Herbicide recommendations

Eric Patterson

Eric Patterson

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Staff member
New ag tank sprayer arrived today so I'm about ready to tackle weeds. I need to spray a post emergent to kill the weeds that survived the disking and those that have sprouted since. Also I have an area where we park the vehicles during duck season that has exploded with poison ivy. I was thinking about a mix of roundup and 24d to nail the grasses and nuke the broadleaf plants. I've got some more research to do but was hoping for some input before I spend money on chemicals. Thanks.

Eric
 
What kind of "weeds" have survived? If it's a bunch of Cockleburr, mares tail, and millet just hit it with 2,4,D and let the millet grow. lots of the "good" moist soil plants are grasses so I wouldn't try and kill duck food just to plant more duck food.
 
Straight Roundup should take care of most of what you want. There is very little growing in roundup ready corn and bean fields around here, can't imagine much surviving that.

I don't think the 2,4D will kill anymore then the straight roundup will. If you want to save the grass in there then just go with the 2,4D, I don't see the upside to using both... but I'm a gardener not a farmer type. I don't think you will kill all the ivy with 2,4D though. If you add Roundup to the mix then most all the grass is going anyways.

Are you wanting to replant right away? If you do then Roundup is great for that. If you want to wait a bit then I think it is Dicamba or something like that will last a while in the soil. If you don't replant something that blocks out the weeds you will just get more to grow, especially if you disturb the soil again. There are more weed seeds in the ground waiting to grow then stars in the sky.

BTW Repeated disking is suppose to kill poison ivy without chemicals.

Tim
 
Eric - Both glyphosate (RoundUp) and 2-4-D are post-emergent herbicides, but they work in different ways. Glyphosate will kill everything, while 2-4-D just gets broadleaf plants, as others have said. Some moist soil plants that ducks like are grasses (millets, barnyard grasses, sprangletop, etc), while others are broadleafs (smartweed). The point I want to make is that you should not use both glyphosate and 2-4-D at the same time...they will work against each other. More is not better in this case. Glyphosate works slower and requires a vigorously growing plant to do its thing. 2-4-D works faster and would hurt the broadleafs immediately, diminishing the effectiveness of the glyphosate.

I learned this through experience. I needed to kill a bunch of spikerush so I sprayed two test plots...one with 2-4-D and the other with glyphosate to see which one worked best. The 2-4-D showed immediate results, but the glyphostae after some time did by far the best. I decided to use a tank mix with both. The results were not as good as either single application! My expert at the ag coop explained why.

Jeff Churan
 
I was thinking about a mix of roundup and 24d to nail the grasses and nuke the broadleaf plants.

Eric

That's what many of the folks around here use before we seed warm season grasses. I'm not sure of the rates, but that's the combination they use. Just be sure to give it time before you seed after spraying, they say 10 to 14 days. This will avoid residual pesticides harming your seeding. Waiting longer will also give the weeds a good chance to burn down, giving you better seed to soil contact.

Others who've posted have a good point though. If you want to save any of the existing beneficial moist soil grasses then just go with the 2-4-D. I'd still wait a while before planting to let the broadleaves die down.

Check with your local crop consultants or applicators as they should know what would work best in your locale as well as rates, mixing, etc.
Click to expand...
 
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Thanks for all the input. Although some of it is contradictory I understand that the conditions under which applications are made and vegetation to be ridded can vary wildly, so much that the same recipe may not yeild the same satisfactory results. Too many varialbes I suppose.

Like I mentioned earlier the poison ivy is in an area I've cleared where we park and unload gear. It exploded this year and is a dense carpet. Never seen it so thick and I'm highly allergic to it. Doing some more digging I see you guys are right, 2-4D is not the best stuff, and glyphosphate is so-so. Gov pubs I read said something with triclopyr and 2-4DP will knock it down. They also mentiones Amitrol and weedazol will kill it and stay in the soil for several weeks thus delaying planting. Since this area is a parking lot I'm fine with that. I do want to plant some grass in this area so by mid duck season it's not a mud hole, but I can get some good winter grasses going this Fall.

As for the 8 acre area to be treated when I disked it it did have some grasses on the higher elevations but the vast majority of it was broadleafs and woody vines. So while Mark's advice about not killing food only to plant food is quite good, I'm more concerned about the woody vegetation and stuff like ragweed that was everywhere. There is some smartweed there but I have come to the conclusion over the years that ducks don't really care for it in Dec and Jan. I'm sure they gorge on it at some point during the year but in North Alabama during hunting season they seem to ignore it. Of the broadleafs in the mix in the lower spots I found significant alligator weed. I want that shit GONE! Even if at the expense of some valuable wetland plants.

So with all this in mind keep the suggestions coming. In the meantime I'm headed out to get the new tank sprayer hooked up and go talk to the experts at the county co-op.

Eric
 
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Roundup will do most of what you need. Fescue will be more resistant and needs a richer mix. I just sprayed roundup and got a good kill on everything except fescue and passion flower. Some weeds were shielded by other plants and didn't get hit hard enough. If your weeds are annuals, they can be killed by discing especially if newly sprouted. Of course spraying works too but you get weeds again when you disc in your crop seeds. I have seen roundup and 2,4-D recommended as a mixture in some of my readings. I think if I had done this, my passion flower and thistle would have been killed. Although the two herbicides have a different action, I think the reason that they work together is that the 2,4-D causes uncontrolled growth which enhances the uptake of the roundup. Most glyphosate (roundup) has surfactant in it already. Check the label. Herbicides also differ as to whether a oil based or a non-ionic surfactant is recommended. 2,4-DB is labeled for use on soybeans, peas and clover and likely will be safe with all legumes. To save you the trouble of searching all the label data for the little info you need, here is my cheat sheet:

Crop Application​


Poast


1.5 pint/acre with 2.0 pint/acre crop oil. For fescue use 2.25 pints/acre of Poast.

Ammonium sulfate 2.5 Lbs. per acre can be added to increase effectiveness.


Roundup


1 pint/acre for most weeds when young. Sickle pod and thistle will take 1.5 and 2.0 pints/acre respectively.


Ammonium Sulfate 8.5 to 17 pound per 100 gallons can be added to increase effectiveness.


Sprayer Application: 2.66 oz./gallon for a 2% solution.


2,4-DB


    1. to 1 pint/acre.



Hand Held Sprayer Application​


Sevin


    1. oz./gallon for most applications but 3.0 oz./gallon for fruit trees. (don't spray apple trees until 30 days past petal drop)


Malathion


1 Tbs./gallon (1.5 to 2 Tbs./gallon for scale crawlers)


Green Light Fruit Tree Spray


1 oz./gallon (Apply mornings or evenings to get pests while still present on leaves)


2,4-DB


1.5oz./gallon


Roundup


2.5oz./gallon for a 2% solution.


Poast


2 oz. /gal with 0.5 oz/gal non-ionic surfactant
 
Eric,

What you use depends on what your goals are.

Since your site has sat fallow for a number of years it is likely that there is a lot of weed seeds in the soil. Every time you work the ground new seeds will be brought to the surface. This includes planting with anything but a broadcast seeder.

Selective herbicides like 2,4-D and poast kill only certain types of plants. Non-selective herbicides like roundup tend to kill all/most plants. If you have planted millet and broad-leaf weeds like ragweed are coming up you can spray something like 2,4-D and it won't hurt the millet. If you want to kill everything spray roundup.

Woody weeds, like poison ivy, are a whole different ball game. Roundup will eventually kill these weeds but, it will take multiple application over a course of months or years. There are other products that will be more effective against poison ivy.

It sounds like the poison ivy has been growing there for a while and when you cleared things it took advantage of the added sunlight. I'm sure you are aware that even though the leaves die you can still pick the oils up off of the vines so be careful.

What you may wan to do is disk the weeds down, wait a few days, spray roundup on recently emerged weeds and plant.

Tom
 
Made it over to the property yesterday and got some spraying done. There wasn't a lot of new growth but much of the disked up weeds were healthy, especially the alligator weed which has extensive roots. For the 8 acre food plot I went with Cornerstone Plus which is a generic 41% solution of Roundup. While applying it I noticed just how much alligator weed and water primrose was in there. That stuff is supposed to be hard to get rid of so I expect more applications are going to be needed. For the poison ivy I used Crossbow (triclopyr + 2,4-D) which the county coop recommended. I hope it works because that stuff is expensive but given the density of the poison ivy it will be worth it if it gives a good kill.

I did come to one conclusion, the boomless nozzle that came with the sprayer distributes the herbicide too quickly. I had to run 8 mph to get the needed coverage. Any slower and I was going to have to water down the mixture more than I wanted. A new nozzle is already on order.
 
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Crossbow Herbicide...Especially good during growth period...Make sure you spray a good two hours before it rains...Mainly 2-4D...

It will take care of anything...
 
Eric,

With a glyphosate basedpproducted you do not need to coat all the foliage. In fact, they use to make rope wick applicators that just applied a small amount of concentrated product to the weed.

With the Crossbow you can get a different nozzle or figure out how much water per acre you are applying and then add how much product you want to apply to that area to the tank. Dilution rate is not that important. The amount of herbicide applied per square foot is important.

The only caveat would be if your water volume per acre was so high that most of the product was running off the foliage onto the ground.

Tom
 
Tom

I hear you and understand. Problem is my 55 gallon tank is empty in 10 minutes and that is at the lowest PSI. If I go any lower the drop size is too big and coverage suffers. If I up the pressure that 10 minutes gets shorter, a lot shorter at 60 PSI. I could just keep adding water but my only source is a bucket in a nearby pond. I'd rather slow her down and go with a higher concentrate, smaller drops, and at a slower speed. I've ordered two smaller nozzles. One of them will be just right.

Eric
 
One thing I would like to add this conversation that I learned while helping to spray some duck impoundments down here in Florida.


Add (2) two oz's of Dawn dishsoap per gallon of per gallon of mix.


The soap helps keep down the "mist" & helps it stick to whatever it is applied to.

If you get a sudden shower, the soap will foam up a little & keep the product on the evasive.


We've used it with straight Round-up (which is "overkill" & normally mixed @ 2oz per gallon but we usually mixed hot @ 4oz lol), Aquathol-K & the 2,4-D.

They use the Dawn down here when spraying from the chopper to keep down on the cross contamination.

I even use the Dawn around the house when spraying.

Good Luck!!!
 
Eric

I've used a product similar to "Roundup" called "Ground Works" from Tractor Supply Co. It has a higher concentration of glyphosate, (50% I think), and is less expensive. I'm not covering anywhere near the amount of land you are and just use a hand sprayer but the results have been very satisfactory.

Dave
 
Eric, you might need to replace your nozzle tips for a lower flow rate. They are relatively cheap and can be had at Tractor Supply if they didn't sell out (spraying season ya know). Oddly, the plastic ones are more durable than the brass ones. You did calibrate your sprayer didn't you?
 
Ken

Tractor supply doesn't carry the brand I needed so I ordered the two smaller oriface nozzles online. They came in the mail yesterday. I did calibrate with the nozzle that came with the sprayer. I"ll do it again with the new nozzles but have a pretty good feel the smallest nozzle will be just about perfect.

Eric
 
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