Delving into the world of Decoy Carving

Steve Sanford said:
RL~


Hmmmm..... I use Tung Oil all the time on furniture. I had never heard of marine applications for it.



I will assign the R&D staff here at Pencil Brook Boatworks to investigate and report results to me....


All the best,


SJS
Click to expand...

Steve

Tung and mixed with turpentine is a great penetrant and water sealant for wood and best of all it doesn't affect paint or varnish put over the top. I have one gallon of Val-Oil left and when it is gone tung oil will be my go-to sealant.

Eric
 
Good morning, Kyle~


Two things:


1. I just discovered that my link to the Foamer tutorial sent you to the wrong spot. I have fixed it (I think) in my original post. Here it is again:


https://stevenjaysanford.com/foamer-decoy-tutorial-a-black-and-a-mallard/






2. If you do begin with a foamer, it occurs to me that the head (and neck!) will need solid support between the base of the neck (where it joins the body) and the bottom board. As others do with canvas birds, a wooden block in this area will prevent compression in the foam body.



Hope this helps!


SJS



 
Steve Sanford said:
Good morning, Kyle~


Two things:



https://stevenjaysanford.com/foamer-decoy-tutorial-a-black-and-a-mallard/






2. If you do begin with a foamer, it occurs to me that the head (and neck!) will need solid support between the base of the neck (where it joins the body) and the bottom board. As others do with canvas birds, a wooden block in this area will prevent compression in the foam body.



Hope this helps!


SJS
Click to expand...


I have had good luck with pillar bedding oversized decoys with high heads made from both black cork (quite a few and used hard) and foam (just a few). My process requires a bottom board. I carve body and head normally and before adding the head. I use a 1 1/4 inch forstner bit drill straight down from head shelf to bottom board. Cut a dowel slightly short to get some compression of the body (eight or quarter inch). You need a lot of good glue to get everything to bond, top bottom and sides of pillar. A screw or two up through the bottom board, pillar and neck gives a very strong junction.

With a foam swan, I?d source the thickest dowel I could.
 
Last edited:
Tod & Kyle~


Neat solution!


Got me thinking about another approach - making full "backbone" of body and head - and then layering the foam (or Balsa) on edge. I would use 1/4-inch AC plywood - with a bit of White Pine for cleats and keel.









View attachment Backbone dwg - SJS.jpg







Here is view from front. The foam right against the backbone could be notched for the cleats. And, it could be sawn out right to the finish profile.


View attachment Tundra Swan - Sections.jpg





I would still wrap the body with burlap + tile mastic - but the head and neck could be coated with epoxy + fine sawdust.


Wish we had "Whistling Swans" hereabouts.....


SJS




 

Steve,

I have made various decoys with the pattern that you posted, for water and field/shore (no bottom board required) use.

Bottom board, and spine, Pine or Cedar, head Sugar Pine

Sides are cork, either tan, or dark.

Balsa can also be used.


You would never think it, but covering with Linen really adds to the durability and very little added weight. Some old decoys, wood and cork, were covered with linen.


NEVER a plywood bottom board, as that is a huge NO-NO, learned from making wire canvas decoys.

Sooner or later, all plywood fails with continued water, freezing, thawing and drying use.


These Brant and the linen covered Old Squaw (decoy on the left) are made in the fashion of your drawing, and are just a few examples of the decoys I have made of this construction.

I get very bored making the same style decoys over and over, but that's just me.[;)]






View attachment P1240004.JPGView attachment Brant in catalog.jpg
 
Vince~


I'd like to hear more about your rejection of plywood for bottom boards. I can understand where they might not hold up with canvas birds - because of the many perforations from the tacks or the staples. I have not used it often - and cannot cite long years of service - but I do think that plywood well-sealed with epoxy is a durable material.


View attachment Drake Oldsquaw Foamer.jpg



You can see here how the edge is sealed with epoxy. I used epoxy to fasten the foam to the plywood and also sealed the lower face of the plywood, too. I would compare it with all of the epoxy-encapsulated plywood boats in use.


View attachment Oldsquaw Foamers - ready for paint - small.jpg



Both the ballast and the screw eye are bedded in caulk to prevent moisture intrusion.


View attachment Oldsquaw Ballast.jpg



We have all seen plenty of tail boards - both plywood and Masonite - that erode and delaminate when no longer protected from moisture. The penetrating aspect of epoxy both seals and toughens, in my experience.



Your thoughts?


BTW: I have seen the old linen-covered Herter's in catalogs - but never in the flesh. Makes sense that linen would provide a nice stable base for paint.


All the best,



SJS







 

Steve,

Most decoy makers/carvers that use plywood, do not go through the applications of epoxy, and extensive work you do, to ensure the plywood edge is well sealed.

Your a master craftsmen.

Many decoy makers/carvers, especially new untrained, or unmentored are not in your class, or will be.


I agree, tacks (I do not use staples) do compromise plywood.

That said canvas decoys of all types, for the most part are made as simple, and less costly as possible.

Same goes for some wooden decoys, hollowed, and using a plywood bottom board. The edge fails.


As for use on boats. You are much more experienced in that field than I.

I did spend many, many hours and days, at my good friends boatworks. Man o Man did I ever learn a lot !

He showed me, and taught me what shoddy workmanship is and looks like, in almost all repairs, and in some cases directly from the factory on Lymans, Chris-Craft, and other wooden vessels.

It was at his shop that I learned to use Smiths, and West System, as his repairs are first rate, like yours.


Back to plywood used in decoys.

I have seen more failures than success.

Especially with canvas decoys, to the point that many old ones are filled with spray foam flotation, to keep them afloat. This I witnessed in VA and NC while gunning.


Therefore in almost all cases a pine, cedar, or mahogany bottom board (that do not require epoxy edge sealing) is a much simpler, less labor, and cost effective IMO.


My first attempts at canvas decoys in the early 1980's, had marine grade plywood bottom boards.

Edges sealed with Kilz & paint, not epoxy.

They worked just fine for 12 - 17 + years of hard use. Now they all have failed, and need the canvas taken off ,and edges epoxied.

Canvas, and all other decoys, made at the same time, WITHOUT plywood, and having solid bottom boards still work just fine.


Unlike you, I dislike extensive repairing, and repainting old and unseaworthy decoys. It's a fault I'd say.

I make new ones, and the ones that have failed, for the most part get set aside. Some DO get the repairs that they deserve.

Depending on what I'm hunting, my rigs are a hodge podge of many different styles of decoys that I made/carved.


So personally, I much prefer a solid wooden bottom board over plywood any day.


I will post some photos of canvas decoys with spines like your pattern. With cork sided heads, made in 1986 & 1987, with solid bottom boards, that are still in service.

Gotta wait until Mary Lee gets home to transfer photos.


Best regards
Vince
 

Steve,

Have no fear.

Me thinks Kyle is a very determined and strong human being.



Any who here are the photo's.

The drake Can, with tack eyes is from 1986, in OP, and still working just fine.

The drake Golden Eye / King Diver is from 1987, with glass eyes, in OP, and still working just fine.

Photos show the center board and cork lamination of the head with West System Epoxy, on both decoys.


The close up of the canvas, of the GE shows that a base of FRENCH gesso, and not made in China gesso, makes a huge difference.

Even with it's age it still repels water just fine, and holds paint very well.


I hope that this helps anyone who has interest.

VP





View attachment P2250018.JPGView attachment P2250019.JPGView attachment P2250020.JPGView attachment P2250021.JPGView attachment P2250022.JPGView attachment P2250024 - Copy.JPGView attachment P2250024.JPG
 
I used to use 3/4" exterior plywood for bottom board with 4" black cork on top when I made 5" (4-3/4" actual) Al McCormick humpback blackducks. At that time I used spar varnish as sealer and it did allow moisture to penetrate after some wear and tear. I went to solid 1" white pine which was more durable. I never tried epoxy. I do think that epoxy would make it a lot tougher to bruise the sealer coat. Going to try it on some 5" brant for next years rig.

Joe
 
Vince Pagliaroli said:
NEVER a plywood bottom board, as that is a huge NO-NO, learned from making wire canvas decoys.
Click to expand...

Love 1/4 plywood for bottom boards on cork decoys. They hold up great for me.

There are even people that make boats out of plywood.
 
tod osier said:
Vince Pagliaroli said:
NEVER a plywood bottom board, as that is a huge NO-NO, learned from making wire canvas decoys.
Click to expand...

Love 1/4 plywood for bottom boards on cork decoys. They hold up great for me.

There are even people that make boats out of plywood.
Click to expand...


Yes this I know.

My sneakbox was made from plywood, covered with fiberglass, and failed after 12 years...

If I ever have another, it will be from solid planks, not plywood of any kind.

If yer gonna take the time to do it, it just makes more sense to me.

To each their own.
 
RL

My go-to finish is Waterlox which is a tung oil blend with varnish of unknown quantities. It is a durable wipe-on finish that can be recoated anytime down the road by simply re-applying over the top. No stripping or sanding required. They call it a "repairable" finish. It is expensive but really brings out he subtleties in wood grain. For simple water proofing just about any basic tung oil, e.g. Minwax or Watco, works fine. Honestly, I am babying my last gallon of Val-Oil for treating wood for outdoor use. When it is gone I'll go to a 50/50 mix of tung oil and turpentine, which might be pretty close to what Val-oil is anyway. Hope this helps.

Eric
 
Last edited:
Have you ever applied it over pickled Oak stain on red oak. I have a kitchen and dining room floor refinishing project looming this summer. With one fake knee, I am not looking forward to this effort...
 
I have not. I would assume you have some protective coating on the floor presently so that will have to be sanded off. A friend used Waterlox when he refinished his wood floors and after the sanding and dusting was done he applied it with a mop-like tool and said it was very easy to put on and maintain. There are plenty of other hardwood finishes out there as well. Some will open your sinus cavities like nobody's business.
 
We moved here six dogs ago...floor has enough traffic scratches that I will have to take all of it back to bare oak and then re-apply the stain and reseal. Yeah, there is another point for Waterlox, Karen is an asthmatic. She even reacts to my Goldens Heavy Matte applications on decoys if she is standing close to my paint bench when it is first applied. All my oil painting is done in the garage or outside.
 
Eric~


Ditto for Water-Lox. I have to mail order it now - but it's worth the extra wait and cost. I use it on furniture.


All the best,


SJS

 
Steve Sanford said:
Eric~


Ditto for Water-Lox. I have to mail order it now - but it's worth the extra wait and cost. I use it on furniture.


All the best,


SJS
Click to expand...

So I was at this old hardware store near me a few years back and noticed on the back of the shelf were about a dozen quart cans marked $8 each. Obviously folks that shopped there weren't familiar with it but I was and knew it was about $25 per quart plus shipping. I cleared the shelf!

Eric
 
RLLigman said:
We moved here six dogs ago...floor has enough traffic scratches that I will have to take all of it back to bare oak and then re-apply the stain and reseal. Yeah, there is another point for Waterlox, Karen is an asthmatic. She even reacts to my Goldens Heavy Matte applications on decoys if she is standing close to my paint bench when it is first applied. All my oil painting is done in the garage or outside.
Click to expand...

Dog traffic would be a good argument for Waterlox since it is easily re-coated with minimal prep. Scratches can be removed without sanding back down to bare wood. BTW, It does have some odor just not as strong as some other products I've been around.

Eric
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top