Expensive custom tank for BBIII

James Dalton

James Dalton

Member
I have talked to Pete McMiller and Pete Markantes who have gone to RDS to manufacture a custom tank for the Black Brant III. Pete gave me the part number and I contacted RDS for a quote. $323 + 15 for S/H. Wow! Pete Markantes stated that he paid aprox. $175 + S/H for the orig design. I really want a built in tank, but am not sure about the steep price.

Pete McMiller, I used your part number because I liked the sound of the modifications you made. What I am looking for is justification for paying such a high price. Convince me that I should get this. Pros and Cons. How good is the design? How well does it work? Does it help keep the BBIII well balanced? Any more information that you could provide would be great.

If there is anyone else with other options or suggestions please feel free. Thanks!
 
The price of AL has skyrocketed.

Andrew made a simple shelf for his portable tank that was both elegant and simple. It allowed him to get the weight forward and have the convenience of a portable tank.

You can also buy off the shelf plastic permanent tanks, but finding one with the dimensions you like may be tricky-ish.

You could find a good local aluminum weldor and have him weld up a tank for you.

Charlie
 
I mostly use a 3 gallon plastic tank in my BB2 and it is under the side deck clear to the back. Sometimes I use a 6 gallon if I know I'll be going a long way or a few days in an area where gas stations aren't close to camp. I like to use my gas and get more..keeps it fresh that way.400 bucks is crazy to spend on a small tank.I'd use that money to go somewhere where there are ducks.
 
James,

As Charlie said, the price of Aluminum has gone way up since I got my tank so I think the price you were quoted is likely accurate. I'd go with a plastic portable tank before I'd have just anyone weld up a tank for me. There is a lot more to my fuel tank than just a welded box - like internal baffles, bottom pick-up with a screen/filter, fuel level sensor and sending unit that actually work and is accurate and has been pressure tested.

I wanted a built in tank because I don't like hassleing with portable tanks. I'll not have a boat again that doesn't have a built in tank. The convenience is worth it to me.

As far as balancing out the boat, well yes, it does help that to some degree after all you have 9 gallons of gas at maybe 70 lbs way up forward. Understand that with the length vs width ratio of the BB3 at 2.6 that balancing the load is a bit more problematic. The boat is very, very stable because of that ratio but is more sensitive to load placement fore and aft than a boat with a larger L/W ratio. Now, I'm not talking you and your dog and a dozen decoys. When I load up it's myself, my buddy, a big Chessie and up to 8 dozen decoys plus all our gear. When I am by myself loading is really a non issue.

Good luck with your decision,

Pete
 
I have talked to Pete McMiller and Pete Markantes who have gone to RDS to manufacture a custom tank for the Black Brant III. Pete gave me the part number and I contacted RDS for a quote. $323 + 15 for S/H. Wow! Pete Markantes stated that he paid aprox. $175 + S/H for the orig design. I really want a built in tank, but am not sure about the steep price.

Pete McMiller, I used your part number because I liked the sound of the modifications you made. What I am looking for is justification for paying such a high price. Convince me that I should get this. Pros and Cons. How good is the design? How well does it work? Does it help keep the BBIII well balanced? Any more information that you could provide would be great.

If there is anyone else with other options or suggestions please feel free. Thanks!
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I don't like internal tanks for little boats. A portable can be changed out or removed if problems and if you build the boat can be well anchored with the addition of a shelf ot simple strut, depanding on the tank design. I'd rather buzz to the gas station with a portable and fill it than take a 5 gallon.

A fixed tank changes your vessel classification in the eyes of the USCG and possibly your insurance. If you boat somewhere it is likely you would get boarded that is something else to consider and in my opinion something to consider.

t
 
Tod,

I like your rationale.

Tell me more, please. What is the change in CG classification part of it? Does one need to run with additional required equipment?

Just curious since my recent swap put me in a boat with an internal tank. The CG has a station up her on Lake Champlain and probably on the lower Hudson where I run occasionally so I would like to know, so I can keep it legit.

Hows the garage, wiring, doors, etc going? Any pictures so we can live vicariously?

Thanks,
Charlie
 
I've never seen any information on classification dependent on a gas tank for small boats nor has my insurance company every asked if my tank is internal or portable. Any information would be appreciated.

Pete
 
Tod,

I like your rationale.

Tell me more, please. What is the change in CG classification part of it? Does one need to run with additional required equipment?

Just curious since my recent swap put me in a boat with an internal tank. The CG has a station up her on Lake Champlain and probably on the lower Hudson where I run occasionally so I would like to know, so I can keep it legit.

Hows the garage, wiring, doors, etc going? Any pictures so we can live vicariously?

Thanks,
Charlie
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The change in classification I was thinking of was that regarding fire extinguishers. I know some will say... "I have an extinguisher on board". Well that doesn't cut it, if you have a fixed tank you need an fire extinguisher - there for you need the proper extinguisher, mounted in what is considered the proper place with USCG approved bracket (the extinguishers are also white - you can't paint them, and you can't put them out of sight so they are concealed). The extinguisher can't have any sign of corrosion or cosmetic damage, if it does you dont' pass. If you have ever been boarded, especially by a crew with someone in training, you will appreciate being able to say - "I don't need an extinguisher, but have one just in case".

USCG rules:

Fire Extinguishers are required on boats when any of the following conditions exist:
  • Inboard engines are installed.
  • There are closed compartments and compartments under seats where portable fuel tanks may be stored.
  • There are double bottoms not sealed to the hull or which are not completely filled with flotation materials.
  • There are closed living spaces.
  • There are closed stowage compartments in which combustible or flammable materials are stored.
  • There are permanently installed fuel tanks. (Fuel tanks secured so they cannot be moved in case of fire or other emergency are considered permanently installed. There are no gallon capacity limits to determine if a fuel tank is portable. If the weight of a fuel tank is such that persons on board cannot move it, the Coast Guard considers it permanently installed.)
Fire Extinguisher Maintenance
Inspect extinguishers monthly to make sure that:
  • Seals and tamper indicators are not broken or missing.
  • Pressure gauges or indicators read in the operable range. (Note: CO2 extinguishers do not have gauges.)
  • There is no obvious physical damage, rust, corrosion, leakage or clogged nozzles.
  • Weigh extinguishers annually to assure that the minimum weight is as stated on the extinguisher label.
Fire extinguishers that do not satisfy the above requirements or that have been partially emptied must be replaced or taken to a qualified fire extinguisher servicing company for recharge.
 
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Hows the garage, wiring, doors, etc going? Any pictures so we can live vicariously?

Thanks,
Charlie
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Charlie,

Making progress.... On the barn - that is on hold until we get the old house sold, but I know what I want and how much $$$$$$ (old house is under offer and we are working on getting the building inspection negotioation done, so we can proceed). On the new shop, I stripped one wall to the studs and have it wired and sheetrock is going up. this is the wall with workbench and hand tool storage and chop saw, so getting it done will reduce a lot of clutter. I know where I'm going to put the sub panel in that wall, I just have to do it. So progress, yes, nothing spectacular. I'm going to wait to start on the other wall and close in the 2 garage bays (one completely and one with a big double door (7'-8'?) until after the barn in is and inspected).
 
Tod,

Thanks!

If that is all, I'm all set. I'm a paranoid ex-firefighter so extinguishers are a no brainer (Eddie - no smart comments here about my propane heater flambe!).

I have the standard white Kiddie marine extinguisher mounted on the front of the console on the new rig. Never occured to me that the former owner actually put it there for a reason... I always kept mine in the locker by the console. Now I know better.

I'll pick up a new one next time I'm in a place that sells them, just in case... Might be nice to have two of them.

Thank you.

Charlie
 
PS. The other reason I've had one on the boat, they are required on boats in my size range (maybe over 16'?).

Neat chart that I need to review before I get out on the water:

uscg chart

http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/fedreqs/equ_refchart.htm

The state police here also inspect vessels for compliance with CG regs here in VT. I've been checked a couple of times at the launch... So you may need to be up to snuff, even if you are not on a CG monitored body of water.
 
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http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal-pod.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/pod-link.jsp_A&_DAV=null-cat420004_TGP&rid=&indexId=cat420004&navAction=push&masterpathid=&navCount=0&parentType=index&parentId=cat420004&id=0000958&cmCat=netcon&cm_ven=netcon&cm_cat=N/A&cm_pla=N/A&cm_ite=netcon



Check out this Cabelas page. I too wanted a built in, but when I discovered these "flat" tanks I got inspired.

Build it on a "shelf" - as Charlie pointed out. You get the dual benefit of having a great anchor stowage under the shelf. Fits snug as a bug.

FYI - I bought the 9 gallon.
 
I asked you to convince me to buy the tank! HAHAHA. Kidding. Actually I really like what you sent me Andrew. I will definitely be looking more at the plastic option. Do you have any photos of your fuel shelf that you wouldn't mind sharing? Not wanting to steal it, just jumpstart my "creative ingenuity".

Pete/Charlie - I never even thought about the price of aluminum going up. Makes perfect sense. I also didn't realize that all of that stuff went into the tanks that RDS manufactures. I am seeing the justification for the price now.

Tod - My brother is in the USCG and told me that I would need to carry a fire extinguisher but never mentioned all the other requirements that come along with that. I will be speaking to him about that later! Thanks for the link by the way. I have added it to my favorites.
 
James... please steal it, that's what this forum is for. Sharing ideas and choosing the best ones. My problem with posting pics is that my pics are large size and I can't / don't know how to shrink them. Digital camera programs are the pits... try searching for help on "shrinking photos"... nothing comes up...

I do have pics. I just bought a brand new Apple and all my old boat photos are here on it somewhere, just not organized. I'll try to email a pic to you later on today.
 
James, email me. My address is in my profile. I see that yours isn't.

I have a few pics of the construction of the shelf.
 
gashose.JPG

Ok, I'm sure that this pic posting thing is finally working for me due to the Pope's arrival.

Anyway,

The first pic shows the shelf as it is first installed. The second pic shows the shelf with the "hardware". I have one simple bungy holding the tank down. The bungy attaches to 2 stainless steel eye bolts.

The shelf has a lip that goes around the entire tank (I bought the tank first and custom built the shelf around the tank). When I fill the tank, I unplug the gas hose, and lift slightly and pull the tank out... when the tank is full, I kinda lift a little and shove it back, it's surprisingly easy.

A 9 gallon tank once full weighs about 60 lbs... and I designed it to be easy to push back in.

What I like about this shelf is that it adds order to the bow space and makes it useful. In other words, the shelf and tank hold thing in around the sides (line, life jackets, etc.) and as I mentioned previously it is great for the anchor. The anchor doesn't bounce one bit.

Hope this works for you Jim.

Good luck...

Andrew
 
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One more thing...

I drilled big holes in the shelf itself. All (most) poly tanks and hoses permeate, meaning that gas escapes constantly. So I thought I'd add the holes to allow for more even air flow. It's probably nutty, but what the hell.

I did NOT epoxy the shelf to the two "legs"... rather I used 2 stainless screws on either side. I figured that I'll one day want to remove the shelf to get to the bow. You never know.

A.
 
Ok... one more thing.

You can't see the fuel gauge under there. So, I use a flashlight and put the light against the tank and I can see the gas sloshing around.
 
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