Depth Finder and Navigation

Neal Haarberg

Neal Haarberg

Active member
As the season has come to a close I am thinking of all the work that needs to be done to me boat which I built 19 years ago. There is some maintenance where the fiberglass on the gunnells has worn and some other spots that need some love. I was also thinking as I motored out into the darkness on saturday holding my phone in one hand to navigate the marsh that It may be time to replace my depth finder. I currently have an old humminbird piranha that is about 15 years old. No color just an old LED display. Work great for giving depth and temp which all I have ever really wanted. However fish finders have come a long way in the past 15 years. When I do use my boat for fishing I don't use the fish finder other than water temp so I am not concerned with all of the new exciting ways to see everything under water.

What I do want is navigation capabilities so I can keep both hands free and not use my phone. Lay down tracks to navigate safely in the dark. I have been looking at and will most likely get the Garmin Echomap UHD2. Still deciding on the 5" or 7". Due to space constraints this is as big as I can go and would not want ot go bigger even if i could. I like this one because it does NOT have a touch screen. Buttons are good for when you are wearing gloves. Looking for opinions on Lowrance and Humminbird in case there is something I am missing.
 
My advise is:
1. Get the largest screen size you can fit in your boat. Especially if you want to run a split screen with sonar and a map.
2. Get one with a basemap or capable of loading a basemap. I've run one without a base map for years and while better than no GPS, having a basemap is so much nicer.
 
Garmin comes with Basemap which is mandatory for me. I like the idea of not having to pay additional for it or it being a subscription. I also agree on the larger screen. If not for anything else that my eyes are not as good as they used to be.... I will have to do some modifications to make the 7" screen fit but I think it will be worth it.
 
I think you will be miserably unhappy with a 5". Definitely go with the 7". If all you are wanting is depth and water temp, why such an expensive unit? I know you do not want a touch screen, but most units will run all of the functions without the use of touch screen. I can get around all my lowrance units without using the touch screen, but you will love the touch screen in the summer when not wearing gloves. If I could redo all my stuff, i would go the garmin route. they are owning the mapping world and I think their transducers are far superior these days. They have made leap and bounds better performance in their transducers and image quality over humminbird and lowrance imo, especially in the forward facing sonar world.

For what you are looking for, not sure why the lowrance eagle fishfinder wouldnt do everything you were looking for in half the price. I have a 9" in my duck boat and can navigate all of it with the buttons when running in the most frigid temps. Just for navigation purposes on that boat, track lines are easy to maintain as well.

The bass boat is a complete different animal. I have a 12" lowrance at the helm. Big enough to run mapping, side imaging and down imaging together if I want. I mainly run a small map and side scan when idling around looking for stuff to fish. Not sure about garmin, but what I like about my lowrance is I can set the side of the screens I want. So I can have 80% of the screen my side scan and then split the other 20% as mapping and down imaging all displayed on one screen. i can change the format however I want and save them as quick screens so the layout is saved so I can switch to the different screens quickly. At the bow, I have a 12" dedicated to ffs and a 9" for mapping so I can ensure im fishing near the waypoint Im fishing offshore and not floating too far off my spot.

If I could do it all over again though..... I would run all garmin stuff. Or at least dedicate my 12" screen on the bow to garmin and use their FFS and I may make that change one day. The issue I have with all this fish finder technology is its really turned to video games. I fish to enjoy nature and not stare at a screen. When competition bass stuff goes to being so good with these electronics, i lost interest. Pretty much only fish bass during prespawn and spawn now because of this. Them are the good days, when all the electronics can be turned off and you fish structure and shallow and pay attention to good ol outdoors around you. I will say though, there is nothing cooler than watching crappie eat your jig out of a brush pile, or fire up a school of white bass in 30 feet of water and get them to the point they are biting on every cast when jigging a blade bait. That was never possible without all this technology unless it was dumb luck that you ran over them. Even if the school moves just 30 yards away, I can stay on top of them and keep them eating. My best record so far is 32 white bass in 32 casts in fish that were in 27 feet of water going between a jerkbait and a blade bait. What I do really like is the intel you get as well. Used to spend a couple hours and trying different spots but never knew to change colors or alter the baits. You would be shocked how many fish nose the bait but dont eat. Start seeing that and its a pattern issue so change colors and figure out what they want. I can find the pattern about 60% quicker because of the new technology.

Its just hard to drive home realizing you stared at a screen all day and didnt pay attention to the lake or great outdoors. Ive really lost interest in fishing as much because of this. Ive kind of got to the point where I might really start focusing on how to use the technology for walleye fishing and getting good with that and filling my freezer with good eating fish. Otherwise, my boat gets used 2-3 months out of the year in the spring and then sits idle. I think FFS has ruined the game a little bit. Fish are smarter than ever and so pressured all season long in all depths of water now.
 
Neal Haarberg said:
I was also thinking as I motored out into the darkness on saturday holding my phone in one hand to navigate the marsh that It may be time to replace my depth finder.
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I have the an older Lowrance HDS-7 that I use strictly for navigation. Probably many fine working used ones to be had for peanuts.
I run a track during daylight hours of the area I wish to navigate. I will record several runs and plot a path to follow based on the tracks recorded. I can successfully stay in what channel there is and avoid all the log jams scattered along the way. It is NOT a straight path.

Frankly, I would feel extremely handicapped with out a mounted GPS display showing a track which I recorded. Darkness and fog are no match for a well proved GPS track.
I doubt brand makes much difference, all you need is GPS, along with depth and night mode screen dimming. Yes no smaller than a 7 inch screen.
.
 
William, Thank you for info. The main purpose for this is the navigation is when duck hunting and from what I understand and what I believe you are saying is Garmin is the leader in this. You can also adjust the split screen on the Garmin so the bulk of the screen is Mapping. In my boat, I do a little Fly fishing for Bass (Spawn and presawn), Tiger Muskie(WA has them planted in a few lakes) and sight fishing for Carp on the flats in the Columbia River. Like you I fish to enjoy myself and don't like the idea of staring at a screen. This may mean I don't catch as many fish but I am OK with that. I also agree that the newer technology has changed the game a lot, not just with bass but salmon as well. A friends son has become an avid bass fisherman and he doesn't understand why I keep it simple and don't want all the electronics. Some day he may get it......

Dave, Thank you for your opinion as well. I will take a look at the Eagle line a little closer. I have Tracks that I have laid out in ONX that I have been using but I want both hands free. You never know when a new log, tree, or root wad has floated down the Columbia and need to react quickly.
 
Neal Haarberg said:
William, Thank you for info. The main purpose for this is the navigation is when duck hunting and from what I understand and what I believe you are saying is Garmin is the leader in this. You can also adjust the split screen on the Garmin so the bulk of the screen is Mapping. In my boat, I do a little Fly fishing for Bass (Spawn and presawn), Tiger Muskie(WA has them planted in a few lakes) and sight fishing for Carp on the flats in the Columbia River.
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yes garmin bought out navionics. Used to be its own entity and now garmin owns that. Kind of a bummer because you used to be able to go onto navionics website and look at lakes for free. Not the case anymore, I dont think. Need a subscription. The thing I did was went on ebay and bought old navionics chips. They are not up to date, have to have a subscription to update cards, but it gives me base. So, if my navionics chip says the channel is 50 feet deep and im on the lake and go over that channel and my fish finder reads 60 feet deep, then I just know to add 10 feet of water on all the depth charting. I have the same old card for the last 6-7 years now and thats how I do it. Once you know the depth of the fish, you can really cancel out a lot of water by knowing the depths of water based on your mapping. Some simple grade school math and you can really tune in quickly. This might be an option to look at if you decide to go with a gps card for your fishfinder without paying a subscription.

Bass fishing is fun prespawn and spawn. Fish are 20 feet or less and when the spawn hits, im almost always in 5 feet or less of water. The best time of the year up until the June full moon when they transition. I loved tiger muskies back in the day. I have caught TONS of them. Had a small lake that got over run with goldfish and the game and fish released them into the lake. It was some of the most fishing I ever did. Its since been zapped and turned back to a trout lake. Theres a few that still lurk around but insanely hard to get to eat anymore. Carp are only fun to shoot with bows lol. Then cut em up and run up the river and fish for big catfish over night.
Neal Haarberg said:
Like you I fish to enjoy myself and don't like the idea of staring at a screen. This may mean I don't catch as many fish but I am OK with that. I also agree that the newer technology has changed the game a lot, not just with bass but salmon as well. A friends son has become an avid bass fisherman and he doesn't understand why I keep it simple and don't want all the electronics. Some day he may get it......
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Young kids have really took to bass fishing because of the electronics. They are getting damn good at it too. But in a way it takes all the skill out of fishing. There are guys who literally only cast a line out when they see something on their screen. No more fishing off instinct, which is why BASS and MLF have gone to set periods when you can use the technology. Starting to bring back that instinct fishing again. On the lower level tournaments, this doesnt exist because of lack of officiating, so guys are really good with it. Its why we are seeing a major discrepancy with guys who fish and qualify for these pro tournaments and then getting blown out of the water. They lack that instinct fishing that the pros still have.
Neal Haarberg said:
Dave, Thank you for your opinion as well. I will take a look at the Eagle line a little closer. I have Tracks that I have laid out in ONX that I have been using but I want both hands free. You never know when a new log, tree, or root wad has floated down the Columbia and need to react quickly.
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I think you've already made up your mind to go another way, but if you want navigation without a depth sounder, you could also download a GPS mapping app to your phone, and mount it on a cup phone or something similar. It allows you to lay down tracks as you go, and even to lay down a route in advance and follow it. I've used GAIAGPS, largely because they had a great online layer of NOAA marine charts in addition to USGS maps and satellite/aerial. Unfortunately the new marine chart layer available from NOAA--ENC charts--has much less resolution on shallow water structure than the old layer based off their paper charts did. Works for me--and even better in the woods than in the boat. But even with a secure mount for the phone, screen size is limited. https://www.weathertech.com/cupfone...cEx7HyQSfIiOjVsaPohd8X0Nb0ljPVKYaAqoJEALw_wcB
 
Have GPS on my Depth finder. Problem i,ve found is the windy river I hunt the track would take you right thru the woods on the pointed corners. Found this out in daytime use thankfully. Works good for crossing bays though.
 
roy brewington said:
Have GPS on my Depth finder. Problem i,ve found is the windy river I hunt the track would take you right thru the woods on the pointed corners. Found this out in daytime use thankfully. Works good for crossing bays though.
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Roy,
Then you either have very poor GPS reception or a very poor processor in your unit. I experienced very poor same track recordings like you described many many years ago. I could drive down a narrow road and leave a track, later the same day return down that same road, yet the tracks would not overlap.
Any unit new within 8 years or newer, should be almost spot on. The GPS on my fishing boat will allow me to spot lock a GPS point, and hold that point with the trolling motor.
If I want, the GPS will allow me to "jog over" in 10 foot increments and it will then hold me in the new position. Hit "jog" 4 times, the GPS moves me over 40 feet, all by itself.
 
William Reinicke said:
Explain this.... im not understanding.
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Can't speak for Roy's depth finder, but on my phone app--and my hand-held GPS when I had one--a plotted route from point to point will take the shortest path. The machine doesn't know if you are on water, land, or in the air. I suspect more sophisticated systems can plot a route that keeps you in defined navigation channels where those exist. In fact, this is why NOAA says their new Electronic Navigation Charts are an improvement. But probably 90% of my hunting and fishing is in places where there are no defined navigational channels, or where I am in shallow and even intertidal areas outside them. What I have done for some spots that are tricky to get to and have dangerous obstacles I want to avoid is to run a track in day light when I can see them, and then save that track so I can follow it when navigating in the dark and/or fog. Do NOT try this in tidal waters unless you are laying out your routes at dead low on a spring tide day!
 
Jeff Reardon said:
What I have done for some spots that are tricky to get to and have dangerous obstacles I want to avoid is to run a track in day light when I can see them, and then save that track so I can follow it when navigating in the dark and/or fog. Do NOT try this in tidal waters unless you are laying out your routes at dead low on a spring tide day!
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Exactly,,,,,,,,,,,^^^^^
What I do is to create a route I can save, from my recorded track. On screen at home, I scroll along my recorded track, placing waypoints (as many as needed) along the track to avoid "crossing dry land". Then connect the waypoints as a route. The route can now be "saved", to be used over and over until I new to make changes.
 
Huntindave McCann said:
Roy,
Then you either have very poor GPS reception or a very poor processor in your unit. I experienced very poor same track recordings like you described many many years ago. I could drive down a narrow road and leave a track, later the same day return down that same road, yet the tracks would not overlap.
Any unit new within 8 years or newer, should be almost spot on. The GPS on my fishing boat will allow me to spot lock a GPS point, and hold that point with the trolling motor.
If I want, the GPS will allow me to "jog over" in 10 foot increments and it will then hold me in the new position. Hit "jog" 4 times, the GPS moves me over 40 feet, all by itself.
Click to expand...
Love spot lock, but only works if into the wind.... sometimes I approach my fish from down wind. The jog is very nice for this.... VERY nice.
Jeff Reardon said:
Can't speak for Roy's depth finder, but on my phone app--and my hand-held GPS when I had one--a plotted route from point to point will take the shortest path. The machine doesn't know if you are on water, land, or in the air. I suspect more sophisticated systems can plot a route that keeps you in defined navigation channels where those exist. In fact, this is why NOAA says their new Electronic Navigation Charts are an improvement. But probably 90% of my hunting and fishing is in places where there are no defined navigational channels, or where I am in shallow and even intertidal areas outside them. What I have done for some spots that are tricky to get to and have dangerous obstacles I want to avoid is to run a track in day light when I can see them, and then save that track so I can follow it when navigating in the dark and/or fog. Do NOT try this in tidal waters unless you are laying out your routes at dead low on a spring tide day!
Click to expand...
So I think when we say track lines, we are recording the lines we have already run and the GPS is marking our lines. I have MANY track lines that look like my boat was run up into the land because the navionics company could not get that far up river where I hunt birds, to record the lake. Again, track lines are only made on the GPS unit after you have run to that spot. These are not premarked layouts of runs. I actually find these lines probably the most important because this is when waters get shallow and there might be those stumps or logs I want to miss in the dark. When i see them in the day light, I will park next to them, put a way point with an bright red X on that spot so I know to miss it in the dark.

I guess what I couldnt understand is how his track lines move from one hour to the next depending on tidal changes? Or maybe he cant run his same track line because the tide changes so much in x amount of hours that he cant take the same route home? If thats the case, I would run a blue line up to the hole when tide is up, and a red line back to the boat when the tide is down and you have to know where that channel is to get home. Then you can follow both tracks depending on water conditions.
 
Huntindave McCann said:
Exactly,,,,,,,,,,,^^^^^
What I do is to create a route I can save, from my recorded track. On screen at home, I scroll along my recorded track, placing waypoints (as many as needed) along the track to avoid "crossing dry land". Then connect the waypoints as a route. The route can now be "saved", to be used over and over until I new to make changes.
Click to expand...
This is how I find structure piles to fish as well. You can go on google earth and back track to previous years when lakes are super low and see all the exposed structure piles. I then make way points of those spots, that I think will hold fish, and then mark them into my fishfinders and go check them out. You can really find some neat stuff and some nice underwater ledges and points by doing this. Dont use that technique just for making routes sir. Ive found some real hidden stuff and it beats idling around all day staring at a fish finder on side scan trying to find fish.
 
What I have done for some spots that are tricky to get to and have dangerous obstacles I want to avoid is to run a track in day light when I can see them, and then save that track so I can follow it when navigating in the dark and/or fog. Do NOT try this in tidal waters unless you are laying out your routes at dead low on a spring tide day!
Click to expand...
YES!! This is what i did back in Mobile. Our dead lowest tides were usually in February, Id go out and find the center of the channel and drop pins down the center lines and then create a route.

For some older GPS base maps, its the old base maps themselves that are not accurate, especially in smaller tidal streams. To me the ideal setup would have high resolution aerial imagery as the basemap, tied to a sub-meter accuracy GPS. You could do that with an hardened IPad and a puck GPS, we use this setup for our field work.
 
Carl said:
YES!! This is what i did back in Mobile. Our dead lowest tides were usually in February, Id go out and find the center of the channel and drop pins down the center lines and then create a route.

For some older GPS base maps, its the old base maps themselves that are not accurate, especially in smaller tidal streams. To me the ideal setup would have high resolution aerial imagery as the basemap, tied to a sub-meter accuracy GPS. You could do that with an hardened IPad and a puck GPS, we use this setup for our field work.
Click to expand...
My HDS9 lowrance has the ability to show satelite imaging display. No idea how old the imaging is but it looks like you are looking at google maps. It is loaded into the old lowrance software. i should see if its on my newer units. I never use it, but I know one day it got stuck in that mode on my display and i had to figure out how to get it back on my navionics display.
 
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