Daily vs Possession

J

jim bosanny

Active member
Sitting in the marsh yesterday with a friend we were talking about the daily limit and the possession limit. We've been hunting for many years and neither of us had an answer we were 100% sure of. If you take a daily limit in the AM, take the birds home clean and freeze, can you go back the same day for an evening hunt and take more birds? Seems like it should be simple to figure out but the more we talked the less certain of the answer. Maybe we just had too much coffee and were over thinking? I'll be interested in the "right answer". Thanks.
 
The only place I have heard that "double dipping" was legal is in Alaska. Once fish and maybe game is preserved to last over a certain number of days you can take more. I learned this when fishing there several years ago. People had set up to can fish at the campground and then get back in the river. If you were to go home, clean and freeze game it still is daily. More concern is possession limits in the freezer, all you can legally have in your freezer is whatever the "possession limit" is. Any violators on that one out there?? I am not a lawyer and didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn so I invite more comments and clarification if that is possible.
 
The only place I have heard that "double dipping" was legal is in Alaska. Once fish and maybe game is preserved to last over a certain number of days you can take more. I learned this when fishing there several years ago. People had set up to can fish at the campground and then get back in the river. If you were to go home, clean and freeze game it still is daily. More concern is possession limits in the freezer, all you can legally have in your freezer is whatever the "possession limit" is. Any violators on that one out there?? I am not a lawyer and didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn so I invite more comments and clarification if that is possible.
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In AK just sport fish (but not halibut), disappear from possession once preserved (canned, froze, etc...).
 
Once you shoot a limit, you are done for the day. Doesn't matter if you take them home and clean, cook, eat or freeze them. Daily limit is just that, the daily limit.

Possession limit is funky thing, especially since state and federal definitions conflict in many case.
In many states, once you clean a critter and store it at your place of permanent residence, it no longer counts towards possession limits.
But, when it comes to waterfowl, fed regs trump state. Period. And the federal rule does not make a distinction between car, camp or place of residence.
That said, unless you are under suspicion for some other serious game violation, I seriously doubt federal wardens are going to take the time to get a search warrant to check the freezer in your house to count the number of ducks and geese you have cleaned & frozen.
The time you need to be really conscious of possession limits is when you are staying in camp for more than 3 days. The possession limit on ducks is now 3 times the bag limit, so if you are in camp for 4 days and are lucky enough to shoot a limit every day the first 3 days, you better start cooking and eating ducks to stay under the possession limit or no hunting for you on day 4.
 
Carl- (Jim don't mean to hijack your post, but . . .) I have always wondered about the possession limit of "processed" game. I know hunters who have hunted in Canada, take geese and ducks to a meat locker, and jerky or sausage is made from the groups daily kill.

They tell me once the duck or geese is "processed", no limits apply . . .

Sounds fishy to me . . .

Miller
 
Do NOT have sausage made before you get home. We hunted Manitoba a few years ago and I mentioned it to the FWS guy at the border about having sausage made. His response was a chilling "Did you?". I said no but we had considered it. He said that if we had he would have given us a huge ticket - The rule for a feathered head or wing still applies for transport no matter if it's 10 miles or 2000 miles. They have no way of knowing what is in the sausage and may just cite you for having 50 Canvasback for example. In this instance I had sausage made out of our geese and ducks once we got back home. I suppose one could ask - "well if you had it made locally, how about the drive back from the processor?" I don't have answer for that.
 
Carl- (Jim don't mean to hijack your post, but . . .) I have always wondered about the possession limit of "processed" game. I know hunters who have hunted in Canada, take geese and ducks to a meat locker, and jerky or sausage is made from the groups daily kill.

They tell me once the duck or geese is "processed", no limits apply . . .

Sounds fishy to me . . .

Miller
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Varies between enforcement guys. Can never be sure what one will say.
 
Here is the entire CFR on "possession". It makes no reference to whether the birds are processed or not.
In regards to importation from Canada, there is another whole section on that.

[/url][/url][/url][/url]SUBPART D -- POSSESSION
§ 20.31 Prohibited if taken in violation of Subpart C.

No person shall at any time, by any means, or in any manner, possess or have in custody any migratory game bird or part thereof, taken in violation of any provision of subpart C of this part.

HISTORY: [38 FR 22021, Aug. 15, 1973]

[/url][/url]§ 20.32 During closed season.

No person shall possess any freshly killed migratory game birds during the closed season. HISTORY: [38 FR 22021, Aug. 15, 1973]
§ 20.33 Possession limit.

No person shall possess more migratory game birds taken in the United States than the possession limit or the aggregate possession limit, whichever applies.

HISTORY: [38 FR 22021, Aug. 15, 1973]

§ 20.34 Opening day of a season.

No person on the opening day of the season shall possess any freshly killed migratory game birds in excess of the daily bag limit, or aggregate daily bag limit, whichever applies.

HISTORY: [38 FR 22021, Aug. 15, 1973]

§ 20.35 Field possession limit.

No person shall possess, have in custody, or transport more than the daily bag limit or aggregate daily bag limit, whichever applies, of migratory game birds, tagged or not tagged, at or between the place where taken and either (a) his automobile or principal means of land transportation; or
(b) his personal abode or temporary or transient place of lodging; or (c) a migratory bird
preservation facility; or (d) a post office; or (e) a common carrier facility.



[/url][/url][/url]
HISTORY: [41 FR 31536, July 29, 1976]

§ 20.36 Tagging requirement.

No person shall put or leave any migratory game birds at any place (other than at his personal abode), or in the custody of another person for picking, cleaning, processing, shipping, transportation, or storage (including temporary storage), or for the purpose of having taxidermy services performed, unless such birds have a tag attached, signed by the hunter, stating his address, the total number and species of birds, and the date such birds were killed. Migratory game birds being transported in any vehicle as the personal baggage of the possessor shall not be considered as being in storage or temporary storage.

HISTORY: [38 FR 22021, Aug. 15, 1973]

§ 20.37 Custody of birds of another.

[/url][/url]No person shall receive or have in custody any migratory game birds belonging to another person unless such birds are tagged as required by § 20.36.

HISTORY: [38 FR 22021, Aug. 15, 1973]

§ 20.38 Possession of live birds.

Every migratory game bird wounded by hunting and reduced to possession by the hunter shall be immediately killed and become a part of the daily bag limit. No person shall at any time, or by any means, possess or transport live migratory game birds taken under authority of this part.

HISTORY: [38 FR 22021, Aug. 15, 1973]

§ 20.39 Termination of possession.

Subject to all other requirements of this part, the possession of birds taken by any hunter shall be deemed to have ceased when such birds have been delivered by him to another person as a gift; or have been delivered by him to a post office, a common carrier, or a migratory bird preservation facility and consigned for transport by the Postal Service or a common carrier to some person other than the hunter.

HISTORY: [41 FR 31537, July 29, 1976]

§ 20.40 Gift of migratory game birds.

No person may receive, possess, or give to another, any freshly killed migratory game birds as a gift, except at the personal abodes of the donor or donee, unless such birds have a tag attached, signed by the hunter who took the birds, stating such hunter's address, the total number and species of birds and the date such birds were taken.
 
Once you shoot a limit, you are done for the day. Doesn't matter if you take them home and clean, cook, eat or freeze them. Daily limit is just that, the daily limit.

Possession limit is funky thing, especially since state and federal definitions conflict in many case.
In many states, once you clean a critter and store it at your place of permanent residence, it no longer counts towards possession limits.
But, when it comes to waterfowl, fed regs trump state. Period. And the federal rule does not make a distinction between car, camp or place of residence.
That said, unless you are under suspicion for some other serious game violation, I seriously doubt federal wardens are going to take the time to get a search warrant to check the freezer in your house to count the number of ducks and geese you have cleaned & frozen.
The time you need to be really conscious of possession limits is when you are staying in camp for more than 3 days. The possession limit on ducks is now 3 times the bag limit, so if you are in camp for 4 days and are lucky enough to shoot a limit every day the first 3 days, you better start cooking and eating ducks to stay under the possession limit or no hunting for you on day 4.
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One thing I know for sure is that no one ever exceeds their possession limit in their home freezer and we all eat duck until there is room to take more!
 
CFR is very clear on this:

§ 20.63 Species (importation) identification requirement.
No person shall import migratory game birds unless each such bird has one fully feathered wing attached, and such wing must remain attached while being transported between the port of entry and the personal abode of the possessor or between the port of entry and a migratory bird preservation facility.


So, if you have your ducks and geese made into sausage/jerky in Canada or Mexico, you better eat them on the way, cause if you cross into the US, you are technically in violation.
And crossing the border with meat products, especially dried meats, may actually be in violation of USDA regs: https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/944/~/bringing-meat,-poultry-or-pork%2Fswine-products-into-the-u.s.
And you have to declare all food products and produce them for inspection. If you have a bunch of sausage without labels or labeled "Wild Duck Sausage", or worse yet, no labels at all, I foresee trouble.
 
The short and sweet answer for many popular products (from countries other than those mentioned on the APHIS site) is as follows:
  • Cured Bacon - Unless it is from Canada or two specifically approved (see link) producers allowed to sell certified pork products in duty free shops in Dublin and Shannon Airports , no.
  • Sausage - No
  • Salami and other cured deli products - Some
  • Prosciutto - No
  • Pate - If cooked and in a hermetically sealed container, maybe. Otherwise - no.
  • Fois Gras - If cooked and in a hermetically sealed container, maybe. Otherwise, no.
  • Parma, Iberian or Serrano hams - Call 301-851-3300 or toll-free at 877-770-5990. Only certain plants are certified exporters, and the hams must be accompanied by certificates and seals.
  • Bouillon Cubes and Dry Soup Mixes - Beef or other ruminant-based (goat, sheep, etc.) bouillon products are not admissible if from a BSE (Mad Cow) country - (Basically, none from Europe or European territories such as Martinique or British Virgin Islands). No poultry-based bouillon from Asia, which has Highly Pathogenic Avian influenza.
For specific meat products not mentioned above, please reference APHIS's Animal Product Manual.
 
The short and sweet answer for many popular products (from countries other than those mentioned on the APHIS site) is as follows:
  • Cured Bacon - Unless it is from Canada or two specifically approved (see link) producers allowed to sell certified pork products in duty free shops in Dublin and Shannon Airports , no.
  • Sausage - No
  • Salami and other cured deli products - Some
  • Prosciutto - No
  • Pate - If cooked and in a hermetically sealed container, maybe. Otherwise - no.
  • Fois Gras - If cooked and in a hermetically sealed container, maybe. Otherwise, no.
  • Parma, Iberian or Serrano hams - Call 301-851-3300 or toll-free at 877-770-5990. Only certain plants are certified exporters, and the hams must be accompanied by certificates and seals.
  • Bouillon Cubes and Dry Soup Mixes - Beef or other ruminant-based (goat, sheep, etc.) bouillon products are not admissible if from a BSE (Mad Cow) country - (Basically, none from Europe or European territories such as Martinique or British Virgin Islands). No poultry-based bouillon from Asia, which has Highly Pathogenic Avian influenza.
For specific meat products not mentioned above, please reference APHIS's Animal Product Manual.
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As far as non-waterfowl cured sausage, my experience is that it is up to individual agent determination. I've called both the US and Canadian and crossed through both US and CA several times by land (Jen has too by plane), declaring and have been fine taking cured dried homemade sausage - Landjaegers and sopressata. When I talked on the phone they said it is up to the agent that looks at it and the worst they would do is throw it out.
 
agent that looks at it and the worst they would do is throw it out.


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Which would suck if you paid good money for it!

The few times I have travelled internationally, I just simply haven't bothered taking a chance with any meat products. Just lots of dry goods & sweets!
 
You also can NOT shoot a limit in one state and then go to another and shoot ducks. I live on the border of Iowa/illinois and know people that have been popped for this.
 
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