Divers flaring on me in my new layout boat

J

Jefff

New member
New to layout boat hunting for divers, having somewhat of a hard time getting them to commit. It?s a banks dual cock pit, love the quality, but I think I need a little advice on how to use it.
 
Can you describe a little more? My feeling is .. when you think you should shoot.. staying laying down and count to 5... they will come closer! That being said, are they a LOT of layouts in your area? could they be getting wise? What kind of birds? Or.. are they just coming in low, and rising up , before they commit?


Final solution..... get rid of the plastic decoys! [;)]
 
Hunting St Clair and Erie. 100 decoys out reds and cans. Put decoys out in front of layout into the wind, wondering if I?m better to immerse myself in the spread
 
There are lots of strategies to using a true layout boat. Some guys will insert it right into the middle of the rig, some upwind. When we hunted with mine, we always used a "tadpole", (or sperm, as my friend called it), with the mixed puddle and diver decoys, with the tail trailing and trickling off, sometimes 75 yards or more downwind. We then anchored the layout about 5-10 yards upwind, BUT, then, we usually put a dozen or so goose decoys all around the little boat to break it up, while leaving a channel for the tender. I dont recall ever having flaring birds, until it was too late for them. As long as you're targeting divers, at least singles and small groups, they almost always land at the very upwind edge of the spread. Nothing in this whole world is as cool as a single coming across the spread, picking up on the tail, and flying up the "slot" as we called it, feet down, wing tips barely beating, looking to land at the head of the spread.


On a side note, I'm right handed, and my partner was left handed, hence the tadpole configuration. As long as the wind wasn't too strong, up on gunner exchange, we would actually swing the "foot" anchor to the right for me, and to the left for him to angle the boat slightly, for our individual swings. The "foot" anchor was able to be relieved, via a deck cleat, if the wind suddenly changed for safety. We found this quite effective.

Jon
 
Are the birds seriously flaring or just coming around for a 'look see' and find out they really aren't interested after all? Especially with pressured birds, they may be reluctant to fully commit. I'm of the opinion that the only thing the really flares divers is unnatural movement in either the spread or the layout. Stay still until it's time to shoot. I almost always had my layout on the upwind end or 1/3 of the spread with it cocked to the right so a right handed shooter could cover the spread OR on the upwind end of a wide slot in the middle of the spread. The slot gave the birds a place to key into and a safe landing zone. Tried putting the layout on the downwind end a couple of times but then had too many birds slip in behind us.

Try different boat positions around or in your spread and watch what the birds do and how they act. They will usually tell you what's wrong. I like the tail (sperm) idea that Jon suggested but sometimes it just allows the birds to swing out even wider than they normally would. Again, watch how the birds react.

When everything seems right and you still aren't shooting ducks it just might be "one of those days" when the ducks don't want anything to do with you. One day on Green Bay we were only shooting an occasional single Merg and almost no Bills or GE were interested. At about 11:30 with the sun bright and the water calm - hardly any wind, we talked about picking up. All of a sudden it was like someone threw a switch and we had birds all over and soon limited out. What changed? Don't have a clue but that's the way it works sometimes.

Another day out on Lake Michigan hunting Old Squaw with two one man layouts. Instead of setting up with the layouts side by side with the decoys downwind we set up back to back - one looking downwind and the other upwind. I got 'stuck' with the upwind side with one string of decoys in front of me. The guys that shot out of my upwind boat took more birds than the traditional downwind boat - go figure.
 
My test is to pull the hunter and let the layout boat and rig in place. Almost every time it is the hunter moving or pie facing that flares the birds. It's amazing to see the hunters attitude change when birds start landing in the decoys as we motor away.

The other trick is to put the layout where you are shooting off your left shoulder and not over your feet. That way the birds are not looking directly at you when coming in. You'll learn to play the wind and sun for the best set up. I also like to put a few geese floaters right around the layout to hide it some.

A big issue for them not wanting to commit 100% is just being in the wrong spot. You can get them to look at the spread but if it's not somewhere they normally sit they may just not like it.

Good luck and have fun with it!
 
Agree with Jon, we shot broadbill. Surround the boat in the rig leaving room for the tender to come in up wind/ Usually have a tail to lead the birds in.
Watch the cockpit colors, probably wearing camo in the boat. Grey canvas cover or white camo cover.
 
You also may be showing a shadow around the downwind chine edge on your Hercules; they float quite high empty (own one-man version) and take some weight to get them low in the water. When you are in the boat look to determine whether the chine is dipping in the water on the section of the hull surrounding your legs. Overall, they are great boats!
 
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Jefff said:
Hunting St Clair and Erie. 100 decoys out reds and cans. Put decoys out in front of layout into the wind, wondering if I?m better to immerse myself in the spread
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I'm a little puzzled by this. When you say "into the wind", do you mean the decoys are upwind from the layout? Is your layout boat facing into the wind? We usually just start by anchoring the layout boat facing straight downwind, then set the decoys in a rough rectangle starting about even with the boat and trailing downwind. We use about 120 decoys on ten lines, and we set six to eight lines to the left of the boat to favor our "good" side for shooting right-handed, then we put the remaining lines to the right, leaving a gap as an escape route for the tender. If the birds flare from this setup, we move the layout boat to a different location. Now and then it helps, but usually when birds are all flaring from the rig it indicates "stale" birds that have been around for awhile and been shot at. The big indicator for me is this: New birds, young birds, and dumb birds will drop down near the water and come right into the rig as if on a string. Birds that have been shot at from layout boats will come in the same way, but will rise up 20 or 30 feet off the water when they get within maybe 80 yards of the rig for a better look. It's just a theory, but my impression is that they are looking specifically for a layout boat, having been shot at from one before.
Setting the layout in the middle of the rig might work, but it would invite birds to swing in from the side and land behind you, especially on your weak side where you can't reach them. I have read that some guys used to learn to shoot either-handed for just that reason.
I hunt Lake St. Clair all the time. If it makes you feel any better, I have never seen the ducks so wary as they have become this year. They showed up early and just hung around week after week getting shot at. Last time I was out they were just gone. I'm hoping they just moved to another part of the lake and will come back to "my" area, but I fear they may have moved on.
 
The two man Bankes is a very nice layout boat and comfortable but sits high in the water and does not hide well from my experience. I hunt the Great lakes mostly. If you have
a bigger chop on the water it helps. Hunting Sea ducks in the Ocean with the two man Bankes does not seem to bother them they will come right in. The lower you can get a layout boat in the water with no slapping of the waves under the gunnels works the best. The best layout boat that I hunted out of was a Pecore Fox the gunnels would be under the water and the
water would wash up on the deck like a sandy beach. I have been layout shooting for 39yrs. Look how low a sinkbox sat in the water that is why they outlawed them. The lower you can get in the water with less noise and movement of layout boat the more effective it will be.

Tom
 
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Hi Jeff,
One odd question is, are you shooting with the wind at your back with the decoys in front of you? So the birds would be approaching you to land over your toes? I could see a huge mistake being that you are downwind of your decoys with the decoys behind you so the first thing the birds see is you! I'm sorry if that seems elementary, but you did say that you are beginning. Other than that, can you have a look at your rig from a tender? Are you sitting too far up? Do you have a skirt over your cockpit or are the birds seeing you in a "black hole" in the cockpit. Let us know what adjustments you make and how you make out.
 
I do that too Carl, I like to position myself to shoot over my left foot because it's a more natural swing for me vs. straight lifting the gun over the stern.
 
Whether it's puddlers or divers I try and capture the essence of what Carl's diagram illustrates. When ducks are making there landing approach I don't want them looking at me. I want to be to the side. When they do look at me I want them looking in the sun, whenever possible. Shadows and glint make it much harder for them to pick up on you.
 
Eric Patterson said:
I don't want them looking at me. I want to be to the side..
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It seemed counter intuitive when I was starting out to have decoys positioned off to the side, but I subscribe to the same technique both for the reason you said, and because it's more natural for my swing. Good advice.
 
As others have said, don't hesitate to move your boat around if the ducks are flaring.

Don't get stuck on a pattern. Often moving your boat a little during the hunt will make a big difference. Still flaring? Move it again.
The sun position and wind will be changing, you can too.
 
What I find interesting about this thread, is the different opinions from different hunters, and what works for them. It seems to indicate, there is indeed, no absolute "right" way to do it. And that in itself is kinda cool.

For instance, when we layout hunted, we never put the layout boat right in the main spread, but rather upwind a bit. We did, however, put a few blocks around the little boat to help break up the outline. I've seen many a photo of the late, great Jim Schmiedlin(sp), where his boat was anchored right in amongst his hand carved rig.

Jon
 
Very true Jon!

I usually have decoys starting 5 yards or so in front of the layout ( hooked to the layout ) and swing around left and right of layout.. actually .. I call it tits and tassels!

The Picture is representative. Each of the "Tits" are about 110' with 2 doz decoys, and the tassel is 55' with 10-12 decoys on it. More decoys can go where ever.. but this works pretty well for me... Both of the "tits" attach to a line connected to the layout. I wouldn't use this if it was rough seas as you have to approach the layout with the tender from the read and then back out..
[inline "t&t (2).jpg"]
View attachment IMG_20181128_214227007.jpgView attachment DSC_6677.JPG
 
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Your diagrams might have greater utility if you bothered to note that the OP is hunting out of a Bankes Revolution dual gunner layout.
 
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