Hybrid- bag limit question
- Thread starter TA Smith
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Capt Rich Geminski
Well-known member
Congress has to talk about it...
Will, there was only one federal warden in NJ that would bust your stones about that, but I don't think she's around anymore. Our local guy in Cumberland county would never give you a hard time over that. I think the thing with black/mallard hybrids is, you have to know more than the warden as far as how to identify those traits. I shot a pair one year because I saw a faint white line above and below the speculum on one of them. It was very hard to see in hand unless you really move it around. That one was a hen, and the other was a drake, which I thought was a black duck when I shot it-then back at the shack, I saw some green on his crown, and realized I had a pair of hybrids and could have shot another black duck. But that's unusual. It seems like there will be a few years when a few are shot, then many years when none are.
Craig F
Well-known member
I shot one of two blacks a week or so ago that probably would have passed as a hybrid based on the CT regulations, (faint white banding on the leading edge of the speculum, much lighter in color overall than the other pure black I shot) I decided to not shoot a third. Unless it's a very obvious hybrid (green head on a black duck body or vice-versa) I usually just stop at two.
Here's the drake
View attachment hybrid black.jpg
And here's the hen
View attachment hybrid hen.jpg
So either way, I was fine, as the limit was one until this year.
View attachment hybrid black.jpg
And here's the hen
View attachment hybrid hen.jpg
So either way, I was fine, as the limit was one until this year.
jode hillman
Well-known member
I have it straight from the NJ enforcement's mouth, they are counting it as whatever it resembles more. It better look a lot like a Mallard or your going to get written. I could expound at length the speculum and feather characteristics of a hybrid, but long story short is the wardens don't want to hear that.
Mallard drake
View attachment IMG_8357.JPGView attachment IMG_8345.JPG
Mallard drake
View attachment IMG_8357.JPGView attachment IMG_8345.JPG
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Jeff Reardon
Well-known member
This may vary state to state, and may depend on how well your local warden or CO knows his duck ID.
In Maine, we tend to a see a lot of hybrids in the late season on the salt. Our general rule is that if we have any doubt whatsoever, we count it as a black duck. Better safe than sorry.
We've twice been checked at the end of the day and had the game warden tell us we could have been less selective. That's the side of the law I want to be on . . . .
Up here, the state wardens say that hybrids count as neither black ducks nor mallards. I've heard on here many times that things are different in other states.
In Maine, we tend to a see a lot of hybrids in the late season on the salt. Our general rule is that if we have any doubt whatsoever, we count it as a black duck. Better safe than sorry.
We've twice been checked at the end of the day and had the game warden tell us we could have been less selective. That's the side of the law I want to be on . . . .
Up here, the state wardens say that hybrids count as neither black ducks nor mallards. I've heard on here many times that things are different in other states.
Will M
Active member
I'm with you craig and jeff. It needs to be very obvious that it's a hybrid before I shoot another one. A faint white line isn't enough for me. Needs to have multiple characteristics of a hybrid like a white line and green head/rump. Killed a black duck second day of coastal zone with obvious green in the head but no white over the speculum so I stayed at 2 black ducks for the day.
Will M
Active member
Tod
Not sure if you’re busting my chops or not. The Federal decision has always been that it counts as the least restrictive limit. But it comes down to ID by the CO. But black/mallard hybrids are counted as mallards in the bag under Federal regulations.
Not sure if you’re busting my chops or not. The Federal decision has always been that it counts as the least restrictive limit. But it comes down to ID by the CO. But black/mallard hybrids are counted as mallards in the bag under Federal regulations.
jode hillman
Well-known member
I was told this would be counted as a Black duck despite orange bill, lighter overall coloration and slight white in front of speculum. I didn't shoot it, but thought it made an interesting study. I was informed bill color does not come into the equation of determining species.
View attachment IMG_8460.JPG
View attachment IMG_8460.JPG
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jode hillman
Well-known member
Will M said:
Will I'd say you made a good call not to shoot another. According to our State biologist( who advises the CO's) that would be a black duck unless there is other more definitive proof.
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Brad Bortner said:
Not busting your chops anymore...
.Seriously, I would like a statement that protected duck hunters a little better than just the random mishmash that individual COs come up with (which is ultimately what we deal with). What hybrids count as is problematic given that they appear to be blacks in the air and shooting an apparent black that ultimately counts as a mallard is a problem. Hybrids are said by COs to count as: 1) mallards, 2) specifically hen mallards, or 3) other. A problem exists when apparent blacks that turns out to be hybrids count as mallards.... you are OTL when you shoot a hybrid that looks like a black in the air when you have 4 mallards. What are you supposed to do, not shoot a black if you have a limit of mallards fearing the stealth hybrid? If hybrids count as hen mallards (as some COs do say) that is equally problematic, what happens when you have 2 hen mallards in the bag and you take an apparent black that becomes a hybrid in hand? I can identify all North American waterfowl as well as most anyone on the wing and in the hand and I'm used to knowing exactly what I shoot before I do (including hen vs. drake blacks). There is no way to identify hybrids on the wing, especially F1s. Now in CT we have an official statement on what is a hybrid, but not a statement on what they count as.
When you have a category of lower limit birds (hen mallards, mallards) that apparent blacks can become once they are determined as hybrids that leads to an issue. This is especially true when the main pool of ducks to shoot many days includes only mallards, blacks and hybrids. Having no consensus and official statement limits my enjoyment and puts me at risk on the rare days that I'm in that position.
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Jeff Reardon
Well-known member
tod osier said:Brad Bortner said:Tod
. . . . Blah Blah Blah Blah . . . . . (Snipped for brevity) [
When you have a category of lower limit birds (hen mallards, mallards) that apparent blacks can become once they are determined as hybrids that leads to an issue. This is especially true when the main pool of ducks to shoot many days includes only mallards, blacks and hybrids. Having no consensus and official statement limits my enjoyment and puts me at risk on the rare days that I'm in that position.
Just be glad that position is rare for you. Common here any time I hunt on the salt in southern Maine, which may be why Maine warden's take a fairly liberal view and count blacks ducks as "other duck" rather than mallard or hen mallard. I was not aware this conflicts with the Federal interpretation, but have never seen a federal warden up here even when I hunt on NWR lands. If Maine wardens were writing tickets to someone who had 4 mallards in the bag and shot a "black duck" that turned out to be a hybrid, that would be a pretty common offense.
I think that Tod has it right. It's kind of ridiculous. That's why I don't really worry about it. Judges have better things to do than hear a case about a black duck/mallard hybrid.And game wardens have better things to do than prosecute same. I disagree with you Jode, and have also discussed this with a local game warden in South Jersey, who laughed it off.