HMM, because so many like spinners...
- Thread starter Clint
- Start date
Mark W
Well-known member
I'll bite. I wish they would let us hunt over live birds. I never had the chance to do so but think raising and taking care of a suzie would create a different experience verses how we hunt today. It would be much fun to watch a real bird work the flights as they pass overhead. Stupid question as I don't know how long ago they were outlawed but has anyone here hunted over live birds? I would love to hear some of thoses stories..
The simple reason you can't use live birds is that they are illegal - says so right in the hunting regs. Spinners are legal in most States.
Mark W
The simple reason you can't use live birds is that they are illegal - says so right in the hunting regs. Spinners are legal in most States.
Mark W
Mark,
So it only matters if "it's legal?"
Live decoys were outlawed almost 100 years ago. I would guess that their success wouold be similar to spinners and they'd be a whole lot more work. One acceptable...the other not. Wondered why live decoys weren't considered for the Conservation Order for snow geese...was told it was considered, but quickly dismissed as being been too radical of a change to allow.
Clint
So it only matters if "it's legal?"
Live decoys were outlawed almost 100 years ago. I would guess that their success wouold be similar to spinners and they'd be a whole lot more work. One acceptable...the other not. Wondered why live decoys weren't considered for the Conservation Order for snow geese...was told it was considered, but quickly dismissed as being been too radical of a change to allow.
Clint
Mark W
Well-known member
You asked why you can't use live birds and I answered the question - they are illegal. You didn't ask anything about ethics or morals or anything else. Had the question been about the morals or ethics of using live birds since you believe they are/were as effective as spinners, I would not have answered.
It would have been fun to be a part of that hunting era where live callers were used. It would add a whole new dimension o the hunt.
Mark W
It would have been fun to be a part of that hunting era where live callers were used. It would add a whole new dimension o the hunt.
Mark W
I didn't realize I was so stupid that I didn't know the regulations.
So, I'll ask another way, why is one acceptible and thwe other not?
I can only kill 6 birds a day. It doesn't matter HOW I kill them, and regs will change if I kill too may, right? So, why can't I use live decoys and you can use a spinner?
Clint
So, I'll ask another way, why is one acceptible and thwe other not?
I can only kill 6 birds a day. It doesn't matter HOW I kill them, and regs will change if I kill too may, right? So, why can't I use live decoys and you can use a spinner?
Clint
John Robinson
Well-known member
I still don't understand what you are asking, acceptable to whom? I guess we could argue which game laws make sense and which don't, but we would just be arguing for the sake of argument unless we are actually lobbying the government to change certain regs, such as the live decoy rule.
My take on this whole debate is that the regulations are bottom line, we all must abide by them or risk legal consequences, whatever additional limits we add to the regs are personal and arbitrary. I think trying to impose our own personal choices on other hunters is a bit too PC and elitist for me. As a fly fisherman I see folks from my community out fishing with worms and salmon eggs, I used to look down my nose at them, but as I have grown older I've become ashamed of my previous pious attitude. They are just people like you and me trying to enjoy our wonderful resource with their family, why is that any less noble than my catch and release dry fly fishing. Ditto with that duck hunter and his spinning wing, he had a nice duck boat,set of decoys and best of all from my perspective, a trained retriever. He had one of those rare hunts when the weather was right and the birds were willing, the spinner probably didn't even have much effect as everything else was working for him that day. I also don't think he even knew the spinner was at all controversial, I sure didn't until I read these threads.
John
Mark W
Well-known member
Where and when did I say I use a spinner?
So the question has changed to the ethical/moral question. Already said I wouldn't answer that one as all this thread will become is another shouting match with names being tossed back and forth. I'll leave this to you and others.
Mark w
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John Robinson
Well-known member
The regs in my State say you and I both can use a spinner, and neither of us can use a live decoy. You aren't being singled out here.
John
TimJ
Well-known member
It's the bird flu. Don't you know that all birds are disease ridden critters that are just waiting the spread a new pathogen across the land? You must have done your schooling before they had microscopes.
Seriously, I don't think motors, bait or live decoys should be used to lure animals that we are shooting the sustainable surplus from. These are not like deer eating crops, coyotes harassing cattle or coons getting into barns. Snow geese, and in some areas giant canadas, are the only waterfowl that need any control. I think some believe a certain amount of ducks need to be shot.
As much as I would love to hunt over call ducks, and probably would if I were in the right country(read hypocrite), I think it is just as wrong. Unfair I suppose is the best way to put it, there are just so many other ways to do it without them. Now since we have motos and if you want to make the argument that call ducks should be legal because they are more work and would not add more then the motos I think you are on firm ground. Not many of todays hunters would take care of a noisy duck all year, or even just through the season. I bet it would confuse the dogs too. I could see some lodges having large flocks of calls for their clients to hunt over. Maybe like falconry you would have to make it so only the handler could hunt with them.
Tim
Seriously, I don't think motors, bait or live decoys should be used to lure animals that we are shooting the sustainable surplus from. These are not like deer eating crops, coyotes harassing cattle or coons getting into barns. Snow geese, and in some areas giant canadas, are the only waterfowl that need any control. I think some believe a certain amount of ducks need to be shot.
As much as I would love to hunt over call ducks, and probably would if I were in the right country(read hypocrite), I think it is just as wrong. Unfair I suppose is the best way to put it, there are just so many other ways to do it without them. Now since we have motos and if you want to make the argument that call ducks should be legal because they are more work and would not add more then the motos I think you are on firm ground. Not many of todays hunters would take care of a noisy duck all year, or even just through the season. I bet it would confuse the dogs too. I could see some lodges having large flocks of calls for their clients to hunt over. Maybe like falconry you would have to make it so only the handler could hunt with them.
Tim
travis bruce
Active member
The arkansas game and fish commission said you can't even let live ducks go because you might introduce disease to wild populations. Lots of folks would buy 400-500 or more ducks, and let them go on their farms... ducks attatract ducks. And once the first couple weekends where over and all the early ducks where shot up, you had someone 'over sleep' and drive out to the pit thru the cornor all the tame ducks sat at... they flew over top of pits 10 foot off the water, and the fellas from AL and GA didn't know the difference or care. Anyways, the biggest supplier of these ducks, also supplied for release shoots and for dog trials, had a business growing 250,000 ducks per year (at anywhere from $8 to $25 a duck, depending on how and when he sold them, thats a lot of cheese) didn't think they could make people stop. Couple hundred thou in fines, and legal fees, a lost business, 25 new regulations for ducks for dog trials and added expenses, the agfc stand about having tame ducks is pretty damn clear to anyone that was involved. Our involvment was him calling us 3 weeks before our trial, and telling us to come get our ducks then, because the agfc was raiding his business and pad locking the door the next morning. But I digress.
The orginal laws about calling ducks where during a period of time when duck shooting was moving from a way of life to provide for your family, and a sport. Calling ducks, bait, plugged shotguns, no punts, no nets or snares, all is a result of that. There where tools of people that used to duck hunt for a living... and I come from a line of folks that did just that. Funny my grand dad sunny loved to fish his entire life, loved to squirrel hunt, but I cant remember him ever going duck hunting... he had done it for a living when he had no choice, and I suppose he didnt see it as something to do for 'sport'. Comparing laws made then to now, is a stretch at best, and the effectiveness about spinners to live ducks... eh there was a time, but not since that first season have i seen anything of the sort.
Anytime you try to take a logical arugement, but make it personal, (i.e. why can't I if you) your playing emotions, not science. You know that, heck i think you taught me that! ha.
All in all, i say forget a buncha spinners, Im ready for a driven coot shoot! travis
The orginal laws about calling ducks where during a period of time when duck shooting was moving from a way of life to provide for your family, and a sport. Calling ducks, bait, plugged shotguns, no punts, no nets or snares, all is a result of that. There where tools of people that used to duck hunt for a living... and I come from a line of folks that did just that. Funny my grand dad sunny loved to fish his entire life, loved to squirrel hunt, but I cant remember him ever going duck hunting... he had done it for a living when he had no choice, and I suppose he didnt see it as something to do for 'sport'. Comparing laws made then to now, is a stretch at best, and the effectiveness about spinners to live ducks... eh there was a time, but not since that first season have i seen anything of the sort.
Anytime you try to take a logical arugement, but make it personal, (i.e. why can't I if you) your playing emotions, not science. You know that, heck i think you taught me that! ha.
All in all, i say forget a buncha spinners, Im ready for a driven coot shoot! travis
Corey Zachel
Member
I think a jerk string is all that is needed with some decoys anyways. take all electro-mechanical means away for all i care. they help, but aren't the only thing that works.
Dave Church
Well-known member
Ray makes a great point. Many, if not all of us, have been happy when a coot, grebe, other duck, heron...whatever has made it's way through our decoys with perfect timing of a passing flock of ducks. We didn't shoo it away...we were happy the little fella was there to help us out. I have had a pair of woodies smack down in the decoys and swim around while I was hailing mallards. I just let the woodies do their thing and when the mallards committed, we took whatever we could. If hens land in the spread and they are off limits, we don't soo them out so that the drakes have more room. I'm with ya Ray. dc
Wispete
Well-known member
The discussion of the use of live ducks which are illegal now. They were very effective. Many years ago I was sharing a blind with a older gentlemen who when he was a young man hunted with a fellow named Otto who had live ducks. Otto kept and fed the ducks year around in a wire cage. When Otto went hunting he brought the cage with him. The Mallard ducks in the cage were a one time wild Mallards. How Otto got them I don't know. Otto would place the cage next to the blind when hunting and place some corn in it. When wild ducks would fly near by, Otto would shoo the mallards out of the cage and they would fly up and join the wild ducks but the so called tame Mallards knew where the food was and would return back to the cage for corn and bring the wild ducks with them. The only problem with this system is identifying the wild ducks from the semi wild ones. Evidently Otto got pretty upset if someone shot one of his ducks.
This was small scale from what some market hunters used.
This was small scale from what some market hunters used.
Dave Church
Well-known member
I remember not that long ago (past 15 years) about hunt clubs on the Maryland eastern shore that were catering to all the big Washington DC money. These clubs had birds that would be "trained" to be booted from a cage and knew that they just had to fly over the tree line and come into the decoys where the food was. This was also where the paying hunters were. This is no different than a Game Preserve. I don't thumb my nose at these places, I have actually taken young dogs to pheasant/quail preserves to put them on birds that are not common to my area. The problem with duck "farms" like this is that they have no control over the wild birds that mix in. Several of these places got "stung" as I recall. To be quite honest, I don't even care about bag limits. I enjoy the hunt with my dog and my sons. There are plenty of hunts that I don't even shoulder my gun. It's not about the kill for me anymore. I like the fact that the decoys that I made worked, the guns that I trained my kids with worked, that my lab that I trained ....works. I guess I am an out of control......control freak. dc