Killing Cripples Quickly and Humanely

I go back to my poultry raising days and make a cut just below the bottom side of the bill (where the jugular is). It makes a big mess, especially with geese, but it does get most of the blood out.

I had to do it to one today. We got two in the boat and they look stoned, I'm working on something else, and this goose wakes up and just beats me in the face with its wing and tries to run away inside the boat. I grabbed it and did the throat cut. Blood all over, but it ended quickly.
 
Capt Rich Geminski said:
Try shooting them in the peeper, not the pooper.
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I thought I was the only one in this thread who "just shoots them again...but in the head." lol

I shoot bismuth, no more steel. Yesterday, buddy and I shot two brant. Mine, dead on impact. His took another 2 shoots with steel (which is what he was shooting). For the extra $40 a case I have no desire to chase cripples.
 

When my cousin and I were youngsters in the 1950's, my uncle Frank took use to butcher shops, and slaughter houses. His aim was to educate us as to where meat market food came from, and how it was done. Chickens, rabbits and other critters my grandparents raised. I saw and helped them get on the table.

When we began to hunt, we tried to be as good and humane hunters as possible. Sometimes it happens, other times it does not. We remember the times it does not.


To not let youngsters see what happens sometimes so that they have food to eat, is a attempt to sugarcoat something that cannot be sugarcoated.

We are responsible for our actions, and are far from perfect, that needs to be taught as well. Then it is up to the individual to decide if they can live with the good, and the not so good that happens. There is no one perfect solution.

As hunters/mentors when we take youngsters and new hunters out. We pray that all goes well, and that we have done our best to prepare them in all ways of a responsible hunter.



my 2 cents
 
Capt Rich Geminski said:
I use #7 steel trap loads for shooting cripples. Works well, lots of shot, head shoot them.
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I'll keep some steel in the pocket going forward for that. Most of my steel I have now is reserved for dire situations...if I for some reason can't get bismuth. I figure it's better than throwing rocks at ducks.
 
I used #6 steel dove loads for cripple swatters with great results.
 
I'll agree with Jay and say that the bismuth is nice, except the pellets shatter inside the birds when they hit bone. That being said, I bought a "case" of 200 boss shells (2-3/4" 3/5 combo). Paid more than I'm used to for shells, though they are "reasonable" in this day and age. I'd say I'm crippling significantly less ducks in the first shot, and the follow up shots with the same shells drop them quick. I was hesitant on the 2-3/4", I actually ordered them by accident, but I've been dropping even the tough little old squaw at 40-50 yards with single shots with the boss shells. Never could do that with steel.
 
I switched to the copper plated bismuth last season, shooting exclusively 20 gauge #4s and I found that I cripple far less birds than with steel. Is it worth the massive upcharge? I'll leave that up to the end user.

I'll have to pay closer attention to the bismuth shattering on bone contact, I haven't noticed that myself.
 
I've found pieces of the bismuth in random chunks. Like if you smashed the shot with a hammer. I assume it's from contact with bone, but maybe breaking apart in the barrel too. Outside of my realm
 
Nick Zito said:
I've found pieces of the bismuth in random chunks. Like if you smashed the shot with a hammer. I assume it's from contact with bone, but maybe breaking apart in the barrel too. Outside of my realm
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It may well break up on impacting bone, but I haven't looked close enough in a dead bird to be sure. It definitely breaks up some leaving the barrel, I've seen it on pattern paper and in the water when shooting at birds down low. If you watch for it you'll see what looks like dust hitting the water, or spatter/tiny holes on the paper.

The tendency to shatter was one of the reasons Bismuth didn't take off in the mid-90's, supposedly the current alloy is somewhat malleable. The Boss shot will shatter if you hit it with a hammer, but not as easily as I recall the early Bismuth shot doing.

I'm trying the Boss shells a little this year, so far I give it an OK. Had good luck with 28 gauge #7 on grouse. Haven't shot enough ducks with the 12 gauge 3", #4's yet to be sure either way.

For me the best ever shot was the discontinued Remington HD, followed by Hevi-Shot which is now my go-to. The two closely related Tungsten based shot types are IMO better than lead ever was and I wouldn't switch back to lead if it became legal. Very few cripples to deal with, W alloys are dense enough to penetrate heavy feathers on the body and kill the birds with body shots. Agreed, however, that one pellet of any kind in the head is worth several in the body.
 
A bunch of sick bastards...lol. this post brought back memories. I was hunting brant with a childhood friend, (we grew up together since 5 years old). when one came in and he shot it. So we retrieved the Brant and it was still alive, so I did the, hold the head swing the body ring the neck. Any way the head popped off in my hand, Being humane I said to my friend look at this. He became ill, unloaded his gun and wanted to go home, so we did, he never hunted again. I was 17 at the time, and now Im 67 and I can remember it like yesterday.
 
John Van Houten said:
A bunch of sick bastards...lol. this post brought back memories. I was hunting brant with a childhood friend, (we grew up together since 5 years old). when one came in and he shot it. So we retrieved the Brant and it was still alive, so I did the, hold the head swing the body ring the neck. Any way the head popped off in my hand, Being humane I said to my friend look at this. He became ill, unloaded his gun and wanted to go home, so we did, he never hunted again. I was 17 at the time, and now Im 67 and I can remember it like yesterday.
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That will always happen sooner or later with the windmill method, haha! One of the first times I took my daughters duck hunting (they were about 7 and 9 at the time) I did that and accidently popped off a gadwall's head right in front of them, they weren't too badly shocked but they will still bring it up years later. Making memories I suppose.....
 
SJ Fairbank said:
Nick Zito said:
I've found pieces of the bismuth in random chunks. Like if you smashed the shot with a hammer. I assume it's from contact with bone, but maybe breaking apart in the barrel too. Outside of my realm
Click to expand...

It may well break up on impacting bone, but I haven't looked close enough in a dead bird to be sure. It definitely breaks up some leaving the barrel, I've seen it on pattern paper and in the water when shooting at birds down low. If you watch for it you'll see what looks like dust hitting the water, or spatter/tiny holes on the paper.

The tendency to shatter was one of the reasons Bismuth didn't take off in the mid-90's, supposedly the current alloy is somewhat malleable. The Boss shot will shatter if you hit it with a hammer, but not as easily as I recall the early Bismuth shot doing.

I'm trying the Boss shells a little this year, so far I give it an OK. Had good luck with 28 gauge #7 on grouse. Haven't shot enough ducks with the 12 gauge 3", #4's yet to be sure either way.

For me the best ever shot was the discontinued Remington HD, followed by Hevi-Shot which is now my go-to. The two closely related Tungsten based shot types are IMO better than lead ever was and I wouldn't switch back to lead if it became legal. Very few cripples to deal with, W alloys are dense enough to penetrate heavy feathers on the body and kill the birds with body shots. Agreed, however, that one pellet of any kind in the head is worth several in the body.
Click to expand...

I think the seemingly more cost effectiveness of a lot of this shot will lead to steel being obsolete or just really unpopular. I wasn't a believer until I absolutely stoned-dead a black duck that was decoying on the far end of our spread. As anyone knows who hunts black ducks, they tend to do that. We walked it out to get the bird and it was 40 yds if not more. #5 bismuth, 3", from a 12ga with an IM choke. Keep in mind, #5 was the shot size. That lethality at that distance with that shot size is just impressive. I originally started with #3 bismuth and the damage was just too much on ducks inside 40 yds. I now keep them for geese like snows and canadas.

Tungsten and bismuth will eventually replace the majority of steel shot being sold. Steel just stinks. It's too fast, beats the daylights out of thin wall choke systems like Beretta, and doesn't kill birds.
 
I think the seemingly more cost effectiveness of a lot of this shot will lead to steel being obsolete or just really unpopular. I wasn't a believer until I absolutely stoned-dead a black duck that was decoying on the far end of our spread. As anyone knows who hunts black ducks, they tend to do that. We walked it out to get the bird and it was 40 yds if not more. #5 bismuth, 3", from a 12ga with an IM choke. Keep in mind, #5 was the shot size. That lethality at that distance with that shot size is just impressive. I originally started with #3 bismuth and the damage was just too much on ducks inside 40 yds. I now keep them for geese like snows and canadas.
Tungsten and bismuth will eventually replace the majority of steel shot being sold. Steel just stinks. It's too fast, beats the daylights out of thin wall choke systems like Beretta, and doesn't kill birds.
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I agree, the sooner hunters move away from steel the better, the cripple losses shouldn't be tolerated. Unfortunately, no shot type can make up for poor shooting, a little off season practice wouldn't hurt many weekend warriors either.
 
Dani said:
tod osier said:
For me it just seems to take too long and there is always something to do right then (manage dog, get boat situated, etc...) when I can't be sitting there dealing with snuffing out the bird. Standard technique tho and not bloody and there definitely are bashed brain birds that refuse to shut down.

Thoracic compression.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/326487824_Rapid_cardiac_compression_An_effective_method_of_avian_euthanasia
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Tod, I got to where I've learned to hold onto the bird for the most part and handle the dog or do whatever I need to. However, I know that I am in the south where water is warmer, the boats I use smaller in protected waters and generally the birds I see are smaller so my little hands can deal with them for the most part while doing what I need to.

Finally got the Finisher video to play for me.....that's essentially what we do with Alligators once we have them on the edge of the boat. Use a knife or chisel and sever the spinal column and then a coat hanger right through the brain stem hole in the skull. No gator is allowed on the boat until both of those things are done.
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You had it right.. then you kept typing... NO GATOR IS ALLOWED IN THE BOAT!!!!!!!!!!!! no need to go on
 
Jay K said:
Capt Rich Geminski said:
Try shooting them in the peeper, not the pooper.
Click to expand...

I thought I was the only one in this thread who "just shoots them again...but in the head." lol

I shoot bismuth, no more steel. Yesterday, buddy and I shot two brant. Mine, dead on impact. His took another 2 shoots with steel (which is what he was shooting). For the extra $40 a case I have no desire to chase cripples.
Click to expand...

Yep.. I normally shoot #6 Tungsten ( HW13).. or #5 bismuth. I have more clean kills... and fewer shots. Actually doesn't doesn't cost more in the end.
 
Jeff- a cheap pair of pliers, right behind the eyes, crush the skull. This works well and you don't have to bite it.


As far as shot. I agree with using the best you can afford. I'm old enough to have gone from lead to steel everywhere(now non-toxic). I have always watched birds fly away with feathers coming out with steel, very rare with the better non-toxic. I believe that every duck that flies off after getting hit dies from it, at least most of them do. I've used much of the available non-toxic over the last 20-25 years that is available retail. Remington Wingmaster HD was the best-6's were good for everything including geese, followed by Winchester Extended Range HD, Kent Tungsten Matrix further behind, and then the bismuth loads. I used the Rio bismuth for a couple of years and thought that was as good as any bismuth load I had used. I won't say I never lose a duck shooting this stuff because I do, but that is usually due to it falling in a place I never should have shot it with or without dog.

If you are shooting ducks close in, say 10-20 yards average, they are trying to land, steel is fine, kills great. Just don't get a ton of that in the Del Bay marsh except GWT. Black ducks, 25-40 is more common(by the time you get your gun up). That has as much to do with the terrain and the tides as anything. The water level is going to change if you hunt for more than two hours, and you have to take what you get on the day you're going, and work around the water levels, which means hunting where you can. Which isn't always where the ducks really want to be.

This year, you got what you could find. I bought some new Federal stuff with a blend of steel and tungsten. I've taken one shot, killed a teal, so I have no idea how good it is. But hopefully will find out in the next few weeks!
 
I've had two scotch doubles this week shooting #4 bismuth out of my 20 gauge so that's at least one way to make it more efficient!

Also folded a snow goose at 45 yards with the 20 the other day too, the boss stuff continues to impress me.
 
You had it right.. then you kept typing... NO GATOR IS ALLOWED IN THE BOAT!!!!!!!!!!!! no need to go on
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Chicken......skeered of a dead, brain scrambled gator [;)]
 
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