to get eventually.

-D
 
Matt, use whatever you have around for now. Don't go spending a lot of money on fancy wood. In the last 10 years I've tried everything I could get my hands on including gluing boards together like Steve said. Just use waterproof glue and seal the crap out of the wood before you paint it. If the can says 4 coats, then do four. In this picture there are heads made of poplar, red cedar, spruce from my firewood pile, and maybe one basswood one. I don't usually laminate them anymore because I got some bigger stock, but don't be afraid to use up the free wood you have access to. Its just wood. You can practice doing a few heads out a block of cheese while you watch Hockey Night in Canada (do you get CBC in Grand Forks?) and eat the scraps as you go.

I wear a mask with the canister filters and if you want a good seal it helps to be clean shaven.

Good luck and post some pics.

Mike

DSCF8074.jpg
 
Nice bunch of heads Mike! Recient pic?

Matt, I had some basswood that was a bit too thin for ducks, and laminated it into heads and necks for geese. Didn't work bad, but watch your grain as you are carving across the glue line, as it can grab and you will get a gouge. I laminated some 1x scraps into a breast block on a couple of geese also.

canvasgoose016.jpg


They ended up alot front heavy, next ones I think I will try to get away with 3 layers instead of 5. It got the job done. That head and neck in the back is 4 pieces, two half heads and 2 half necks.

As far as respirators...(cough, hack, cough)...that would be a good idea.

Chuck
 
while you watch Hockey Night in Canada (do you get CBC in Grand Forks?) and eat the scraps as you go.
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I love hockey night in canada. Truely pure hockey, compared to ESPN where they cut to commercial everytime two guys have a yard sale.
 
I stand corrected on the lamination of boards together. I had only done it once, and I must have had a bad chunk of wood...If it works for you go for it!

Mike, those heads look great, I really like the eider! You still using those flap sanders?

THanks for sharing

Zach
 
ooohhh yea don cherry and ron mclean a couple of molson canadiens tampa bay lightning up 4-0 on montreal and some deer sausage, superbowl dosent even come close.

with all those heads sitting there im getting all worked up, i might need to go out and do up a bunch myself.

well i'll chime in on this. i agree with mike and steve, when the old legends back in the day were carving decoys i dont think they had much of a wood selection. im willing to bet that what ever was soft to a knife and was in the wood pile out back was what became some of the most valuable decoys ever.

personally i carve white cedar, ive done some fairly large heads and havent had much of a problem. i have a bunch of white cedar on the farm right now that im cutting and drying so i wont have to pay big money for a piece at some store. ive carved basswood and prefer cedar, it sands smooth and carves fast. i dont know much about the other options listed here, but i use pine for my keels(also free stuff on the farm) and i carve the round edges front and back of them and it carves nice to so i couldnt see why it wouldnt make a good head.

eddie
 
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you're right in the heart of White Pine country, (flushable fact of the day---of which the stealing from the Crown is arguably the FIRST "Commercial" Venture in what was to become the Good Old United States of America), which would explain why it carves so nice.....

I've never had the opportunity to use it but am told that its comparable to Sugar Pine and if thats the case it would be sweet wood to use for sure....

Steve
 
Do you guys who wear breathing protection for wood dust, wear dust masks or 1/2 face with filters?
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Steve hit most of the highlights on dust protection. I thought I would add a bit.

N100 is now the standard filtration in masks/respirators. Old standard was N95 (still damn good mind you) So when you look for your cansisters or whatever, find ones rated for the higher standard.

3M makes some good filter masks that are N100 rated and come 25 ? or 50 to the box and just have a couple of straps. They are disposable.

My favorite though is a full respirator by 3M that has SILICONE face mask with interchangeable cartridges. The SILICONE fits your face better, is more supple and is comfortable for a long session. Rubber masks are often made of latex and are significantly less comfortable.

Dust collection is huge, but that is another topic. but do yourself a favor, use something. 1 micron bags to replace the 30 micron that comes with most set ups is mandatory. if you have 1.5 to 2 HP you have enough ponies to not overwork your collector.

Steve also mentions the resins, Red Cedar is known to be one of the worst allergen producing woods, not to mention carcinogenic. Check out this link http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis30.pdf for a ton of info on woodworkers risk.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/ This is the link to the US Forestry Service in Madison WI. More about wood than you ever wanted to know....

Ever have specific questions, PM me and I would be glad to help.
 
indeed steve tis white pine and tall ones at that. we do have a few and far between red pines that have found there way into the woods from the more urban areas where there are more of an ornamental yard tree. i am very lucky to live on a farm with a sugarbush for maple syrup a pine stand of decent size and cedars that strecth the width of the property. on our other farm its all pine and hemlock mixed with a cedar swamp, great deer hunting.

eddie
 
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