Duck ID determined by Wisconsin DNR
- Thread starter Mark W
- Start date
Wispete
Well-known member
Mark, Not that I wouldn't like your motor.( : ) Not a lawyer, so free advice ?
The case against you is weak. Three choices Plead guilty, plead innocent, or no contest. What ever, show up in court.
Let the prosecution present their case, if they do, they may not. If you don't show up they win. More than one case has been settled on the steps of the court house because the defendant showed up. Particularly if it is a weak case. The prosecutor doesn't like to lose cases. It looks bad for them.
Lets say they actually take it to court. They will present there evidence and witnesses. Then you tell the judge what you told us. Be polite and dress well, soft spoken. No anger no emotion just tell the truth. That is refreshing to a judge.
I wouldn't worry about the CO he is just doing his job as he was trained and your relationship with him will not change and he will probably be your best witness. We do not know the politics of the court. The judge may not like the CO ? or the Prosecutor and if it is a weak case may just throw it out or court costs. I think you have a good case.
The case against you is weak. Three choices Plead guilty, plead innocent, or no contest. What ever, show up in court.
Let the prosecution present their case, if they do, they may not. If you don't show up they win. More than one case has been settled on the steps of the court house because the defendant showed up. Particularly if it is a weak case. The prosecutor doesn't like to lose cases. It looks bad for them.
Lets say they actually take it to court. They will present there evidence and witnesses. Then you tell the judge what you told us. Be polite and dress well, soft spoken. No anger no emotion just tell the truth. That is refreshing to a judge.
I wouldn't worry about the CO he is just doing his job as he was trained and your relationship with him will not change and he will probably be your best witness. We do not know the politics of the court. The judge may not like the CO ? or the Prosecutor and if it is a weak case may just throw it out or court costs. I think you have a good case.
Tom Scholberg
Well-known member
Oh come on now Mark, And you said you wouldn't hunt with me after some of my missadventures. At least I haven't been arrested yet. Seriously I don't know what I would do in your case. It really sucks because any duck hunter that hasn't ever missidentified a duck on the wing is either tooo young or lying. I don't understand why the CO even pushed the point after not being able to identify it IN HAND!!!!!!!! W.T.Hell? Has anyone spoken for your gun yet? The very best of luck on this one.
Darin Clark
Active member
Mark
I'll throw in my $0.02 worth. I generally refrain from second guessing another officer, but here it goes. The bird being a female is only half what he needs to prove. He also needs to prove that it is in dead a wild mallard and not a domestic or cross. I personally won't hold a hunter to a higher standard then myself. If I can't positively ID the duck in the field I give the hunter the benefit of the doubt. The fact the the biologist had to resort to a method that the average hunter is not trained to perform lends itself to you case. If you fight it, I would certainly try to get a "normal" wild hen mallard to present as a comparison to explain why you believed it was not a hen mallard. If it is a domestic cross, I've always been told it doesn't count toward the bag limit. I don't know if they can meet the beyond a resonable doubt level of proof for both sex and species. Take you ID books and a real bird and explain why you think it is not a hen mallard. Best of luck
I'll throw in my $0.02 worth. I generally refrain from second guessing another officer, but here it goes. The bird being a female is only half what he needs to prove. He also needs to prove that it is in dead a wild mallard and not a domestic or cross. I personally won't hold a hunter to a higher standard then myself. If I can't positively ID the duck in the field I give the hunter the benefit of the doubt. The fact the the biologist had to resort to a method that the average hunter is not trained to perform lends itself to you case. If you fight it, I would certainly try to get a "normal" wild hen mallard to present as a comparison to explain why you believed it was not a hen mallard. If it is a domestic cross, I've always been told it doesn't count toward the bag limit. I don't know if they can meet the beyond a resonable doubt level of proof for both sex and species. Take you ID books and a real bird and explain why you think it is not a hen mallard. Best of luck
Rick Pierce
Well-known member
Heck yeah, go to court.
Get photos of a hen mallard, and a mounted specimen. Get the former CO from that area as a character witness to attest to your abilities, etc.
The fact that they had to sex the bird in a lab, and that the new CO could not definitively ID the bird as to either species or sex in the field should make a reasonable case in court that the CO acted out of caution, but his actions and the citation were not necessary.
Get photos of a hen mallard, and a mounted specimen. Get the former CO from that area as a character witness to attest to your abilities, etc.
The fact that they had to sex the bird in a lab, and that the new CO could not definitively ID the bird as to either species or sex in the field should make a reasonable case in court that the CO acted out of caution, but his actions and the citation were not necessary.
Rutgers
Well-known member
I'd go ahead and fight it. I would begin scouring the web for pictures of hen Mallards in all different stages of plumage and get permission to print and use them. I think for court, it is best to break things down to scientific terms such as average length, weight, bill length and width (get the Lemaster booklet) etc etc. I would request to be able to photograph, weigh, and take measurements. Like I said, pay particular attention to those things that don't change once a bird reaches adult size. Perhaps someone more adapt at the biology end of thins could point out a list of what some of the good ones are. Good Luck
Actually... I would throw the long ball.
Send this whole string to the Game Warden and ask him to review... it's duck positive, shows what kind of guy you are, what kind of guys you hang out with and reveals the story in a very fact-based, unbiased light.
Go for it.
A.
Send this whole string to the Game Warden and ask him to review... it's duck positive, shows what kind of guy you are, what kind of guys you hang out with and reveals the story in a very fact-based, unbiased light.
Go for it.
A.
Lee Harker
Well-known member
I wouldn't tip my hand by doing that. Let them give their story, take notes about what they say that differs from what they told you. If the glove don't fit, they must acquit.
Shermie
Well-known member
I hope you make an example out of the system ,as i have just followed the links to the the pictures of the mallards and everyother kind of duck on the planet crossbreeds hybreds etc.
Now ifin i was a bettin man one could show those pictures with out identifcation and ask the co to point out what duck is what and hed be wrong ..
and i know you all love your mallards but i hate them they are ruining our black ducks up here ..and from the links all the species of duck are not safe.
this gergarious duck must be culled ....to save the gene pool of all species of duck..and to use this as a line of defence may help you ,good luck bud
Now ifin i was a bettin man one could show those pictures with out identifcation and ask the co to point out what duck is what and hed be wrong ..
and i know you all love your mallards but i hate them they are ruining our black ducks up here ..and from the links all the species of duck are not safe.
this gergarious duck must be culled ....to save the gene pool of all species of duck..and to use this as a line of defence may help you ,good luck bud
Jay Anglin
Well-known member
Once again, a waste of taxpayer dollars and state resources due to an anal-retentive law enforcement officer. You normally don't see this kind of BS from the CO's who I consider the finest of them all and much more practical typically. I can't imagine many state cops would sneak into a marsh and walk into a group of guys holding loaded 12 gauges with a smile on his face.
I see this charge being dismissed. In the courts it's "is" or "isn't" not "probably". This bird sounds like a domestic cross or maybe a pen raised flighted mallard. We get a few around here and they are always runts and have poor plummage characteristics.
Another resource for a witness would be a professor. I would think an independant ID from a college prof that teaches ornithology is in order and depending on that opinion a court testimonial. But, like Steve said it'd help if you posted some pics here. The worst we could say is "pay the ticket Mark".
I see this charge being dismissed. In the courts it's "is" or "isn't" not "probably". This bird sounds like a domestic cross or maybe a pen raised flighted mallard. We get a few around here and they are always runts and have poor plummage characteristics.
Another resource for a witness would be a professor. I would think an independant ID from a college prof that teaches ornithology is in order and depending on that opinion a court testimonial. But, like Steve said it'd help if you posted some pics here. The worst we could say is "pay the ticket Mark".
Lee Harker
Well-known member
After court, when it is thrown out, I would want to know whether this bird was utilized. Seems like a wanton waste charge if it's not.