Vince Pagliaroli
Well-known member
What???
contemporary carver collector challenge..where do we go from here?
- Thread starter uncle mike pierce
- Start date
Vince Pagliaroli
Well-known member
The Power (electric or not) is in "The Force"................and Obi-Wan holds The Power. I am just a humble follower, of the Jedi Master, with ADD and bi-polar -WHAT? Are You talikin' to me?!
uncle mike pierce
Active member
Rich:
Glad to hear that you are excited to be back in the shop and trying to create what you see in your head.
I have never seen your work, but if you are, or have been, artistically blocked, bogged down in details, etc., you are a creative person trying to express his take on a decoy, which makes you an artist (whether you like being called that or not. When you get to my age and have been called a lot worse than "artist" you will actually embrace the term.)
It gets back to that old concept of "comfortable in your own skin". If you really find yourself sucked down that detail ridden road, try this: set a time limit on various parts of making and painting the decoy. There is one heck of a difference between doing the best paint job you can in 1 hour, versus 3 hours, versus 8 hours. When I made and painted decoys for money, I had several antique dealers who had me paint both new duplicated wooden decoys and stripped, primed antique decoys. At that time I charged by the hour and the dealers would hand me the decoys and say, "give me one hour paint jobs" which meant a $10 paint job. Sometimes they'd ask for a 2 or 3 hour paint job, or say, "give me the best $50 paint job you can." For the one hour paint jobs, they knew I had to have a minimum of 6 decoys, same specie and gender for the $10 apiece price to apply so I could set up an assembly line and minimize down time and mixing time per decoy.
First, you'd be amazed what you can do in an hour of painting, if you plan it out and already know how to mix your colors, AND you have multiple decoys to paint in an assembly line process. But by the same token, that time limit forces you to stylize some details, omit others, and use some old time techniques like sponging, combing, stippling, etc. It can also change your whole perspective on what a "good" paint job is. I have done some "great" one hour paint jobs, but they certainly wouldn't be considered "great" as compared to what I could have produced if I had taken even three hours per decoy. With the exception of a few decoy makers like Crowell, Wheeler, Enoch Reindahl, etc., I doubt if most of even the hallowed, big name carvers took more than an hour, total time, to paint each decoy, not if they were doing decoys to sell to hunters anyway. Think the Ward Brothers, who had a sanding belt running around their shop to save time in finishing the birds took multiple hours to paint each decoy? I kind of doubt it.
One of the best pieces of decoy carving and painting advice I ever got was from Jim Foote, who could carve and paint decoys faster than most anyone who was competing back in the 1970's and 1980's. I loved his free ranging, impressionistic, and risk taking artistic style (the exact opposite of his friend Larry Hayden who as a commercial artist, planned everything, was precise and tight). His suggestion was to carve and paint at least 6 decoys of the same specie and gender at the same time, starting with the heads. He urged me to rough out the heads, then look at them all and rank them from best to worst. Then he urged me to take the worst head, and as I added detail, to try to make it the best. Ditto for the carving of the body, ditto for the painting. By doing multiple decoys at a time, you don't get invested in one, you take more risks, and if one turns out better or worse than the others, so be it.
That advice has really made a big difference in my carving and painting, at least in my satisfaction with my carving and painting. Maybe it will work for you, maybe not............ Just some shared solutions that work for me.
Glad to hear that you are excited to be back in the shop and trying to create what you see in your head.
I have never seen your work, but if you are, or have been, artistically blocked, bogged down in details, etc., you are a creative person trying to express his take on a decoy, which makes you an artist (whether you like being called that or not. When you get to my age and have been called a lot worse than "artist" you will actually embrace the term.)
It gets back to that old concept of "comfortable in your own skin". If you really find yourself sucked down that detail ridden road, try this: set a time limit on various parts of making and painting the decoy. There is one heck of a difference between doing the best paint job you can in 1 hour, versus 3 hours, versus 8 hours. When I made and painted decoys for money, I had several antique dealers who had me paint both new duplicated wooden decoys and stripped, primed antique decoys. At that time I charged by the hour and the dealers would hand me the decoys and say, "give me one hour paint jobs" which meant a $10 paint job. Sometimes they'd ask for a 2 or 3 hour paint job, or say, "give me the best $50 paint job you can." For the one hour paint jobs, they knew I had to have a minimum of 6 decoys, same specie and gender for the $10 apiece price to apply so I could set up an assembly line and minimize down time and mixing time per decoy.
First, you'd be amazed what you can do in an hour of painting, if you plan it out and already know how to mix your colors, AND you have multiple decoys to paint in an assembly line process. But by the same token, that time limit forces you to stylize some details, omit others, and use some old time techniques like sponging, combing, stippling, etc. It can also change your whole perspective on what a "good" paint job is. I have done some "great" one hour paint jobs, but they certainly wouldn't be considered "great" as compared to what I could have produced if I had taken even three hours per decoy. With the exception of a few decoy makers like Crowell, Wheeler, Enoch Reindahl, etc., I doubt if most of even the hallowed, big name carvers took more than an hour, total time, to paint each decoy, not if they were doing decoys to sell to hunters anyway. Think the Ward Brothers, who had a sanding belt running around their shop to save time in finishing the birds took multiple hours to paint each decoy? I kind of doubt it.
One of the best pieces of decoy carving and painting advice I ever got was from Jim Foote, who could carve and paint decoys faster than most anyone who was competing back in the 1970's and 1980's. I loved his free ranging, impressionistic, and risk taking artistic style (the exact opposite of his friend Larry Hayden who as a commercial artist, planned everything, was precise and tight). His suggestion was to carve and paint at least 6 decoys of the same specie and gender at the same time, starting with the heads. He urged me to rough out the heads, then look at them all and rank them from best to worst. Then he urged me to take the worst head, and as I added detail, to try to make it the best. Ditto for the carving of the body, ditto for the painting. By doing multiple decoys at a time, you don't get invested in one, you take more risks, and if one turns out better or worse than the others, so be it.
That advice has really made a big difference in my carving and painting, at least in my satisfaction with my carving and painting. Maybe it will work for you, maybe not............ Just some shared solutions that work for me.
Rich Hohler
Active member
That is good advice Mike. I guess i would rather be called an artist rather than a seamstress (for you Chuck) any day of the week. Part of my frustration I guess comes from only having small blocks of time in the shop recently but that is changing very soon as the kid's activities are slowing down a bit. I think another piece of the puzzle is having a familiar process to follow. It's funny that I used to be so intimidated by painting a woodie, drake or hen, but I have done so many that its really no big deal now and I move right through it. I also try to do at least three to six decoys of the same species at the same time which definitely helps. I must say though that I'm not one to take any risks in painting and I think that holds me back a bit. I know you can always just repaint it but it kills me to think the time was wasted on the first attempt. I guess I need to realize that growth and further advancement can be gained by the first attempt that gets painted over and eventually painting over an undesired result would become more of the exception. I have really enjoyed these discussions and look forward to posting these three bluebills on the workbench thread later this month.
P.S. I'm a big fan of Red Skelton also!
P.S. I'm a big fan of Red Skelton also!
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Cody Williams
Well-known member
I'm speaking from a total outsider's perspective here, since I only make gunning decoys for my own use, but it seems interesting to me that people are always trying to turn a subjective art into a competition. Bottom line is that for a competition to work there has to be a baseline that is considered "right", and when you step into the real world you have to realize that there is really no such thing as "right." Especially when it comes to decoys. I suppose the absolute judge would be the birds themselves but since ducks will decoy to milk jugs I suspect that they would be a bit more lenient that your average contest judge.
I was reading the other day in a fly-fishing magazine about the growth of competitive fly-fishing, which is very popular in Europe and is making its way into the states. I personally can't think of a better way to ruin a beautiful, meditative sport than with artificial, self-imposed rules but there is always that group of people who need to compare themselves against everyone else in order to reassure themselves that what they are doing is "right." To each their own I suppose.
I was reading the other day in a fly-fishing magazine about the growth of competitive fly-fishing, which is very popular in Europe and is making its way into the states. I personally can't think of a better way to ruin a beautiful, meditative sport than with artificial, self-imposed rules but there is always that group of people who need to compare themselves against everyone else in order to reassure themselves that what they are doing is "right." To each their own I suppose.
Vince Pagliaroli
Well-known member
We were at a couple of decoy shows last year, where decoys were judged outside. Not in tanks, but real water. During the judging, a pair of mallards came into the Decoys being judged.
The Decoys that tolled to the Mallards didn't win! On lookers who had never seen a decoy contest, wondered WHY those decoys didn't win? Funniest thing I ever saw in 31 years of going to shows.
Just like fly tying I guess? What we SEE and envision, is WAY different from what the species we are after does............ Part of the human condition I guess. Thank God.
Like or dislike the results of Decoy contests. They are a key function that draws us all together, usually to some wonderful places, with good folks, and thats a Good thing.
The Decoys that tolled to the Mallards didn't win! On lookers who had never seen a decoy contest, wondered WHY those decoys didn't win? Funniest thing I ever saw in 31 years of going to shows.
Just like fly tying I guess? What we SEE and envision, is WAY different from what the species we are after does............ Part of the human condition I guess. Thank God.
Like or dislike the results of Decoy contests. They are a key function that draws us all together, usually to some wonderful places, with good folks, and thats a Good thing.