Dear friends, some very important news regarding USFWS Regs and the Scaup Limit

Okay now, Lets all take a deep breath.

Here are some of my observations from a true hunting only point of view.
Two years ago I watched literally clouds of bluebills on the lower Columbia that didn't leave all season.
This past season on the mid Columbia bluebills actually became pests on certain hunts. Easy 4 bird limits for even large p[arties in 1-2 hours. Limit shoots almost every day we wanted.
At least 50% or more of the birds coming into our spread were hens.
More than 50% of the birds I cleaned were underweight, as evidenced by NO fat, prominate breast bones and actually feeling light in hand compared to previous season.

Over population? Naw.
Lucky concentration for me? Maybe.

I do feel that what will be will be as far as what the rule makers decide. The USFWS has shown a poor record for listening to concerned citizens in my experience.
 
Over the past 10 years I've noticed a nearly complete lack of bluebills in my neck of the woods. By far and away, we see more ringnecks here and amazingly, I've seen more cans and redheads the past few years come through. When I was a kid if you saw one redhead or can for every 100 bluebills it was amazing. Of course, this means nothing other than I don't see them much anymore here.

Now, over on the big lake on Mark's stomping grounds they're more plentiful. I noticed some large flocks offshore this past season near the Indiana/Michigan border. I'm sure it has everything to do with the proliferation of zebra mussels and furthermore I'm sure this is a large part of the problem scaup are having(bioaccumulation of contaminants). That article a couple years ago in Wildfowl had an interesting theory as well....that the proliferation of dumpster chickens(gulls)have had an impact on recruitment in the northern boreal and northern prairies.

When I hunted with Rick Kyte on the Misissippi I was sickened by the sight of dead or dying lessers. I shot a couple that were clearly on their last legs(which is probably why they damn near knocked my hat off coming in). Apparently, there is a nematode that is hitting them very hard in the pools up and down the Miss. If I recall correctly, the USFWS was surveying the mortality by collecting floaters. Anecdotal evidence suggests that some days they find 100 or more dead bluebills. This of course is dietary as the bluebills eat lots of mollusks including a snail that is the intermediate host for this bastard nematode that causes hemorhaging. Rick or anybody else that hunts over there could shed some light on this I'm sure.

As far as I'm concerned....from a management perspective, at this point it would be be adviseable to be very cautious with the scaup. Obviously there is more to come on this front but to me anytime there are suggestions of populations dynamics that have drastically changed in a relatively short period of time a flag goes up. This flag has been flappin' in the wind for years and we still don't have the answers. Being "proactive" makes quite a bit of sense to me. I guess given what I've experienced, reducing bag limits further in some segments of the flyway is sensible. Of course, like Bret-where I live I'd be lucky to limit out on bluebills anyway so I don't "feel the heat" so to speak. Only 30 miles away they may feel entirely different...one smallish inland lake in Lake County, Indiana comes to mind...lots of bills migrate through and I'm sure it'd put a big dent in their bag.

Places like Lake Winnebago, Lake St Clair, the pools of the Miss, the Columbia etc.....perhaps they should maintain more liberal harvest guidelines. If for nothing else, to maintain revenues from the hunters that concentrate on scaup in those areas. Sadly, I highly doubt any harvest restrictions will have a notable impact on the issue but if that's what management calls for so be it. A bandage, maybe. Probably.
 
let me know if any kind of work is needed! I am big supporter and would be glade to donate any of my work paintings or decoys towards the research of scaup. Just let me know.

Michael R Braun
856-229-1800
 
Jay,

I was talking to one of our local DNR biologists about this the other day. Like you, I had been assuming that the "sickly" scaup that I was shooting occasionally were infected with the trematodes that are concentrated in Lake Onalaska. But he told me that the infected waterfowl usually die within 24 hours, which is not enough time to deplete their body fat. So those weak birds are probably flying into the area in a weakened conditioned.

Rick
 
Ya know Rick, come to think of it I believe we discussed that and to your credit the general consensus was that they die very quickly. I guess it's safe to assume that those skinny birds were ravaged from migration but man, I've never seen keels sticking out like that. We're talking over half of the normal muscle mass gone. Not good. Maybe it was lead poisoning. I'm sure that is common on those flats too.
 
however seem more interested in a verbal sword fight then thinking of constructive ways to get some one with a larger say in things to listen to the hunting public and make decisions based on the publics opinions. maybe its different for a federally managed game animal then it is for a state managed animal but here in Vermont a board of 14 members selected by the governor hold public meetings to offer a say to the hunting community in changes to the management of our whitetail herd.
Click to expand...

First, YES, it's completely different than your local whitetail herd. They don't migrate south for the winter.

Managing wildlife through public opinion is what closes seasons through ballot initiative. Managing wildlife should remain the responsibility of the wildlife scientists that study those animals.

That said, if the public is misinformed as to the status of the wildlife, their skewed opinion will pressure the politicians to act in ways that are not always in the best interests of the animals.

That said, when people are misguided into believing that populations are falling or are in dire straits (ie- bluebills. Much like global warming, there's no consensus among researchers), they act in irrational ways that have no basis in science. The simple argument is: you can't use science when it proves your hypothesis and then discard the same science when it doesn't.

The scientists that are recommending a bag of 1 scaup per day "because we have no experience with a one bird bag," are also assuming the mean carrying capacity of 8.2 M birds and that scaup harvest rates and BPOP are negatively correlated when they've been proven to NOT be (in addition to several other invalid assumptions).
 
Dear friends,

A special thank you to Eric Patterson for posting Rob Olson's letter. And a special thank you to all who have contributed to this thread. Public comment on the subject closed awhile back, but Delta Waterfowl and other concerned agencies will be sitting down with the USFWS in July, to discuss this topic further. Delta is very interested in what your feelings are on this subject, no matter what your position is. I encourage you to keep this dialogue open, and contribute.

Dear Brett,

No worries, sir. Absolutely no offense was taken. Thanks for your contribution to the subject. Please continue to share your views.

God Bless All,

Mark
 
well we have a biologist here in vt that pushes every year to stop shooting black ducks all together at the annual meetings in august to set the seasons and what not. we already have a one blackduck a day limit and the stupid things are everywhere. some days blacks are the only big duck that will come to the decoys. maybe he dosent study them but it sure seems like he knows what hes talking about. were it left to him we wouldnt shoot any blacks and from hunting and doing brood counts and fall banding on natives with the local wildlife refuge i see no reason why we cant shoot 2 a day.

now being a veteran of only five duck seasons im not as well experience educated as the majority of the folks on this site, and i probably dont read as much of my duck hunting publications as i should. with that said....
if any of you guys are waterfowl biologists let me know what type of schooling it takes to be one and maybe the salary of a wf biologist. im only 21 and can make a schooling/career change anytime. id like to think i can make a difference and id like to see for myself what all this discussion and passionate arguments are all about. because frankly i dont trust the guys up here.

thanks eddie
 
Hi Ed,

If you are seriously interested, I'd talk to Bill Crenshaw, I bet he'd give you some good career advice.

Also check with the wildlife biology program at UVM. My best friend is a wildlife biologist - he went to UVM and studied wildlife biology, then went on and got a masters at a SUNY school.

You might have to relocate if you decide you want a career in wildlife biology. State Fish and Wildlife jobs in VT are pretty scarce these days.

Charlie
 
Ed, one thing you might want to consider is to start doing some field work right away. If you go to the Delta website and look throught he careers section you can see that there are lots of summer jobs...DU also has some listed. It'll be tough for you to get in because there will be tons of wildlife students applying but you may be able to talk yourself in based on what you've said. I have a bio degree and frankly most of the "good" jobs aren't going to be a reality unless you have at least a masters. If you don't go that extra mile it'll be tough for you to rise above the rest at the entry level positions. Not becuase you aren't capable of it, but because there are so many masters/Phd's coming in above you for those postions.

If it's a passion and you're up to the challenge I highly encourage you to try. Getting knee deep in the sciences is fun but it is a lot of work(organic chem drove me to drink heavily for 2.5 semesters, which ain't such a bad thing I guess).
 
Ed FYI






Job Number: 11760 (Classification: Temporary/Seasonal Positions) Title: Black Duck Research Assistants (2) Agency: CT DEP Location: Connecticut Job Description: Two positions are available to assist with a wintering black duck research project. The project is looking at habitat use versus habitat availability of wintering black ducks.

Salary:
$10-$12/hour depending upon experience. No housing is available, but a field vehicle will be provided. Qualifications: Responsibilities:



1. Assist with baiting and capture of black ducks

2. Conduct radio telemetry of black ducks

3. Conduct time budget surveys of waterfowl

4. Collect core samples from various wintering habitats

5. Collect hunter harvested waterfowl

6. Data entry and basic statistical analyses

Salary: $10-$12/hour Last Date to apply: October 15, 2007 Contact: Min T. Huang
E-mail: Min.huang@po.state.ct.us (Preferred)
Phone: 860-642-7239
 
thanks for the info and advice guys, it is a passion of mine, ive been a volunteer at the missisquoi national wildlife refuge here in swanton vt for a few years now and absolutely love brood counting and leg banding and being a duck stamp painter and decoy carver the folks that know me say im a little duck crazy maybe more then most.

thanks for the uvm idea charlie i'll def. look into that, currently im trying to finish a graphic desgin assc. degree at ccv but im looking at spring and summer semis next year to close on that which gives me some time to save for the next endeavor.

btw chrensaw is the guy i was talking about that hates the shooting of black ducks. and hes harder to catch on the phone then a wild holstein in a hayfield. i tryed picking up the vermont state duck stamp contract but he called me back like a month later and said i was to late.

thanks again eddie
 
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