Depressing news for ducks.

the most recent political discussion?

This is a CNN report and clearly CNN is a bunch of lying, Bush hating, anti-America, gun hating, illegal alien loving,anti-big business, left wing, tutu wearing socialist "fags" who can't be trusted to tell the truth.....

Can you please pull the FOXX news report on this so that we can see the TRUTH about this since they are clearly the only news agency in the World that can be trusted to tell the truth?

THANKS and for the first time ever in my personal history on the internet ;-)
 
Stupid damn ducks for not knowing that the only open water around, the same open water in areas where they have been stopping on migration for millions of years, was now toxic.......

Good to see you placing the blame firmly where it belongs...on the dumb damned animals that aren't smart enough to know better instead of the upright, stalwart guardians of the environment who aren't following the rules, either in preventing or reporting......

Steve
 
OK it is bad but it is not a "waterfowl disaster" as the story says. 500 birds does not a disaster make. I'm sure next it will be a crisis.
I'm not saying this company doesn't need to do better and should have better ways to keep birds off of their ponds. I'm saying that this will be used to trash an oil producer, fines will be payed and a lot of money will be spent trying to save those few ducks they can get out of the sludge. In the end I bet nothing will really be done to actually help waterfowl in that area in the long run. If they do get fined, and they probably should, the money should go into real world help for waterfowl but I doubt it.

Tim
 
DING DING DING.....Didn't have the energy to say it.

Fines will be wasted and high gas prices will result.

Sorry folks, I'm fed up with the green weenies who are changing my lifestyle with over regulation.

-D
 
around Waterfowl? and therefore isn't part of your ability to continue to enjoy that "lifestyle" tied to the idiots that think that the can ignore such simple safeguards as "noise cannons"?

So Dave, as the oil sand mining industry blossoms, in the very heartland of the areas that produce so many of the ducks that you enjoy pursuing what you're saying is "screw them for their stupidity in not knowing where its safe to land" and "screw the GREEN WIENIES" who would make sure that safeguards are in place so that you can continue to enjoy what has appeared in the past to be a very important to you.....

Good for you though...stick to your guns and the apparant belief that anything that Canada does as far as oil production goes is going to lower what it costs you to operate a vehincle....and good for you for caring more about your "lifestyle" than the health of an environment that contributes to that lifestyle...just be mindful that as duck populations are impacted by the people that won't follow simple rules you'll need less gas to travel to duck hunt because there will be fewer and fewer ducks to pursue and you'll ultimately just "give up" out of frustration and join the ranks of the whiners who complain about "where have all the ducks gone".....and that that will be an alteration of a lifestyle that I doubt you'll appreciate....

Tim's right that this 500 ducks means nothing in the grand scheme of things....but if you think that its "just" these 500 ducks or that the oil sand mining industry will either install, or follow, guidelines to safeguard the environment that should be mindful of then you are sadly mistaken.....

Steve
 
Explain to me how $987,000 is a suitable fine for this violation. How will this fine solve the problem?

Does the Canadian DOE require the cannons? Does someone make sure they are in place?

How many ducks try and land on these ponds every year?

This article doesn't tell me enough to just say HOLD IT...Close these places, save the ducks.

You want me to change my mind, show me facts.

Global Warming is a joke
Ethanol is an absolute swing and miss
Entire forests are dying and burning throughout the west for an owl

GREEN WEENIES.

I like being realistic Steve and don't think these waste ponds will be the end to ducks.

-D
 
Here is an AP article on foxnews.com...I recall seeing this reported on TV as well http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Nov23/0,4670,BaySpillOiledDucks,00.html
;o)

That is just bullshit that they don't do something more effective to prevent birds etc from entering those ponds. And though it's only 500 birds I highly doubt that this problem is limited to this incident and only 500 birds as Steve alluded to.

I've seen similar ponds in Michigan...some are from oil extraction and others are tailing ponds from iron ore mining. There is one in particular that I used to check out once or twice a year during bird season. I was always amazed that NOTHING alive was anywhere near the place. I never saw any waterfowl in it or near it but it was a heinous orange color so I always suspected that a bird that needed a place to rest at night would land there but during the day they'd avoid it. I wasn't supposed to be there either but I knew a "back way" to get in that just so happened to have a one helluva a grouse spot on the way in. Frankly, I don't know if there anything truly "wrong" with what I was seeing but it sure didn't look right. If it's just minerals then I doubt that any major harm could be done to a flock of geese that landed on it. You won't find it on a map but you can see it on the satellite.

Check this out...the white line running from the NW to the SE is 3 miles long for scale. This is one big pit of shit water my friends.
GoogleEarth_Image.jpg

 
or wa the fact that it said CNN on it make it too dispicalbe for you to bother with?

The "offenders" ADMITTED that they were required to have cannons out but used the "recent snow storm" as an excuse for not deploying them....and then to hide the fact that they were too stupid to follow the rules they failed to report the incident......so it becomes as much the failure to report the problem as it is the actual problem that result in the large "potential" fine......rather like its your willingness to take the blame for something that you never did that kept you out of Canada this past season.....Punishment outside the "reasonable"......perhaps but maybe thats what it takes to make people adhere to the rules that they AGREED TO to obtain the permits to operate......

I won't argue that the fine is out of proportion to the number of ducks that will die, and we all know they will ALL die, but this isn't about the ducks as much as it is teaching the "business" that when they agree to the rules they have to follow the rules........

No sense in arguing the validity of "global warming"...I believe I recall your "thoughts" on that on the fairly recent thread on that and if not your last comments leave little doubt as to how you feel there.....

How many ducks land in these ponds.....Don't know....doesn't matter.....its about the RULES that were agreed to to operate in that environment...one duck, 500 ducks, 5 million ducks the fact remains AGREED UPON rules were in place...that rule was violated....your solution to that would be waht? HEY...oil people don't do that again? Do you really think that would work.....

GREEN WEENIES!!!! I love it....are you a DU or Delta supporter? If you are then you need to call for a refund because those guys were RIGHT THERE when it came to regulation on operation of oil shale extraction......GREEN WEENIES!!!! Buwhahahahahahah who the hell do you think it was that kept the commercial fishermen from stripping the ocean of the bottom, and bill, fish, that you just recently were thrilled to catch......GREEN WEENIES....without them you'd be lucky to catch a GaffTop Catfish off a oil covered quay on a dead damned river.....you might not like it but every success for them is a success that is built on, or contributes to, the "hunting" oriented groups that you favor over them......

Agree on Ethanol and have said same multiple times here before...interestingly the GREEN WEENIES you so despise mostly feel the same way....

And to close if you think an Owl is the reason for forest burning in the West then you now little, very little, about the REALITY of Western logging...you might want to spend some time in the actual industry, talk to the Forest Managers, to the mills, before you blame the woes of the Western forest solely on an Owl.....

Steve
 
Steve,
I understand what you are saying but I don't think this is about waterfowl and that is the problem for me. The only reason that this is being covered is because big oil has to be evil.

A few years ago there was a spill of some sort that killed a bunch of Ruddies on the east coast. Instead of using fines to 'punish' the company or to fund more bureaucrats the company was made to clean up the spill site and then restore nesting habitat for Ruddies in the upper plains. That does a lot more good then cleaning up those ducks that they fish out of the sludge in this 'disaster'. Many people who read that article will think those 500 is a horrible disaster, those 500. Those same people who think we are going to grow our own fuel while vast amounts of land is leaving CRP hurting the environment even more. Those same people who have not modified any habits other then buying hybrids that don't get any better gas mileage, but at least now they can drive in the car pool lane.

I didn't say it wasn't bad just not a disaster. I hate when everything is labeled a disaster or a crisis. And I don't think anything done for oil is OK. I'm all for tough laws making this kind of thing non-existent or at least very rare and then allow companies to actually do business inside those laws. I trust Canada, Mexico and our own country much more then I do China, Russia, Cuba, Venezuela and anyone in the middle east.

Tim
 
For my self I would have made the fine a little bigger. Nothing attracts the attention of a corporation like some thing that hurts the bottom line. Do I feel sorry for the corp. Nope They knew what they were doing. Call me a hard ass. Not a greenie.

A kid robs a gas station he gets twenty years.
A CEO steals Millions, he gets a slap on the wrist.
 
as me "thinking" that this was a "disaster" then you read something that wasn't meant to be there.....no qeustion 500 ducks is NOTHING....flatulance in a hurricane...inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.....we on the same page here?

My comments were in regards to Dave's comments of "dumb ducks", (as if they should KNOW that they shouldn't land in available water), to his comments that "the DAMN GREENIES were affecting his life style", never mind the fact that the GREENIES he supports, DU, Delta, etc. are part of the regulatory process that insure that the "lifestyle" that he so adores will remain available to him, and that this is about an INDUSTRY blatantly ignoring the processes that they have agreed to to secure the rights to operate.....

All of that is WAY greater than the 500 birds that died, or will die, and YES I agree with you, that those birds are already dead and they'd be better served by having someone shoot them between dives....I'd also agree that instead of fines, which will be, in all likelihood, no different than the unpaid EXXON VALDEZ fine, as in UNPAID FOREVER AND A DAY due to the legal appeals process, would be far better levied in a more substantive manner like providing "safe" habitat to replace that lost in the in the mining process......

So, in the end, to me this is about RULES that are agreed to prior to start up, and then ignored, and then hidden, and what should be done to prevent it from happening again, than it is the 500 ducks that are involved, (even while admitting that we all know there are more than that and that this isn't the only "pond" this happens, or will happen, in).....

Steve
 
Not to add insult to injury...butttt...sounds like there is still no Farm Bill and I think I heard that the CRP component stands to take a significant hit with the new value of recovering more tillage acreage in light of grain prices and the biofuel debacle (takes arable land out of food production, devalues the importance of conservation management and still tons of petroleum product, like running tractors, to produce for dubious returns)...maybe someone better informed has some input?

Man this is depressing, I can hardly wait to catch some Mercury laden tuna this summer!

PG
 
The fine will just be ultimately passed on to the consumer and the cash will go into the government coffers for who knows what..probably subsidizing the oil company. First thought that came to my mind was , why aren't they shooting the suffering birds?
 
Steve I really don't think we are that far apart in our thinking, maybe in scale but not in right or wrong. Like I said I'm all for having tough laws. I know some forms of drilling are dirtier then others but you have to agree that some cleaner forms are being held back making the dirtier less efficient oil supplies more attractive. Many of the same people who complain about dirty sources also oppose cleaner drilling. We need oil and that isn't going to change any time soon but this will be used by those who try to stop not change the industry.

btw I didn't see the stupid ducks post when I first responded. While I don't think ducks are smart that is not their problem and we need to take that into account when we use our brains. I'm not going to say "this is just the price of oil" and just accept it. I'm all for them being held feet to the fire, I just want it to help what it hurts and much like class action lawsuits it seldom does.

Tim
 
There's a BIG difference between environmentalists and conservasionists. One group naive, rash, and nonsensical and the other practical and measured. Guess which shoe fits? If environmentalists would quit blocking new drilling from practically everywhere there's oil, and opposing new refinery construction, then maybe Canadians wouldn't find it profitable to try to suck oil from sand. Just a thought....regulate the things that make sense for our way of life in a way that makes sense for the animals as well, and then maybe we don't see this stuff (that makes no sense at all) happening to 500 ducks....or more. Environmental activism causes more problems than it ever solves, IMO...and conservation movements generally help the animals AND the people involved.:)
 
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