Hunting Land Access

Eric Patterson

Eric Patterson

Moderator
Staff member
Simple question here. How has access to waterfowl hunting grounds, public and private, changed for you over the years? Do you have more or less access than you did say five, ten, twenty+ years ago?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Eric
 
There was no overall changes for me from 1997-2019 down in Mobile. Just minor adjustments here and there.
 
The big change here was the move to require landowner permission, I think in the 90's. Verbal permission is ok for waterfowl. In the old days, if it wasn't posted you could hunt. Now, if it's not posted you can still do everything but hunt, including fishing. The landowner needs to complain to the warden, but it's not worth taking the chance if you didn't ask. Everything tidal is public so that is not effected, but little ponds and backwoods swamps on private land are typically no-go.

This law changed the dynamics of where birds could hole up, years ago people jump shot almost all of the little spots and kept birds moving around. Now we might as well be surrounded by a thousand wildlife refuges, until a hard freeze at which point they get pushed to the tidal areas.

We in the northeast are still fortunate to have as much public access hunting as we do. I can't imagine enduring a draw for a hunting spot. Or having access to otherwise public areas restricted by quarter mile blind distance laws specifically designed to keep out what you guys refer to as the freelancer.
 
Duck hunting here in NW Pa. was never spectacular, but things have changed and not for the better. The first thing is that farmers now harvest corn completely different from how they did it 10 years ago. Every field is now chopped about 6" off the ground and there isn't a scrap of waste corn for the geese anymore. IMO it's almost ruined the goose hunting around here. Secondly, high water levels in Lake Erie have definitely done something to the bird. At Presque Isle there used to be thousands of coots during the season, but now it's rare to see more than a few hundred. We used to get Blue Bills by the carload but now not so much. The Blue Bill was always a staple at PI, but not anymore. Now the staple is the Mergie and Cormorant. You see them by the thousands. Additionally at the Cleveland Ohio break wall, you used to be able to slam the Bills but now, it to is nothing but Mergies. As far as inland hunting goes I have lost more places in the last 10 years than I can remember. Urban sprawl, city people who moved to the country and now wont let you hunt, the list goes on and on and just about everything is posted. I'm glad I'm on the downward slope because it ain't what it used to be.[mad]
 
They adjusted them from time to time, but nothing major, didnt impact the way I hunted.
I guess did forget one major change: Bay Grass and Big Batty becoming no-motor zones during the season. But I hadn't hunted either of those areas in years.
 
Hunting in FL has become more restricted. There are more places that are quota permit only than there were when I started hunting 20+ years ago. It also used to be that if you didn't have a quota permit for most places, there was a first come first served line. People being people screwed that system up so now IF a place allows to have their empty quota spots filled, it is by lotto. That hurts any out of towner because now a person has to HOPE they get their name pulled if they decide to take a chance on a property and drive a long way and they don't have a quota permit.

Also, we have lost far more access to hunting locations because of influx of people.

There seems to be a lot more spraying of SAV just before the waterfowl season than when I first started. And I mean just before. I can't count the numbers of times that I have gone scouting or had friends go scouting and we get excited about the birds and food that we see. And then a week prior to the season, it gets nuked. No food. No birds.

Also, water quality on large bodies of water is failing. The Indian River Lagoon area of FL used to be outstanding for divers. Now, the state is trying to find ways to feed manatees because the water quality is so bad that seemingly nothing can grow except algae.

Moving to this area of FL was a bit of a shock because Leon county has restricted days that you can hunt during the season. So that sucked but I understand why it is this way. Many many people and not really many many places for those people to spread out to. So a long time ago (not sure when), Leon County became a only a few days a week county and motor restrictions for the big lakes.

And then the birds are just showing up later and later in the season.

There is a lot of private land around here, most of it Plantations. If I was better about networking, I might be able to finagle invites from time to time but I don't bother with that, even though I know I probably could get invites. I know enough of the "right" people. I never really had much access to private, but I seemed to have a lot more access to good public land. A combo of moving where I have, influx of people over the years to the better hunting areas and water quality issues.....that access/quality has diminished to the point where I won't make the trek to central FL to hunt anymore unless I have a permit.
 
There seems to be a lot more spraying of SAV just before the waterfowl season than when I first started. And I mean just before. I can't count the numbers of times that I have gone scouting or had friends go scouting and we get excited about the birds and food that we see. And then a week prior to the season, it gets nuked. No food. No birds.
Also, water quality on large bodies of water is failing. The Indian River Lagoon area of FL used to be outstanding for divers. Now, the state is trying to find ways to feed manatees because the water quality is so bad that seemingly nothing can grow except algae.
Click to expand...

Might be a nexus there. [wink] Surprising that large scale herbicide spraying in/over water is permitted.
 
SJ Fairbank said:
There seems to be a lot more spraying of SAV just before the waterfowl season than when I first started. And I mean just before. I can't count the numbers of times that I have gone scouting or had friends go scouting and we get excited about the birds and food that we see. And then a week prior to the season, it gets nuked. No food. No birds.
Also, water quality on large bodies of water is failing. The Indian River Lagoon area of FL used to be outstanding for divers. Now, the state is trying to find ways to feed manatees because the water quality is so bad that seemingly nothing can grow except algae.
Click to expand...

Might be a nexus there. [wink] Surprising that large scale herbicide spraying in/over water is permitted.
Click to expand...

We have screamed the same thing here. Doesn't seem to make a difference. Supposedly the spraying is done with a very specific amount that should be sprayed and where. Sadly, that is not usually the case and lakes frequently get nuked.
 
No changes here in legal access worth discussing. Anything below the high tide line and any "Great Pond" (natural lake or pond > 10 acres) is open to "fish, fowl, or navigate". What has changed is development along the coast and many lakes, making it a lot harder to find ways to get from solid ground to those lakes and intertidal areas. The best example I can think of is a long-favorite black duck spot for me and lots of other people in Casco Bay. Easy to access by boat or canoe. A new subdivsion of three houses moved this from both safe and legal to hunt, to right on the edge of Maine's law that prohibits hunting within 100 yards of a house. It's technically still legal to hunt there--but would just invite conflict with the homeowners.

High on the list of arguments I never want to be in the middle of: "Warden, I checked on Google Earth, and we are 140 yards from the corner of that house, no matter what the owner says."

OTOH, we are seeing increasing guaranteed public access via state, town and land trust purchases of property or conservation easements that allow public access, including hunting except in situations where that would not be safe. This has prevented the kind of development I complained about above in many of my favored spots. Safe to say I would not hunt Casco Bay much without those spots, because they'd have had houses built on them by now.
 
Public opportunities are about the same, Currituck sound is still off limits unless you're in the click of hunting gangs that will invite you. Can apply for permit hunts but duck numbers just aren't here anymore.

More local you just have to dodge the baited spots that no one can prove who dumped so warden does nothing about it let alone he hunts with the same crowd that does such activities.

Private has gotten worse due to more housing developments or idiots that ruin it for others. Also the outfitters are leasing more places or landowners have learned they can make impoundments and just invite their "friends" to hunt to get special deals in other areas of their lives.

I've been fortunate to have a few new places pop up and get access to that shouldn't have any issues with for at least a few years. But access doesn't help if the birds aren't here, birds are here only in late January and into February when we can't hunt. Unless we have a good cold snap in December or early January but even then it's only a couple to a few days are decent hunting.
 
Access locally has diminished here in SC due to development, duck hunting distance restrictions and as of this past duck season a Wed / Sat only duck hunting restriction on our two National Forests which has further reduced hunter opportunity. Private land leases, clubs are ridiculously expensive and many "clubs" raise, release and shoot tame mallards.....the purest form of bastardization of waterfowling in my opinion.

Public habitat overall on ALL inland lakes has diminished due to loss of SAV (both native and invasive) after the loss of 40,000 acres of hydrilla on the Santee Cooper lakes. (mid 90's) "Sterile" grass carp were introduced into the Santee Cooper lake system and it completely decimated all SAV in the lakes. This one lake system has served as an invaluable lesson on what NOT to do when using a non native grass carp to combat a non native SAV. Our SCDNR release MILLIONS into the lakes and essentially wiped out ALL SAV.

Lake Murray, where I live had approximately 6-8,000 acres of hydrilla and wintered 15-20,000 ducks and they all disappeared after the introduction of 65,000 grass carp. 2004-5 My son's were raised duck hunting on Lake Murray. I've made it a personal goal to get native SAV back into our lakes whether I ever hunt it again or not. This past January I watched in amazement as a bull Wigeon dropped into a bed of Eelgrass (tape grass, wild celery, Vallisneria) that we now have growing on the lake....and since we got it started we have acres and acres of it growing!
 
I would say that over the 20 years I have been hunting in Oregon, public access has not changed much. There is what used to be a popular walk in spot just outside of Portland that was owned by BLM, the Sandy River Delta. Once it changed hands to Forrest Service they limited access hours and pretty much eliminated walk in hunters. I still hunt it by boat, but it has changed drastically due to a change in the river system for Salmon habitat. The name of the river is called the Sandy for a reason. The entire delta has been silted in with sand raising it up as much as 3-4 feet in places. A lot of duck used to roost there and I have had many great evening hunts over the years but sadly they do not use it like they used to. Also there have been multiple private lands that have been purchased by various govt entities to create refuges. This is great for habitat and all but now the birds just sit on the refuges all day and some of the adjacent public land hunting has suffered because of this. Don't get me wrong there are still lots of public land opportunities on the Columbia as well as the Bays and the Willamette river if you have a boat and are willing to drive up to a couple hours from the Portland metro area.
 
Lots of changes in Washington State. Much of the state public hunting land near the water ways is being converted over to salmon restoration projects. It has ruined what has been historically great waterfowl hunting locations. The State used to plant the areas with crops, millet, wheat, corn, etc. Now it's just cattails and other weeds with thick mud. Many of the farmers that you could just ask permission to hunt have gone to clubs, leases, or private waterfowl hunting. Getting access is very difficult unless hunting the Columbia River. Many of the public spots have become overcrowded with folks and the competition is very high. I guess the one benefit is that our season is 107 days with a limit of 7 ducks per day. Some of the competition is burned out by January, so it opens up some of the public land.
 
HI Tony, I move from Oregon to Vancouver about 12 years ago and continue to hunt on Oregon for that very reason. I found it difficult to find public access. With property lines going to the middle of the river or low tide, unlike in Oregon. The only thing I could find around here is Ridgefield refuge and Vancouver Lake and none of those sound to appealling to me. I do what I can to aviod crowds. In a nutshell access was pain to figure out so I gave up looking..... Oregon is much more open with it's public land use. The Sandy River Delta is prime example of a Salmon habitat resoration that did nothing for the Salmon but ruined duck habitat. from my understanding the same thing happend at Nisqually.
 
Having read posts from other States I have to say if there is a benefit to living in the People's Republic of New Jersey its that finding a place to duck hunt is relatively easy, especially along the coast. Most everything tidal is public and requires no permission or lotteries. Some towns have tried "No Discharge" laws to limit hunting, but these mostly don't apply to tidal lands.

Hunting inland has become a bit more challenging now that landowner permission is needed, but WMAs can be found to hunt.

My biggest concern for hunting access is State funds/grants being used to purchase property in partnership with so called conservation groups. These groups "maintain" the property, but don't generally allow duck hunting. Deer hunting may be allowed - with permission, but only with the pretext of preserving the forest.
 
Bob Reitmeyer said:
Having read posts from other States I have to say if there is a benefit to living in the People's Republic of New Jersey its that finding a place to duck hunt is relatively easy, especially along the coast. Most everything tidal is public and requires no permission or lotteries. Some towns have tried "No Discharge" laws to limit hunting, but these mostly don't apply to tidal lands.

Hunting inland has become a bit more challenging now that landowner permission is needed, but WMAs can be found to hunt.

My biggest concern for hunting access is State funds/grants being used to purchase property in partnership with so called conservation groups. These groups "maintain" the property, but don't generally allow duck hunting. Deer hunting may be allowed - with permission, but only with the pretext of preserving the forest.
Click to expand...

Maine has a bond-fund "Land for Maine's Future Fund" that can be used to purchase fee or easements for public access to and conservation of land. With some exceptions I think most people would agree with--public beaches, boat access sites, downtown parks, or similar places where existing laws or public safety would preclude hunting, all lands acquired with the funds must provide guaranteed public access that includes hunting, fishing, and other traditional uses. That's guaranteed in statute. There are some arguments about what other uses are "traditional", but hunting and fishing are guaranteed. Some projects funded by the program are state-owned, but many of them are owned and managed by land trusts, towns, private owners who agree to a conservation easement, federal agencies (like additions to a NWR or National Forest), etc.

I've run into a few examples where rules put in place by the landowner might conflict with duck hunting. For example, one land trust near me had a rule that only allows access between dawn and dusk. When I called them and pointed out that duck hunters (and striper fisherman) were often out there before dawn or after sunset, they updated their management plan to allow access for hunting and fishing at night with permission. Another property was closed to hunting because it's small and has a very popular and heavily used trail network. They change the rule to allow waterfowl hunting only below the high tide line, and to allow access to walk in hunters. Deer or turkey hunting would really be unsafe on this site, even with shotguns.

I know Maine is not New Jersey, but specifically providing for hunting access where it's appropriate in state funding for land access, and a little education of the land managers who have concerns about hunting, can go a long way anywhere.
 
benp said:
Public opportunities are about the same, Currituck sound is still off limits unless you're in the click of hunting gangs that will invite you. Can apply for permit hunts but duck numbers just aren't here anymore.

More local you just have to dodge the baited spots that no one can prove who dumped so warden does nothing about it let alone he hunts with the same crowd that does such activities.

Private has gotten worse due to more housing developments or idiots that ruin it for others. Also the outfitters are leasing more places or landowners have learned they can make impoundments and just invite their "friends" to hunt to get special deals in other areas of their lives.

I've been fortunate to have a few new places pop up and get access to that shouldn't have any issues with for at least a few years. But access doesn't help if the birds aren't here, birds are here only in late January and into February when we can't hunt. Unless we have a good cold snap in December or early January but even then it's only a couple to a few days are decent hunting.
Click to expand...

This seems to be the story for much of eastern NC --- Dare county, Hyde County, Pamlico County, and Carteret County. Public access is technically available, but the private impoundments and duck clubs seem to have pushed a majority of birds away from the natural hunting areas of traditional times and into the cultivated areas which are off-limits to most people. That along with warmer winters for many years now, seem to have diminished availability of ducks on the sounds and marshes where the average person can hunt.

I wish I felt more optimistic about this topic.


There are still opportunities on the rivers and
 
Jeff,

What Maine has in place seems to be very logical. I have no problem with conditional access unless Public funds are used for purchase. This example taken from a NJDEP Annual Report describes the purchase of 14 square miles of pinelands / wetlands that can now only be deer hunted for a select few. No hunting for ducks or small game and no trapping.

"Cranberry-bog restoration: Ensuring the preservation of environmentally sensitive wetlands, the DEP reached a settlement agreement requiring A.R. DeMarco Enterprises Inc. to restore 22 acres of Burlington County wetlands unlawfully converted to cranberry bogs in 1998 and to pay a $400,000 fine for long-standing violations of New Jersey's Freshwater Wetlands Protection Act. DeMarco Enterprises later sold the 14-square mile property to the New Jersey Conservation Foundation for $12 million. The DEP contributed $3.5 million from the State Land Acquisition Fund toward the purchase and preservation and retains a 40-percent interest in the property. It is one of the single largest private land acquisitions in New Jersey history"
 
Bob Reitmeyer said:
Jeff,

What Maine has in place seems to be very logical. I have no problem with conditional access unless Public funds are used for purchase. This example taken from a NJDEP Annual Report describes the purchase of 14 square miles of pinelands / wetlands that can now only be deer hunted for a select few. No hunting for ducks or small game and no trapping.

"Cranberry-bog restoration: Ensuring the preservation of environmentally sensitive wetlands, the DEP reached a settlement agreement requiring A.R. DeMarco Enterprises Inc. to restore 22 acres of Burlington County wetlands unlawfully converted to cranberry bogs in 1998 and to pay a $400,000 fine for long-standing violations of New Jersey's Freshwater Wetlands Protection Act. DeMarco Enterprises later sold the 14-square mile property to the New Jersey Conservation Foundation for $12 million. The DEP contributed $3.5 million from the State Land Acquisition Fund toward the purchase and preservation and retains a 40-percent interest in the property. It is one of the single largest private land acquisitions in New Jersey history"
Click to expand...

Yeah, that one sounds iffy. Deals associated with environmental damage settlements are a can of worms. Here, I think people would view having state land access funds be used to acquire a site with a major environmental violation that does not allow public access very unfavorably. At least I hope so.

There is an argument to be made for private conservation that prevents development of important habitat even if its behind a locked gate. Public funds should not be used for such deals.

Maine still has relatively few gated hunting preserves, but there are several long-standing sporting camps or fishing clubs with gated access, in some case to quite large tracts. I don't see state funds ever being used for conservation there, even though the habitat values for brook trout in several of them are probably the highest in the state.
 
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