Hull shapes considerations?

J

Jon Zuccolo

Active member
Howdy all, I am settling into my new life in Canada, and enjoying it immensely, and there are lots and lots of ducks and geese around. Still waiting to get my gun permit (doh!), so I have been out finding spots for next year.

I've been particularly interested in chasing down sea ducks, mainly for the added challenge of the sea, however, the sea is a wild and scarey place around here some days. I took my canoe out a few days back, just for a test run in some partially sheltered water, and figured it would be a bad idea to get out into exposed deep water, especially where I had been seeing sea ducks.

So, I was wondering how you all approach this? Do you only go out on good days? Do you only use craft that are designed for open water? Use semi-V hull boats? Do classic duck boats handle chop like this well?

I could also hunt from shore as there were plenty of ducks in close, but how to get decoys out? and how to get them back?

Here's the seas I was looking at today. Definitely would be challenging to get a canoe out past that...
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John:

Looks like you are in the Maritimes? If so, you've got pretty much the same conditions we do here in Maine. I hunt out of a canoe a lot, but it's for sheltered waters. There is lots of tidal salt marsh and many sheltered bays where a canoe or kayak is fine. Just remember that for most of duck season your margin of error is slim due to cold water.

Bigger--but still somewhat sheltered--water is fine for small boats. I will occasionally sea a "gunning skiff" (the local term for a small, shallow-draft, low sided boat for one or two hunters, like a sneak box or South Bay Scooter) in sheltered parts of Casco Bay, but only on good days. I hunt these waters out of a 14 foot V-hull Lowe--but I pick my days. There are a few spots I can reach in that boat where I can find some seaducks, but most of the better spots require more boat.

If you want to head out after sea ducks--especially in the kind of wide open water your pictures show--you want plenty of boat. I have two friends who hunt out an 18 foot Lund Alaska, and there are days and places we feel it's not enough boat. The serious seaduck fanatics mostly have highly seaworthy boats--designed for being off shore in some weather.
 
Hull size would be an important consideration too :). The shot you have there is hard to judge looks like awefully angry seas and I wouldn't be all that excited to hunt it in any size boat. In addition to the boat being able to handle the water, you also have to anchor the boat, keep your decoys in place and pick them up, fight tides, etc... In a lot of coastal areas there are sheltered areas to hunt most of the time and on flat ass calm days you can poke out into the Atlantic - but those calm days will not be the norm. Not very forgiving if you have a mortor problem or other issue.

Find out what the locals do and how they approach it and take your ideas from them.

T
 
"Definitely would be challenging to get a canoe out past that"

Jon...hopefully your not in a hurry to meet Davey Jones! For me to sit here and say "I've been on some mean Mississippi River water just seems silly when looking at your photos. If I were to actually put myself in a boat on water like that I know I'd be one sick puppy!

What ever your do just be careful. No one wants to read your obit.
 
Not to worry, I have enough common sense to not even unload my canoe when its nowhere near that rough...

I hadn't been to that spot before, but I think the 30 knot wind made it particularly nasty. There are many bays on the south side of PEI with much calmer water, but so far the vast majority of ducks I've been seeing are black ducks (I know, its a tough life :) )

Heres a couple more photos of birds I'll be chasing next year:
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Hi Jon. Cheech Kehoe and I built a Snow Goose about 11 years ago. I use it here on Champlain. I'd give it mixed reviews. When running down wind in rough water, it feels very safe. That broad V bow and the deck overhang make you feel safe. However, going upwind into the big waves, can make you feel a little queasy. Now maybe thats due to the conditions on Champlain where I routinely see true 5 foot waves that are only 2 boat lengths apart making me feel queasy. I'd always assumed that on a different body of water where the waves aren't so close together that I would be less nervous.

If I were to want to build another Snow Goose, I'd see Sam and ask for a design modification such that the boat has more spring to the shear. I'd like a higher bow, one at least 8 or 10 inches higher. I'd leave the existing freeboard alone amidships, and maybe reccomend that the shear come up 2 or 3 inches in the stern.

John Bourbon
 
Anyone have experience with the devlin snow goose? Does it handle rough water well?
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Jon,

There are a few guys on here that have built a Snow Goose. If your planning on taking on water like you show in the photos your going to need a lot more boat than that. I would be thinking about 25' boat with twins or even bigger. If you get in trouble in seas like that it's "game over". It may be best to have a plan "B" for days when it's blowing like that.

I was running a 23'Mako as a tender and found that was not big enough at times.
Here it is with three boats in tow.
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I ended up selling the 23' boat for a 27' Boston Whaler with twin 225 hp outboards. I have had it out in some nasty stuff and felt much more comfortable.
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If you plan on getting into nasty condition think big, then think bigger.
Good luck in what ever you decide, but be safe.
 
Anyone have experience with the devlin snow goose? Does it handle rough water well?
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I have a snowgoose and I wouldn't take it out in the conditions you showed. I don't ever want to be out in any boat duckhunting under those conditions, either :).

The Snowgoose and other Devlin boats are low freeboard boats as designed and are meant to be easy to hide. I love mine, and use it in coastal waters a lot, but always under protected condition - either in large bays or long island sound. I woudl use one in the general area that you are talking about but always in sheltered water and maybe on nice days. All Devlins boats are decked, which helps shed water from waves, but since they are low, they also tend to be pretty wet (since there is no high bow to slap the splash back, which is one way to make a boat drier). A 16' boat is a little boat in a big ocean, especially when the wind blows. In sloppy conditions the deck gives you a lot of protection from taking water, as much of the water rolls back into the sea (rather than into the bilge).

Were I building a boat for the coastal contitions that I think you have, I might consider a snowgoose as a platform. If you wish more seaworthyness in a 16' package, consider building up the upper deck as a TDB or higher (Phil did this nicely with his Honker). I kinda consider the Snowgoose and Honker a little big as designed to be good to hide for puddlers with a even a low profile blind, mine works, but it is often hard to hide. A higher hard blind/deck would get a whole lot of freeboard and if you were able to build it light, it woudl not have much of a hinderance on performance - boat would be harder to hide then in smaller water. If you were hunting coastal waters with lots of rock outcrops, the high hard blind/deck would not be a problem to hide. It only makes sense to have a dedicated coastal boat if that is giong to be your thing. If you build a big boat and trick it all out and seaduck gunning doesn't work for you - that would suck :). A cheap tin boat with a half asses blind may be a good test in the same sheltered waters.
 
Thanks for the advice folks, I'm gonna give those sea ducks a pass for now until I get a bit of a pay upgrade at work :)

For now, there are plenty of geese and puddle ducks to focus on
 
Thanks for the advice folks, I'm gonna give those sea ducks a pass for now until I get a bit of a pay upgrade at work :)

For now, there are plenty of geese and puddle ducks to focus on
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A lot of times the birds can be hunted in sheltered areas, it may be the case of the difficulty isn't finding birds, but finding and area that can be hunted safely that has seaducks.
 
If it was me living there.. and I was looking to build... I would go with a 20' honker, and a Scaup...
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If I was buying... I would be looking at the minimum of a Bankes Freedom or a TDB 17
 
Jon, as long as we're talking big boats and big water, make sure you have a ladder of some type bolted to the side or stern of your big water boat so that you can get back into the boat if you should slip or get tossed into the water. I bolted one on to the stern of my Snow Goose and consider it an essential piece of safety gear.

John Bourbon
 
Jon, as long as we're talking big boats and big water, make sure you have a ladder of some type bolted to the side or stern of your big water boat so that you can get back into the boat if you should slip or get tossed into the water. I bolted one on to the stern of my Snow Goose and consider it an essential piece of safety gear.

John Bourbon
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I agree some way to get back in is essential. Can you not climb over the transom with the well in the snowgoose? I have done it both as a test and in an emergency.
 
I never even considered trying to climb in over the transom due to rotator cuff issues. I bolted the ladder on during the boat build and never gave the gymnastics another thought.

John
 
I never even considered trying to climb in over the transom due to rotator cuff issues. I bolted the ladder on during the boat build and never gave the gymnastics another thought.

John
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That would explain it. It is easy enough for me without the gymnastics (a spring board would be cool, though), and I'm fat and out of shape.
 
The best way to hunt that spot would likely be from a couch in your living room. NO duck is worth risking your life over.

Find sheltered water.
 
If it was me living there.. and I was looking to build... I would go with a 20' honker, and a Scaup...
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I was looking over Devlin's site a few weeks ago, and the LingCod models caught my eye...25" and 27' garveys...now that would be a big water boat to build.
 
I was at a meeting last night with a friend who has long experience in boats on the Maine ocean. A mutual acquaintance of ours--a career Coast Guard man-- built a Snow Goose and hunts sea ducks out of it in Port Clyde. Anyway, he apparently finds it seaworthy, and the friend I was with last night also described it as a boat he'd be happy to shoot eiders out of.

I still think it's a little small for snotty conditions, but the two of them are far more qualified to judge.

The builder occasionally posts here--perhaps he'll chime in with some thoughts.
 
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