I hunted early this morning. Got to the spot almost an hour before legal, quite a bit of thin ice to break on the way out. Nice Geminid meteor shower. As mentioned before, I idle away from the launch then get up on plane for the two mile ride. When I pulled into the spot, a group of birds got out close to the boat, no more scared than from the old 2-stroke outboard. Admittedly, this thing is loud as hell, but I'm not seeing birds clear out because of the noise. The access thing and neighbor complaints seem like a bigger deal to me. Maybe things are different where there are lots of mud motors.
Disturbing Ducks
- Thread starter Eric Patterson
- Start date
I would put lawn tractors and commercial mowers in a different class, than the previously mentioned "lawn mower". You are entirely correct that these engines are NOT the same due to the designed exhaust on them.
Just for reference, some, many, a few, states already have a noise level law on the books.
Boating Noise Limit Regulations By State
The Coast Guard recommends 86 decibels (dBA), which most states have adopted as law. SAE J2005: This measures the engine sound at idle with the microphone 1.5 m away. SAE recommends a limit of 90dbA for this method, which does not account for the speed or power of the boat.
They are definitely noisy buggers. One area that I hunt there is a guy that has dual mud motors on a big flat bottom jon boat. When he fires these things up and goes screaming through the marsh he is definitely pushing birds up well ahead of him. The first time I heard this screaming through the marsh it was O dark thirty, it scared the h--l out me.
Jay K
Active member
Interesting articles:
AGFC gets earful on mud motors | Arkansas Democrat Gazette
Two duck hunting groups addressed the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission on Wednesday to talk about overcrowding at WMAs and surface-drive outboard motors.
www.arkansasonline.com
AGFC turns ears to mud motors | Arkansas Democrat Gazette
In response to noise complaints, the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission is looking to quiet "mud motors" on wildlife management areas.
www.arkansasonline.com
Seems like we are NOT the only ones with this issue. They reference the db levels and it seems they all are above the typically accepted level even at idle. It's a tricky argument. I personally think they are obnoxious and most of the individuals I have encountered running them are equally obnoxious and imposing. That does NOT include everyone but my overall experience has not been positive.
With that being said, the "slippery slope" might start. First it's mud motors. Then maybe it's all 2 stroke outboards. Then it's all outboards above 25hp. Then all outboards. And finally we end up with canoe/kayak or walk in only...being the "least intrusive." I don't really know where this goes to be honest.
Rick Pierce
Well-known member
At least down here, it seems like there is a significant difference in the volume of an outboard versus mud motor, particularly now that 4-stroke outboards are more the norm. You can hear the mud motors from a much longer distance in the timber or on the river channels.
I also agree with what others have said that, "I am going anywhere" mentality that is allowing people deeper access....they would get out and walk or they would leave it alone, but now, they plow right on in and tear through to get "away" from everyone else and "scout". Instead of stopping and looking, they motor on in and push whatever is there.
And we already have restrictions on multiple WMA's as to horsepower in Arkansas. Some of the "holy grail" spots are limited to 25hp; I can't imagine what kind of bs people would get up to if they were allowed 40-50hp motors at Bayou Meto...there would be deaths, most likely. An early morning run through the timber at WOT with someone who knows the trails is better than any carnival ride. One of the first times I hunted the Cache River, the guy I was hunting with said, "uh...you see the handles inside the boat? grab them...don't grab the rail and put your fingers outside...they might get crushed on a tree...wait...better yet, just lay down in the bottom of the boat...you might not want to see what's going on..."
I don't think mud motors are the "only" problem, but I think they are adding to the issues we already have in several different ways. And when the hunting is poor, everyone wants to find the magic reason why...
I also agree with what others have said that, "I am going anywhere" mentality that is allowing people deeper access....they would get out and walk or they would leave it alone, but now, they plow right on in and tear through to get "away" from everyone else and "scout". Instead of stopping and looking, they motor on in and push whatever is there.
And we already have restrictions on multiple WMA's as to horsepower in Arkansas. Some of the "holy grail" spots are limited to 25hp; I can't imagine what kind of bs people would get up to if they were allowed 40-50hp motors at Bayou Meto...there would be deaths, most likely. An early morning run through the timber at WOT with someone who knows the trails is better than any carnival ride. One of the first times I hunted the Cache River, the guy I was hunting with said, "uh...you see the handles inside the boat? grab them...don't grab the rail and put your fingers outside...they might get crushed on a tree...wait...better yet, just lay down in the bottom of the boat...you might not want to see what's going on..."
I don't think mud motors are the "only" problem, but I think they are adding to the issues we already have in several different ways. And when the hunting is poor, everyone wants to find the magic reason why...
Rick
I'm actually surprised the 3:00 am rule (or is it 4:00?) hasn't resulted in deaths in the timber. The boat congestion and speeds are a recipe for disaster. It's only a matter of time.
I'm actually surprised the 3:00 am rule (or is it 4:00?) hasn't resulted in deaths in the timber. The boat congestion and speeds are a recipe for disaster. It's only a matter of time.
Rick Pierce
Well-known member
4 am rule; the boat races were the stuff of legend, and eventually, someone was going to get themselves dead. I did it one time at Bayou Meto, and while I can say I saw it for myself and am glad, I don't need to do that ever again. There were some injuries here and there, and several years ago two boats collided head on, broad daylight, when someone cut the inside of a blind curve at the Hurricane Lake WMA. That WMA does not have a hp restriction, and they run 40hp and larger motors routinely.
The Game & Fish Commission cracked down on it pretty hard. They installed gates in the boat road just out from the launch; only one boat at a time can get through, and they mandated a minimum 100 foot distance between boats. They are also known to have wardens in boats out in the boat roads handing out tickets for various and sundry, particularly passing a stopped boat (theirs) at speed, rather than at idle as the law requires.
Like a lot of things, rules beget rules, and people look for ways to get around them. The 4 am entry was put in place because people would pay young guys to go sleep out in the holes and "save" them until the group showed up. Happened more when guides were allowed on the WMA's, but even after they were banned, there was still guiding going on. Game & Fish wanted the birds to have some time to get into the timber and rest, so they mandated that everyone had to be out by noon, and not enter before 4 am. That started the boat races.
The whole thing about getting there "fustest with the mostest" is another one of those things that depends totally on everyone else. Let's say I get to a prime hole - one of the "known" spots on Cache, Rainey, or Bayou Meto, at 4:40 and pitch my decoys out, set the jerk string, hang the guns on the tree, and wade the boat back into the trees. I am now at the mercy of everyone else's good nature for the next two hours, because Arkansas does not have a minimum distance or first come, first served rule on public ground. So some yutz can come motoring on in at 5 minutes before shooting light and set up 50 yards away, or immediately downwind, or both. A lot of groups will find a hole then send people out for a hundred yards or so with lights in as many directions as they can, to discourage anyone setting up too close. Most normal people don't even come close, but there's always someone..."you can't keep me from hunting here"
When there is water and people are moderately behaving themselves, it's not as big of an issue. Get low water years and everyone wanting the same few holes, and it can get a little tense.
Personally, I wish they would make a few more parts of the WMA's walk-in or non-motorized boats only. There are some sections of Bayou Meto that that would be dangerous because you have to pass by the water control structures, and on high water, the current would be more than any paddle/row could handle, but I think the results would be interesting to see.
I tried Petite Jean WMA and Bayou Meto when I lived down there. Never could really learn the ropes on my own and I was there during the drought years of the 80s. Hunted mostly the White River and in Oklahoma.
Now we are in the low water years up here.
The Mississippi River is the lowest I ever seen it. Do you remember Princeton Marsh? Opening day this year there were 20 rigs between both parking lots. It's a 1700 acre marsh. Way to many people in that small of an area but it is what it is. I only hunt it in the middle of the week and not very often anymore.
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Jim Donofrio
Member
Notice when mud motors run thru the marsh the ducks leave outboards they get up and come back down
Mark W
Well-known member
No. Maybe noise limits but nothing more. Changing out a muffler on a small mud motor usually requires rejetting or more and most people can't handle doing that. And a gun shot or three makes more noise than a mud motor. Going to ban gunshots next as they would break any local noise ordinance
Paul Taylor
Active member
I've hunted S Louisiana for nearly 25 years. Surface drives made their appearance in 2003 or 4. I am 100% for a ban on surface driven mud boats. The use of surface drive mud boats has destroyed all public waterfowling opportunity down South. As someone mentioned above, banning them would make 90% of the marsh inaccessible......that's what ducks need! Instead the ducks are driven from the marsh a week before season opens as folks "scout" and build blinds. These ducks push off into the Gulf or the Atlantic to roost and feed nocturnally.
Those that say it's the operator, not the motor are lying to themselves. The LDWF enacted a 36hp max rule and stock muffler requirement and they are doing their best to enforce it. I was at camp the last two weeks, it's sickening to hear and see hopped up mud boats running all over the place, even the stock muffler surface drives are similar to an air boat, they get folks further and further into places that NEED to be difficult to reach for refuge for ducks.
Those that say it's the operator, not the motor are lying to themselves. The LDWF enacted a 36hp max rule and stock muffler requirement and they are doing their best to enforce it. I was at camp the last two weeks, it's sickening to hear and see hopped up mud boats running all over the place, even the stock muffler surface drives are similar to an air boat, they get folks further and further into places that NEED to be difficult to reach for refuge for ducks.
Bomber
Active member
No and I have a very quite 4 storke outboard. So no real effect on my life I just thibk our world is over regulated already.
I don't know about bans, but I'd strongly support restricting mud-motors--or all motors--in some areas. Maine's Merrymeeting Bay is a no wake zone except when travelling within the marked navigation channels. I've fished some mangrove creeks in Florida that were designated no-motor zones, and it was a pleasure to fish over flats that were not covered with prop scars. A few lakes and ponds in Maine have no motors rules; a lot more have <10 hp limits. Still plenty of jet skis and big boats and air boats and probably the mud motors will get here, but it's nice to have some places that offer opportunities that are quieter and at a slower pace. I'm trying to imagine what it would be like to try to scull ducks if Merrymeeting Bay allowed mud motors at speed back in the shallow water rice flats.
Paul Taylor
Active member
Surface drive mud boats ARE a problem, loud or not, they are destroying public waterfowl opportunities. Folks up North don’t have near the number of mud boats, yet
This was last week in S La. I owned a longtail and a homemade straight drive mud motor. I quit using it about 5 yrs ago. 4 stroke outboard on main canals then paddle, push pole only now.
Turn up the volume. These Heybo’s drove into the pond, saw me filming and turned around and left. 8:30 a.m. Ridiculous You can hear the one boat for miles.
Rick Pierce
Well-known member
I was in Moline two weeks ago for a business trip and went over the new bridge...the river was shockingly low.
Petit Jean is a WMA I've never hunted but wanted to; it's just far enough away that I couldn't hunt it and learn it well enough to do it justice. I like Bayou Meto, but the crowding is something else - this year it's almost dry, though, and from what I understand there have been foot races to the few flooded spots and bayou channels. I actually prefer the Cache River, but it's more tupelo and cypress rather than traditional oak flats, and it's just under two hours to get to the boat ramp.
And, with the AGFC enacting the restrictions on nonresident hunters, it's a total cluster if I want to try and take anyone out on public land. There is a WMA that is on a river, and I have an in with a landowner who has frontage on the river; I would have a place to stay, be able to tie the boat up in a concrete slip, get up and walk down to the river to go hunt. There is actually one spot that I can walk to by walking down the river bank about 50 yards and never take the boat. Mixed bag of anything from teal and shovelers to cans, bluebills, mallards, geese, whatever...almost like some of the old Andalusia blinds. Good spot to base out of and take a few people, right? Nope...the OOS regs limit which days of the season they can hunt, so if the schedule doesn't line up....too bad...
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jode hillman
Well-known member
I agree they sure are. They are really increasing in use con my area of nj that I hunt and after a weekend off running and Gunning a large majority of birds have headed for open waters. It takes them at least till Wednesday or Thursday to settle back in and feed normally.
I was in Arkansas a couple of times this year. Spent some time on Table Rock and Beaver Lake. The area is so grown up I don't know it any longer. Talk around here wasn't good after the Woodie hunts in the opening weeks. Resident goose was pretty good until they got educated and found areas where boats couldn't get to. A few gw teal, Gadwall and Ringnecks were what I saw at the boat ramp. I didn't even see any Mallards until after Thanks Giving into December. I heard there were upwards of 50,000 Canvasbacks in pool 13. The guy that told me that hangs out here and said friends of his went out a couple days later with layout boats but they were all gone. The Forbes Institute down in Central Illinois has been reporting populations on the Illinois River and Mississippi River have been steady reporting 10% above the 10 year populations of most ducks except divers and Pintail. They did report an upswing in Cans. I guess I know where they went after there pool 13 rest over. Wish I'd known you were in town. I think it's my turn to buy the beer. Maybe next time.