glassing in a friends garage questions??

Chris S.

Chris S.

Well-known member
As some of you know by my other posts, I am rebuilding a BBSB. I live in an apartment and have had to do a lot of the work outside. When it comes to doing the glassing I will be using a friends garage. Other then putting down plastic or a tarp to protect the floor of the garage what other things should i do to make sure the garage looks the same when I leave? Also are fans a good idea to have in the garage to use as a way to ventilate the epoxy fumes. How bad does the epoxy smell when glassing? Is it going to smell real bad in the garage? Any other tips on the best way to make sure my friend will not regret letting me use his garage. Thanks Chris
 
Chris - I'd get a roll of Tar-Paper if I were you. Rather than a tarp. Easier to clean up IMO, and won't flop around on the floor as much. Tar-Paper will lay nice, and flat, and will keep the floor clean. Otherwise just some cheap box-fans. The Fumes will go down quickly once things are cured, and especially when the project is done. It's easy to get used to the smells, and other People will tell you it's bad when you don't think much of it usually. I would just try to work quick, and as long as you're prepping them for what's coming you shouldn't have any problems. If you're spraying anything be sure to move Cars, and other stuff so you don't gunk any of that up...

Good luck.
 
If you are using epoxy resin and not polyester resin you will not be dealing with fumes. If you are coating that nice old boat with polyester resin after spending all this time removing the old delaminated polyester resin you have not been paying attention.

I have used epoxy resin from WEST, RAKA, and US Composites and none of them have fumes. They do have a certain smell to them like a mild ammonia smell, but nothing to drive you out of an enclosed space...unless you are one of those bubble boys that can't be around anything without an epi pen to save your life.

I tape down resin paper from the hardware store. It is for protecting floors and other things during construction. You could also use heavy duty craft paper. Just tape it down so that it does not slide under your feet.

You will also find yourself needing a pair of disposable shoes since what ever you wear will get epoxy drips on them. Disposable tyvek suits or other clothing to leave behind also helps. No matter how hard to try not to you will end up leaning over the boat to do something around the keel and cover your belly with wet epoxy. I think it is just part of boat building. Don't leave the clothes in a pile or they will be an epoxied pile the next day you try to use them.
 
Ray I have bought a gallon of medium cure epoxy from US Composites to do the filling/fairing. I will be using the slow cure for the rest of the boat from US Composites. NO polyester resin here after seeing how bad it sticks to wood and how easy it pulled off my sneakbox i would not use it for wetting out cloth on a wood boat EVER thanks for the info.
 
I would use an organic respirator to protect your lungs from sensitization or outright irritation. A fan would be unnecessary with a respirator. I'd have a squeeze/spray bottle of 50/50 vinegar/water for washing yourself of epoxy. Denatured alcohol is good for smoothing filits. Wet a finger for small filits or a fuzzy tennis ball for large filits and smooth the joint. This will save alot of sanding/reapplying/sanding.
 
I like the tennis ball idea. what do you wet it with and is it better to have a smooth ball instead of a fuzzy one?
Trip.
 
Denatured alcohol on thickened epoxy, not the glass wetting epoxy. I don't know which nap would work best as I haven't tried the tennis ball thing. I did do the finger tip thing but it was late in my build when I got the tip and only then did I wish that I would have known about it when smoothing my main filits. I tried all kinds of trimmed scrapers, CDs, etc. to make good fillits and did alot of rework to get them smooth. The tennis ball retains the same radius no matter what way it is rotated unlike a redius cut into a flat scraper. The alcohol thing works after the epoxy has set but before it gets too hard. You should be able to dent it with your fingernail or finger tip. You could perhaps use a tennis ball to spread your initial filits, but again, I haven't tried it. I imagine the ball "funneling" the excess epoxy into the fillit rather than making those ice cream-like splits that a scraper does when it "pulls" the epoxy along.
 
Thanks, that sounds cool. I can give both a try. Have plenty around as any retriever owner does! Trip.
 
If you don't have them already, get a box of 100 latex exam gloves.

A gallon of plain vinager and a bunch of rags for cleaning up uncured epoxy. If it cures you you will need a chisel.

Respirator if you are going sand in the garage though if at all possible wheel the boat outside before sanding and let it blow away but still wear the resirator. The epoxy dust will get into everything, including your lungs - not good.

Use the yellow mini sponge rollers from the paint store to spread epoxy and for making your filets look good. You don't clean them, throw away. Get a stack of disposable plastic plates for putting your thickened epoxy mixture on while you work. The thinner you spread it out the slower it will cure. Keep it in a 2" deep clump in the bottom of a cup and it will kick over real fast. If your epoxy mixture starts to smoke - it's too late, set it outside to finish cooking off and start a new batch. Remember the hotter the ambient temp is the faster the epoxy is going to kick over.
 
For doing fillets you can cut a circle of stiff plastic with a hole saw and then mount in on a stick. Make up several of different diameters. Use tongue depressors for small fillets Once the fillets are pretty stiff light brush them with lacquer thinner. That will smooth them out quite nicely. Lacquer thinner contains epoxy thinner and is quite usefull for cleanup. You might want to consider buying the boat building book from the folks who make WEST systems epoxy. It contains a wealth of information.
 
The guys are right, barely any noticeable odor. West smells a little more than most, but still nothing like polyester.A buddy of mine once glassed a boat with polyester in his dads garage. For the rest of the year everything that came out of their freezer tasted like polyester. They especially liked the Bryers rockyroad/polyester icecream. The people who sell the tyvek suits usually sell tyvek booties you slip on over your shoes. They also sell head socks for when you are grinding, keeps the stuff out of your ears scalp etc. If you can why not drag the boat outside to do the grinding and sanding, bring it back in for the more sensitive resin work.If you grind it inside the dust will get everywhere and take forever to clean.
 
Forgot about the fillets(did I spell that right?) in my shop we lay down miles of fillets on a 6o to 80 foot boat. My guys use PVC pipe they keep a box of different sizes, wipe them off with denatured alcohol and a rag, they last a long time I see black tape around one end so you dont pick the pipe up by the dirty end in the heat of battle!
 
If you don't have them already, get a box of 100 latex exam gloves.
Click to expand...
Pete, I am not splitting hairs, but NITRILE gloves (blue ones) are better. Less chemical permeable with less skin absorption and the nice thing is they are thicker so the tear less. cost difference is barely noticeable. I also have a TERRIBLE reaction to the powders they use to help "slip them on" actually a pretty severe contact dermatitis where my hands cracked and bled, really odd oozing sort of deal, not to mention the intense burning/itching feeling to go along with it. Had to load up on enough benadryl to look the Will Smith in Hitch along with a course of prednisone. Not good. Nitrile had extremely low reactivity rates. I personally do not like lacquer thinner over denatured alcohol. Smells worse, inhalational issues are MUCH higher with that than the alcohol. Less toxic is what I am after. For sanding they make these really cool N100 particulate filter masks, very nice. Old standard was N95 but they now upped the anti so to speak. They WILL not work for the organic vapors of FRESH epoxy. You probably already know that but often you will see guys using a dust mask with vapors. Fillets, dollar stores carry these really cheap white plastic spoons, long handled deals. Often in packs of 3. Almost the perfect fit for most fillets. Cool part is if you forget to wipe them, often you can just smack them on the concrete and the epoxy pops off the plastic. just another thought.
 
Latex was never a problem for me but I don't wear them every day like you do. I bought a box of the vinyl gloves - terrible, they have no strength and are hard to get on. I bought the unpowdered exam gloves one time too and had to dip my hand in wood flour before putting them - live and learn I guess.
 
I am loving all the info that you guys are offering. Everyone seems to be talking about fillets. I thought that fillets where on stich and glue boats where you glue the two pieces of ply together with the (peanut butter) and put tape over that. Am i thinking of something else? I dont think i have any fillets in my BBSB rebuild. I am just filling in between the cedar planks and filling the small gouges i made when ripping/cutting the old polyester resin and glass off. i have a few other questions aswell. after i fill in between the planks and it is all even do i want to put thickened epoxy all over the whole boat and sand it all fair before i put the cloth down? Or do i just fill the gaps then put cloth down and then put my wood flour and epoxy mix over that to get that smooth faired look? I am not sure when i do the fairing is it before the cloth or after. I was thinking maybe after that way the cloth is going on bare wood not on the dried thickened epoxy? Not sure I am not really looking for that out of the mold look but i dont want to see the seams of where i overlay the cloth. I just want a nice happy medium and a nice smooth boat Last but not least I am going to use slow cure epoxy from US Composites. I have read that people put down a coat of epoxy first then put the cloth over that then work in more epoxy. I have also read where people put the cloth on the bare dry wood then just put the epoxy on top and work it in that way. so what is the best way with the hull wet with epoxy then cloth or dry bare wood then cloth and epoxy? also this is my first time working with epoxy but will have a friend helping me. thanks again for all the help Chris
 
Chris,

You are correct, you probably won't need filets on your remodel but at least you'll know what to do if you need them. Regarding the cloth: Do all your filling between planks, gouges, etc. with thickened epoxy. If the wood is raw you might want to start with a coating of unfilled epoxy just to get it to soak into the wood a bit. Once everything is filled, sand it down as fair as you can get it THEN put the cloth on dry and pour epoxy over the cloth and work it in. I've done it both ways and putting cloth over wet epoxy is a major pain in the butt and not recommended. Some people will work the epoxy into the cloth with a squeegee type motion but what I have found works great is to use a foam roller like for paint. Get a bunch of the rollers as they will tend to stretch out after a while. If you haven't already, check my Poleboat build from last summer http://duckboats.net.nmsrv.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_threaded;post=126154;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;

Particularily go to the end of this post: http://duckboats.net.nmsrv.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_threaded;post=124736;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC; to see the foam rollers I used for my epoxy work.
 
Chris, to your question, should you cover the entire surface with thickened epoxy or just the spaces and holes? Depends on what you want in the end.... go back to my pictures and you will see I faired the entire surface. My hull was very un-even, and I did a lot of piecing of planks and repairs. I ended up with a hull that looks like a glass boat. It is significantly heavier then when I started. It is a tank. It is a trade off. I used a couple gallons more epoxy and did a lot more sanding too. If you want to keep it as light as possible, then do the minimal fairing. You will be able to see through the glass, the individual planks, and where the fairing was done. On my hull you can't tell it is a carvel planked hull until you look inside.

Let's see some more pictures! I am starting a Kalash layout refurb, so I'll offer some boat build fix later this week or next.

Dave
 
Pete i agree withthe other guys, you want to get the wood surface as smooth and fair as possible before glassing. Lay the cloth out dry trim the edges and apply the resin right over the dry cloth.We use red low knap roller covers for applying the resin these get the cloth down real tight to the wood. Short of being too dry, the less resin to cloth you use the stronger the layup is. Keep a couple of squeeges handy and a throw away brush for the corners. If you pour the resin on like the surfboard guys do it tends to float the cloth unless you squeege or bubble roll it down. Fair it with a skim wipe of microballoons and resin add 10% cabosil , this sands reasonably well and is how we fair our big boats. By the way Hi Dave! Rich. ps. dont dip the roller in a bucket of resin, use a roller tray it will go on a lot more evenly.
 
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