Mike Trudel
Well-known member
Mike, check out, "Four Shots", in the November/December issue of Shooting Sportsman. Best skiff story I have read in a long time. This story will hit close to home to all those who try to find solitude while hunting.
duck hunting stories and journalism....
- Thread starter uncle mike pierce
- Start date
Mark W
Well-known member
I guess I don't see what is wrong with this? I don't trout fish much but I do occassionally so I don't know if the "migrating and spawning brown trout" makes what was done harmful. But, I see nothing wrong at all with a guide helping folks hook trout, remove foul hooks and re situate the hook in the jaw so a picture can be taken. What is wrong here? That's what the customer wants right? As long as no laws were broken who are we to judge about the way they chose to fish? Who knows maybe some day they will become avid and give back way more to the sport than you can imagine. We need more part time occassional fishermen and hunters. They all pay their fees and licenses and they all will become friends, not foes, of those of us whose passion are these activities. I want them on my side, I want them financially supporting hunting and fishing, I want them writing letters and taking action when we are faced with times such as now when our gun rights are slowly being taken away. As I've said many times on this site, we are not the target audience for most of the companies who sell hunting and fishing stuff. We have to keep this in mind. If we think everyone should behave like the more experienced sportsmen and women, and be critical of them if they don't behave in the way we think they should, our sport is finished. Sorry to hijack the thread - Mark W
Mike,
I may be way off base but here's how I see it. We didn't grow up in the information generation. We grew up wearing Levis and penny loafers. Basically what your buddies wore in the neighborhood. We learned respect from our parents who learned it from their parents. A lot of that has been lost on the kids of the information generation. Today it's all about communication, the internet and image. My kids don't know a time without a cell phone, a computer and cable TV. The vast amount of information has changed society and how kids perceive the world outside of thier immediate surroundings. And with that, image has attitude. I see it every day working here at John Deere. Image is everything. From the brand new BMW's and Volvos to the fully decked out F150's pulling a $40,000 Walleye rig. Obviously this isn't the whole parking lot but you can tell who works where. Guys are still guys and we still dress office casual or in my department we're still allowed jeans. But for instance my sister is an upper manager in one of many IT disciplines here at Deere and your seeing more and more designer dresses and handbags. Many times promotion is based not only on performance but image as well. Even the factory image has changed over the years. Look at the evolution of safety equipment. Many engineering disciplines as well as the factory, just as in fishing and hunting is seeing more and more women join the ranks and so manufacturers see the need to target women. Now you can buy a pink Ruger 10/22 or Glock 9mm or a purple spinning reel and rod outfit from practicaly every manufacturer on the planet. Don't get me wrong I think this is right. If your wife or girl friend whats to go duck hunting with you she shouldn't be forced to wear a pair a waders cut for a guy. We want to be comfortable when we're hunting or fishing so why shouldn't she.
I pull into Loud Thunder Park to use the boat ramp and the amount of money I see in vehicles and boats is astounding. Product placement is key and if your not pitching to the now generation your not going to meet that bottom line your investors demand. Then I look at my 1977 14' Starcraft and my 1987 15hp evinrude and tell myself I'm not making payments on my stuff. I also don't think I come from a generation that expects or is entitled to a 6 figure income. My sister is 2 years younger than I am. I don't know what happened to her....LOL....But her career is in Information Technology....hmmm
uncle mike pierce
Active member
uncle mike pierce
Active member
Forgive me for not getting the quote and reply functions correctly used......I wanted to include Mark's post so I could reply directly to it.
In some respects, you are right Mark. If your goal is to have a picture on your office wall portraying you as a skilled fly fisherman who was wily enough to hook and land a 24" brown trout with a fly, it really doesn't matter how you caught the trout. If you get the picture and post it, and it makes others assume you stalked, made cast to, and fooled a wise old trout with a fly, you have achieved your goal. You have sold an image that may or may not have any basis in fact or your ethics. But if your original goal was to take a trophy brown using fly gear to challenge yourself and achieve a difficult feat, and you phoney up a picture rather than go home admitting you didn't succeed legally or ethically, then I would submit you sold yourself out.
It is kind of like a deer hunter who wants to have a trophy whitetail taken with bow and arrow, who, when he finds he cannot get a trophy buck close enough for bow, shoots one with a rifle, jams an arrow into the hole and then poses for the trophy photo, with bow laying across the antlers........
My concerns for this type of behavior are not coming from a holier than thou attitude, but from the multitude of negatives a focus on image and ego strokes can wreak in terms of our abilities to rationalize a lack of ethics and honesty in our hunting and fishing experiences. Duck hunters focused on killing their limit every day, merely to stroke their egos with photos and the internet posts can find themselves doing some pretty rude and even illegal things afield to achieve their goals. I know because I have been, early in my duck hunting life, encouraged by a similar competitive need to stroke my ego, to do whatever was necessary to get the pile of ducks needed to prove I was one of the "big boys of duck hunting."
There are not enough ducks available to allow every hunter in the US to kill their limit every day. Do the math, divide the number of specific specie by the number of duck hunters in the US, and the realization of how fragile this resource is gets pretty stark. If all of the US duck hunters "whacked 'em and stacked 'em" like the TV personalities....we'd be out of ducks in short order.
If waterfowling journalism was at least a bit more balanced, and focused on the experiences outside the kill shots and pile of dead geese or ducks, discussing the traditions of waterfowling, decoys, calling, duck boats, retrievers and the passing of the baton to children and grandchildren, then it would give our newest waterfowlers a chance to understand what a great tradition they are a part of...and how a duckless day can actually be one of our best in a season...........
In some respects, you are right Mark. If your goal is to have a picture on your office wall portraying you as a skilled fly fisherman who was wily enough to hook and land a 24" brown trout with a fly, it really doesn't matter how you caught the trout. If you get the picture and post it, and it makes others assume you stalked, made cast to, and fooled a wise old trout with a fly, you have achieved your goal. You have sold an image that may or may not have any basis in fact or your ethics. But if your original goal was to take a trophy brown using fly gear to challenge yourself and achieve a difficult feat, and you phoney up a picture rather than go home admitting you didn't succeed legally or ethically, then I would submit you sold yourself out.
It is kind of like a deer hunter who wants to have a trophy whitetail taken with bow and arrow, who, when he finds he cannot get a trophy buck close enough for bow, shoots one with a rifle, jams an arrow into the hole and then poses for the trophy photo, with bow laying across the antlers........
My concerns for this type of behavior are not coming from a holier than thou attitude, but from the multitude of negatives a focus on image and ego strokes can wreak in terms of our abilities to rationalize a lack of ethics and honesty in our hunting and fishing experiences. Duck hunters focused on killing their limit every day, merely to stroke their egos with photos and the internet posts can find themselves doing some pretty rude and even illegal things afield to achieve their goals. I know because I have been, early in my duck hunting life, encouraged by a similar competitive need to stroke my ego, to do whatever was necessary to get the pile of ducks needed to prove I was one of the "big boys of duck hunting."
There are not enough ducks available to allow every hunter in the US to kill their limit every day. Do the math, divide the number of specific specie by the number of duck hunters in the US, and the realization of how fragile this resource is gets pretty stark. If all of the US duck hunters "whacked 'em and stacked 'em" like the TV personalities....we'd be out of ducks in short order.
If waterfowling journalism was at least a bit more balanced, and focused on the experiences outside the kill shots and pile of dead geese or ducks, discussing the traditions of waterfowling, decoys, calling, duck boats, retrievers and the passing of the baton to children and grandchildren, then it would give our newest waterfowlers a chance to understand what a great tradition they are a part of...and how a duckless day can actually be one of our best in a season...........
Mike, I suspect that I'm nearly 100% in line with you as far as ethics, love of tradition and asethetics of the sport, but I think you are barking up the wrong tree in your last paragraph above. I've read all the oldies and they were just as much obsessed with body count as the current writers/personalities. Yes, the oldies do once and a while comment on the great duckless day, but for the most part it was about the shooting. I see little discussion of calls, boats, dogs, guns, other than as tools to aid in the hunt in the old timeys.
I'm not saying the ethics that we share are wrong, but going back to how the old timeys wrote about it is missing the mark - I think the oldies parallel the current media very well - couldn't sell books on susnsets to hunters then and can't sell videos on sunsets now. To sell copy now or then, it was all about the kill.
I have no expectation that some new video will capture my experiance. Killing ducks on videos or in magazines is strictly a commercial venture - always has been.
BillS
Well-known member
I agree with Tod, I have a member here since the late 90's and its the first and somedays only forum that I look at and read. becuase so many of the other members have like views on hunting. I have read a lot of the old timers stories and accounts, I have my favorites and choose to hunt in a manner that fits it with some of these writers. But also remember that many that were writing during that time actually used pen names, because there opinions on conservaton and ethics were not widely supported. While I don't wear black hoodies, boosting of shooting limits complete with pictures on tailgates. This mentality was that of the masses back in the day.(except the hoodies) If I was living and writing back then I would have fit in with the likes of Frank Forrester and would have used a pen name becuase my opinions and syle of hunting I preffered wouldn't have been widely accepted
This pic below is one of many old pics one can find on the internet. Even the largest pickup 100 years later wouldn't fit this bag limit on its tailgate.
View attachment devil.jpg
How about this innocent picture, notice what the middle guy is holding. This isn't the ethics that I subscribe too hunting 100 yrs later.
View attachment dry lake ND 1909.jpg
This pic below is one of many old pics one can find on the internet. Even the largest pickup 100 years later wouldn't fit this bag limit on its tailgate.
View attachment devil.jpg
How about this innocent picture, notice what the middle guy is holding. This isn't the ethics that I subscribe too hunting 100 yrs later.
View attachment dry lake ND 1909.jpg
Mark W
Well-known member
Hey Mike - sure not trying to have an arguement just a different point of view. Is there a snob factor in thinking by some - I think so. Not saying it is you or anyone on this site, there are just different levels of expereince and how folks enjoy the sport.
As far as taking a limit or the biggest or whatever. I was there at the beginning of my journey into this wonderful sport of ours. I'd also be willing to bet that when you first started it was about numbers of ducks shot. Over time, and with many years under my belt hunting, it isn't about the numbers but more about the time spend afield doing what I love best. It took time for me to get to this point.
I still hunt with a bunch of guys where it is about numbers. They get out hunting 1-2 times/year and they want to shoot ducks. I enjoy hunting with them as much as I do hunting with my friends who are the hardcore hunters who are more like myself. In my experience, I have significantly more friends who want to shoot ducks than friends who enjoy getting outdoors. They spend just as much money as I do and they make sure that those who represent them know how they feel about topics that may impact their hunting and fishing. I want them on my side. I don't want to disparage them.
As far as taking a picture - I don't care. I can't control it or them so it is what it is. I have a buddy who has a real nice picture of a pile of crappies on a table - implies he caught these fish. I know he didn't cause I was with him and I caught those fish. Does it bother me - not really. I find it rather humerous actually. People ask him about the picture and he goes into a long story. It gets others interested in joining him and another sportsman is born.
Anyway, I believe we need to encourage more opeople to hunt and fish no matter how they choose to do so. As long as they are legal, respecting the resources, and spending money, they are our friends, not folks we should look down upon.
Just one of many opinions.
Mark W
Vince Pagliaroli
Well-known member
Ya..........no one drinks while hunting these days. Thats why I find beer cans, bottles, pint & fifth bottles, out in the field and woods. Plus Energy Drink cans. Must be from 100 years ago.......
uncle mike pierce
Active member
Ted, Mark, Vince, Ed, Wispete, et al.......You are all right, and that is one of the things I love about this site. The diversity of viewpoint and experinces keep us all honest, and able to laugh at ourselves. I wanted to start a conversation, and it seems I succeeded.
There have been and are sportsmen, slobs, dedicated conservationists, and game violators in every generation of waterfowlers I have been privileged to know and read about. A lot about the good old days was not so good is a mouthful of truth. So is, there was a lot of good in the good old days, such as:
Perhaps I get overly romantic when talking about the good old days because I didn't live the life of a bayman, and in the warmth of a midwestern home, I wanted to....... While the logical side of me admits that most of their kids would have preferred to live my life, it is hard for me not to envy those who lived a life so connected to the waters, marshes, and natural resources..........
Be that as it may, I appreciate all of your viewpoints as they help me keep perspective on mine........that's why a lot of my posts do, and will continue to have one or more questions I ask of the members.
Thanks........this site has given me the fire and inspiration to be a waterfowler again, something I thought I had forever lost.
Mike
There have been and are sportsmen, slobs, dedicated conservationists, and game violators in every generation of waterfowlers I have been privileged to know and read about. A lot about the good old days was not so good is a mouthful of truth. So is, there was a lot of good in the good old days, such as:
- Most average people could afford to waterfowl (if they could afford it at all) only at locations near their home, so their actions affected their own future. If they overgunned marshes and gunned after dark, they quickly suffered the consequences. Hence the rise of organizations like the "anti-duskers league", the concept of game refuges, and other groups that aimed to limit sportmens' actions so that good gunning could be had throughout the season.
- Similarly, organizations like DU came into being, along with the Federal Duck Stamp, and average sports, no matter how meager their income could support the future of their sport.
- Many average waterfowlers had to make their own boats, decoys, and gear because they could not afford to buy them retail, or even used from other hunters
- Most average waterfowlers (back then) ate the ducks they killed, and would have listed "eating the game I kill" as an important part of the experience
- Much of our waterfowling heritage came from watermen/baymen who duck hunted for the market, commercially fished, oystered, and otherwise made a living from harvesting resources. Although given to excesses to provide for their own families, they too suffered the consequences of over fishing and over gunning their areas
- and on, and on.........
Perhaps I get overly romantic when talking about the good old days because I didn't live the life of a bayman, and in the warmth of a midwestern home, I wanted to....... While the logical side of me admits that most of their kids would have preferred to live my life, it is hard for me not to envy those who lived a life so connected to the waters, marshes, and natural resources..........
Be that as it may, I appreciate all of your viewpoints as they help me keep perspective on mine........that's why a lot of my posts do, and will continue to have one or more questions I ask of the members.
Thanks........this site has given me the fire and inspiration to be a waterfowler again, something I thought I had forever lost.
Mike
Mark W
Well-known member
I think you hit it with the comment above but in an opposite way. I think the majority of people have less time today to duck hunt and this is why it is more about numbers. There are so many other things in life that take up our time that the few moments that most can get out to hunt is very limited and maybe this is why there seems to be more emphasis on numbers. Mayeb it is the point in time in which we live as well - not sure.
I know this info exists somewhere. I'd love to see how many days afield an average hunter spends now verses 10, 20, 50 years ago.
Mark W
Vince Pagliaroli
Well-known member
Welcome back Mike. It IS what you make it. Many of my most memorable days, are ones when I just watched ducks over my decoys, and never fired a shot. Seems like the more years that I put
into our way of life........the less I want to take out of it bird, and limit, wise. But when I'm hungry for a Duck Dinner, look out!!!! It's been a wonderful way of life, and living.
"the hunt is all about the primal drive: finding food while not becoming food" - Tom Ohaus
into our way of life........the less I want to take out of it bird, and limit, wise. But when I'm hungry for a Duck Dinner, look out!!!! It's been a wonderful way of life, and living.
"the hunt is all about the primal drive: finding food while not becoming food" - Tom Ohaus
Eric Dellamater
Well-known member
now that sentance is music to my ears....we lose too many to death, attrition, squabbles and other petty issues...
how about a thread with some of YOUR decoys you carved!?!?!
uncle mike pierce
Active member
I'll post up some cork bobtails I made in 2012. They are not great as art, but they work like carzy on the water......
I made "gift" gunning decoys from 1997 until 2011, then my son talked me into making som actual gunners to hunt over. That and the fact I took a couple of classes from Keith Mueller on oil painting techniques for decoys.
My work this year (besides fly fishing) will be:
completing the wood duck decoy for Mueller's UP class in June 2013
Making 2 dozen foam flatties
Making a wood duck gunning pair for a DU banquet in medford WI
Making a pair of Richardson's Canadian geese for a friend to select one as payment for two richardson's study skins
Making 18 Saint CLair's flats style black ducks, 10 to give away at Christmas and 8 to add to the gunning rig
( I like to dream big!)
I'll get a pic of the corks posted up, as they are truly the only actual "gunning" decoys I have ever made.....
Mike
I made "gift" gunning decoys from 1997 until 2011, then my son talked me into making som actual gunners to hunt over. That and the fact I took a couple of classes from Keith Mueller on oil painting techniques for decoys.
My work this year (besides fly fishing) will be:
completing the wood duck decoy for Mueller's UP class in June 2013
Making 2 dozen foam flatties
Making a wood duck gunning pair for a DU banquet in medford WI
Making a pair of Richardson's Canadian geese for a friend to select one as payment for two richardson's study skins
Making 18 Saint CLair's flats style black ducks, 10 to give away at Christmas and 8 to add to the gunning rig
( I like to dream big!)
I'll get a pic of the corks posted up, as they are truly the only actual "gunning" decoys I have ever made.....
Mike
uncle mike pierce
Active member
It has been brought to my attention that I misstated a gift decoy as a "payment."
A friend was kind enough to give me the skins off of two smaller Canadian Geese he had shot, knowing as a carver I could use them, and if he didn't give me the skins (after breasting the geese out), that they would just go in the garbage can with the guts..... He never requested anything for them, and I never offered anything for them, before or after they were shot. He just offered them to me, and I said thank you, and mentally noted I should do something nice for a person who has many times given me fly tying instruction, fly fishing instruction, and now, two goose skins to further my carving hobby.
When I said I was doing him a carving as a "payment" as part of a post on this site, I misspoke. The carving was strictly a gift meant as a thank you for his friendship over the years. It just so happened that the skins gave me an inspiration to use my talents to make a very personal gift related to a sport he loves.
In our legalistic and litigious world, language such as "payment" can be misconstrued, and I am sorry for that poor choice of words. When people share with me, or do me favors, I try to give back something to show appreciation. No contract or quid pro quo.......Just one friend reacting to the kindness of another.
I would not attempt to buy or sell any feathers, skins, or other parts of any birds or game animals. I am aware that to do so is illegal. My language was poor, my actions and motives were not.
Mike
A friend was kind enough to give me the skins off of two smaller Canadian Geese he had shot, knowing as a carver I could use them, and if he didn't give me the skins (after breasting the geese out), that they would just go in the garbage can with the guts..... He never requested anything for them, and I never offered anything for them, before or after they were shot. He just offered them to me, and I said thank you, and mentally noted I should do something nice for a person who has many times given me fly tying instruction, fly fishing instruction, and now, two goose skins to further my carving hobby.
When I said I was doing him a carving as a "payment" as part of a post on this site, I misspoke. The carving was strictly a gift meant as a thank you for his friendship over the years. It just so happened that the skins gave me an inspiration to use my talents to make a very personal gift related to a sport he loves.
In our legalistic and litigious world, language such as "payment" can be misconstrued, and I am sorry for that poor choice of words. When people share with me, or do me favors, I try to give back something to show appreciation. No contract or quid pro quo.......Just one friend reacting to the kindness of another.
I would not attempt to buy or sell any feathers, skins, or other parts of any birds or game animals. I am aware that to do so is illegal. My language was poor, my actions and motives were not.
Mike
Mark W
Well-known member
Wow, legal disclaimers on DBHF. Kind of scary. Can I be sued for upsetting someone on this site? Better hire an atorney now.
I wondered Mike if you may have mis spoke about paying for game. I took the term payment to mean repaying the kindness nothing more or less.
Mark W
I wondered Mike if you may have mis spoke about paying for game. I took the term payment to mean repaying the kindness nothing more or less.
Mark W