Duck Harvest By County.

D

David Clites

Active member
Attached is from latest issue of DU magazine. And I found the same map by searching online. But I can't find in tabular form so I can compare various counties in states I have hunted or plan to hunt. Anybody know where to access this data?IMG_20220901_181342.jpg
 
To hear the Louisiana duck hunters talk about their success in recent years you'd think their state would be all white :) Looking at the counties I hunt I never knew we were up there with the heart of the MS flyway. Hmmmmmm.

Eric
 
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David Clites said:
Attached is from latest issue of DU magazine. And I found the same map by searching online. But I can't find in tabular form so I can compare various counties in states I have hunted or plan to hunt. Anybody know where to access this data?
Click to expand...

Is that total harvest, or harvest per hunter? If total harvest, this may be as much a map of where the people are as where the ducks are. As is often the case, Maine does not look right. Big chunks of NW Maine that have essentially zero human population, no organized towns, no public roads and no duck hunters show a fair amount of duck harvest. Some of those areas see a lot of partridge and moose hunters, but I spend a lot of time up there and know almost nobody who duck hunts it.
 
That map is here (scroll down) in a form where you can click on each county. But it does not give numbers--just the rank of each county in its state and nationally. And I still can't tell if it's total harvest or harvest per hunter. I suspect it's total harvest, and so this is largely a map of where the duck hunters are concentrated.

I wonder if all my stats are attributed to the county I live in? I actually hunt in 5 or 6 counties that are within an hour or so of my house most years.

https://fws.gov/harvestsurvey/harvest-vis
 
Well I hope you enjoyed the article at least [;)].

I put the map in the article because I wanted hunters to see how their data is used and to have some fun looking and comparing counties within their states and across the country. There are lots of surprises in that map but the comparisons are all relative. I am glad you are looking at it and asking questions.

To answer the questions, yes it is total harvest estimated to have been harvested in that county. I'm not aware of the USFWS publishing the data at the county level.

As I tried to explain in the article, these are surveys that require participation by hunters. Remember these are surveys not total counts based on mandatory reporting. The estimates of harvest resulting from each step of the survey process have some level of imprecision. Sample sizes are set at the state level, so they are pretty reliable at the state level, very good at the flyway level and excellent at the national level. But at the county level the estimates may have only a few participating hunters, response rates may be low, or a variety other issues. As many of you know I have been trying to work with states to improve their HIP processes especially at the point of sale or license vendors. A big source of potential survey error comes at this first step of buying a license and getting HIP certification. If the sales clerk doesn't ask the HIP questions or puts in fake data then the survey is off to a poor start.

Happy discuss any aspects of this now that summer is over and duck season hasn't started.

Get your HIP certification and make sure you answer those questions.......
 

Brad,

I did enjoy your article as well as the map. Reading and studying things that are important in my life are seldom boring.

I have not "been everywhere" while chasing waterfowl for many years, but have been many places in 3 flyways. I found the map to be pretty much accurate by my experiences. With less habitat each year I believe that is also reflected in the map. I do know that the county I now live in is spot on, as is the county that I moved from for both ducks and geese.

The map pertaining to goose harvest is also very good IMO. Years ago Winchester printed a large map with all the goose "hot spots". I have a copy of it stashed somewhere in my library. From what I recall of that map, and the current map, things have changed just a little.

HIP registration with the NY DEC was very easy, and much smoother than in past years. Your efforts are working and are much appreciated. With fewer waterfowl hunters our honest input is more important than ever.


Best regards
Vince
 
Brad Bortner said:
Well I hope you enjoyed the article at least [;)].

I put the map in the article because I wanted hunters to see how their data is used and to have some fun looking and comparing counties within their states and across the country. There are lots of surprises in that map but the comparisons are all relative. I am glad you are looking at it and asking questions.

To answer the questions, yes it is total harvest estimated to have been harvested in that county. I'm not aware of the USFWS publishing the data at the county level.

As I tried to explain in the article, these are surveys that require participation by hunters. Remember these are surveys not total counts based on mandatory reporting. The estimates of harvest resulting from each step of the survey process have some level of imprecision. Sample sizes are set at the state level, so they are pretty reliable at the state level, very good at the flyway level and excellent at the national level. But at the county level the estimates may have only a few participating hunters, response rates may be low, or a variety other issues. As many of you know I have been trying to work with states to improve their HIP processes especially at the point of sale or license vendors. A big source of potential survey error comes at this first step of buying a license and getting HIP certification. If the sales clerk doesn't ask the HIP questions or puts in fake data then the survey is off to a poor start.

Happy discuss any aspects of this now that summer is over and duck season hasn't started.

Get your HIP certification and make sure you answer those questions.......
Click to expand...

Thanks, Brad. Very helpful background info. And thanks also for the encouragement to all to fill out the HIP survey.

Your comment that some county estimates may rely on only a handful of hunters helps explain county-level results that look odd to me. In areas that see a lot of duck hunters, it's a safe bet that surveys will get returned from a lot of hunters and capture a range of hunter experience and effort. But for very rural counties or counties that are not destinations for travelling hunters, results are a lot more likely to be skewed by low response rates.

Since the data are reported as total harvest per county, they may also be skewed by differences between counties in population and land area. Notwithstanding all the uncertainties and imprecision, do you know whether the reporter harvest county is capturing the number of ducks reported to the harvested IN THAT COUNTY, or do they represent the number of ducks harvested by responding HUNTERS WHO LIVE IN THAT COUNTY?
 
Jeff, estimates are from the county were the hunter reported harvesting birds, not the county of their residence. Some of those Northwoods counties are pretty large and mostly indurstrial forestlands but there might be some pockets of black duck hunters up there.

The other thing I?ll mention is that we found in several states that hunters with no intention of hunting migratory birds were getting HIP certified. Whether through confusion, the free nature of the HIP process in that state or the license vendor just adding it to the license sale. This leads to adding a bunch of folks in the survey and decreases the precision of the estimates (but I doubt it increases the estimated harvest). I know that it increased my mail from angry deer hunters.
 


HMmmmmm HIP certified and not waterfowlers. Doesn't that hamper the true number of waterfowlers in the USA? Or is it all just "a ball of confusion".

Is there any credible info to know how many waterfowl hunters there are?
 
Vince, glad you enjoyed the article.

Actually it?s a complex question. So what number do you want? The number of unique people who hunt waterfowl in the US? Every 5 years the USFWS has the Census Bureau to conduct a survey of hunting in the US and they estimate the number of migratory bird hunters. It?s the most credible number of bird hunters. The harvest survey estimates the number of active waterfowl hunters. It?s credible too. But since hunters must register must register for HIP in each state where they hunt, it?s probably not accurate to add numbers from all of the states.
 
Brad,

Thank you for your reply, much appreciated.

A complex question with a complex answer kinda makes yer head spin. I never knew the Census Bureau conducted a hunting survey, as I or anyone I hunt with was ever contacted. That seems to be something that hunters would talk about. Very interesting, and the learning curve continues...

I dunno if we are unique. Touched in the head likely but who knows?
 
Brad Bortner said:
Some of those Northwoods counties are pretty large and mostly indurstrial forestlands but there might be some pockets of black duck hunters up there.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply.


What surprised me up there was a lot of harvest in Aroostook and Somerset Counties, and almost none in Piscataquis between them. But on further thought, Somerset extends south to some pretty productive farmland along the Sandy and Kennebec Rivers that sees a fair amount of duck hunting, and eastern Aroostook has a bunch farmland that gets hunted hard for geese where there is probably a fair amount of incidental duck harvest. Can't think of anywhere in Piscataquis that gets hunted much for waterfowl.
 
Vince Pagliaroli said:
HMmmmmm HIP certified and not waterfowlers. Doesn't that hamper the true number of waterfowlers in the USA? Or is it all just "a ball of confusion".

Is there any credible info to know how many waterfowl hunters there are?
Click to expand...

Similar issues in some states with saltwater fishing license. When the feds required all coastal states to have some kind of permit so that saltwater anglers could be counted, most states went to issuing a saltwater license. In a few--and Maine is one of them--this became a political football, and did not get resolved until the feds threatened to cut off federal funding until Maine complied. We eventually got $1 dollar saltwater fishing license, but you don't need to buy one if you check a box that you intend to fish saltwater when you buy a freshwater license. Lots of people check the box and never fish the salt.

I wonder if some states have similar systems for the HIP that cause confusion?
 

Brad,

Oh my. That's a Whole Lotta Info.

Might have to have my wife print it out, as that much reading on the puter I cannot abide, even with new eyes.[;)]

Thank you.



IMO this is why Duckboats is essential to the waterfowling community. Correct & Helpful Info.
 
Jeff Reardon said:
Vince Pagliaroli said:
HMmmmmm HIP certified and not waterfowlers. Doesn't that hamper the true number of waterfowlers in the USA? Or is it all just "a ball of confusion".

Is there any credible info to know how many waterfowl hunters there are?
Click to expand...

Similar issues in some states with saltwater fishing license. When the feds required all coastal states to have some kind of permit so that saltwater anglers could be counted, most states went to issuing a saltwater license. In a few--and Maine is one of them--this became a political football, and did not get resolved until the feds threatened to cut off federal funding until Maine complied. We eventually got $1 dollar saltwater fishing license, but you don't need to buy one if you check a box that you intend to fish saltwater when you buy a freshwater license. Lots of people check the box and never fish the salt.

I wonder if some states have similar systems for the HIP that cause confusion?
Click to expand...

Jeff, almost exactly the same issue. There are 49 states with migratory bird hunting seasons and at least 49 different approaches to selling hunting licenses. HIP is free in some states while others charge a small fee. Even a small fee is a hot topic in some states. HIP is also called different names : registration, certification, migratory bird hunting permit, etc. All of that stems from a long history of state and federal roles in wildlife management. Its neither bad or good, it just is. I've always tried to just accept that complexity and find solutions. I hope you'll be hearing much more about HIP in the next 1 1/2 years as we launch an effort to answer questions and do a better job of communicating with hunters while eliminating confusion.

BTW, as the map indicates, Piscataquis has the lowest duck harvest of any county in Maine, while goose harvest is lowest in Hancock county. There are some counties in other states where no duck harvest has ever been reported.

Vince, I appreciate the community here as well. The members want to learn and understand. So as I can, I'll answer questions or help you find answers to your questions.
 
Brad Bortner said:
There are 49 states with migratory bird hunting seasons and at least 49 different approaches to selling hunting licenses.
Click to expand...

Hawaii?

Many thanks for all the info. Somewhere in there is a lesson about state/federal coordination and how to make it more effective that goes beyond fish and ducks. LOL

One thing I do like about the waterfowl world that the migratory fisheries world has yet to learn is a consistent framework for bag limits and seasons throughout the flyway. We can only dream about that for species like striped bass.
 
Yep. No migratory bird hunting in Hawaii. But they do have upland bird hunting

Our system of Government is based on states
 

Brad Bortner said:
Yep. No migratory bird hunting in Hawaii. But they do have upland bird hunting

Our system of Government is based on states
Click to expand...

Agreed about the states. But whatever you do, do not duplicate the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission for waterfowl management.
 
Several of my colleagues have given talks to various fisheries management groups about how the migratory bird management world works. The big elephant in the room is the role of commercial interests. The Magnuson-Stevens Act also.
 
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