Long line guys who are keeping decoys attached

BillS

BillS

Well-known member
and folding into the bags(steve, others????) are you still using Lobster clips or are you tying droppers right to the mainline. If tying how are you keeping the droppers from moving, certain knot? little brass stoppers? or something else? I haven't been hunting out of my boat but I tried it with a bag of my decoys I bring along and it does work slick.

thanks
 
Yes, we definitely use the lobster clips. This is some info I've posted before and use in our seminars as well as our hunting. #7 addresses your questions.
Holler with any more questions.
Lou

Layout-Set ups & Rigging
Here's the set up we use. There are a few things to note:
1. We use 200-250 decoys but you can typically do a good job getting started with about 4-6 dozen. I'd go with BlueBills & Cans as my first purchase......along with at least ONE Goldeneye Drake and at least ONE Buffy Drake. One of each is truly "magic".
2. Notice that I've shown the "shore". This is critical if you want Buffy & GE. We did a lot of work for 3 months with the USFWS and this is what we observed 100% of the time. The Buffy were always on the "shore side" of the rig of Bluebills & Redheads and the Goldeneye were always on the "lake side" of the Bluebill & Redhead. Why........I don't know but I know that's the way they are. Both BFY & GE will come right down the center of the rig and then swing to "their own", giving you a nice coming in shot and a crossing shot.
3. Also, be aware that these divers come in Low to the Deck and will almost always "lift" up and you'll think they are flaring. What they're doing is checking for landing zone. If you let them, they will come in, lift up and then drop right into the rig.
4. Definitely use a call for divers. It will work wonders and it's the only way to draw them in to you if it's foggy.
5. Note that we have open spaces around the boat and behind it. These are passage zones for the tender boat so the tender can come in on either side of the layout and escape whichever way is necessary out the back.
6. We use a "blocker" line of big scoters and eiders. We get these birds into Lake St. Clair so it makes sense to use them but they are also there to "tell" the birds to "drop down". It's kind of the "end of the line".
7. We use 125' mother lines (1/4” Black, New England Line) with heavy duty carabeener clips on the end with the upwind clipped to an 8 lb. mushroom and the downwind clipped to a sash weight. We put 12-14 decoys on a mother line, clipped to loops in the line. We will often clip two lines together. The decoys have a 3' dropper of 1/8" military parachute chord. Tie a bowline to the deke and a bowline to the 5" lobster line clip and the clip goes onto the loop in the mother line. This keeps the mother line about 3' below the surface and away from you prop. Prop caught in a mother line will kill you.
If you are hunting deep water, merely keep "deep extender lines" (Loop on end and carabeener the other end) available to merely clip on when needed.
I never use single dekes. We lost a lot of single rigged dekes in a storm. It was so dark at 1pm in the afternoon that we had to use a spotlight to find the dekes. Mother lines were easy to find but the individual dekes were lost to the storm (all hand painted E. Allens)
8. We put all our decoys (still rigged) into 55 Gal. Plastic Drums with holes drilled in bottom for drainage and 2 fold down, carriage handles (home depot) riveted onto the drum. When retrieving, we set the sash weight into the bottom (still clipped to mother line) and start feeding all the decoys down into the drum. You don’t have to worry much about order.......it takes care of itself for the most part. When you get to the end of the line, remove the upwind 8# mushroom anchor, place the anchor in a milk crate with other anchors and clip the carabeener to the handle. Voila.
When setting decoys, unclip the carabeener and clip on the mushroom anchor and drop at the uppermost, upwind end for the set. As you drift down, you can set the dekes. As you remove the dekes from the drum..........do NOT grab the decoys and pull them from the drum. Grab ONLY the mother line...and the decoys will follow and not get tangled. If you lift the decoys out, they will not be in sequence and you will tangle. When you’ve set the entire rig, hold the sash weight for a bit to stretch the mother line (it will also right any decoys that are upside down) and then drop the weight.
Now, move upwind again to set the next line..............etc.
9. Don't set your rig in the dark. That's a sure way to get tangled in your mother lines and then you're in big trouble.....it can kill you. Divers move all day long. Wait to see where they want to be and then set up there or at least "pre scout" and set up as early as you have light to safely set the rig.
10. Carry a true Ship to Shore radio in every boat and have a backup if necessary. The coast guard doesn't like cell phones though they are better than nothing. A ship to shore radio can be triangulated by the Coast Guard and they can find you in an instant and that matter of minutes can be the difference between life and death.
11. Use a large Danforth anchor for your upwind boat anchor and a mushroom or small navy anchor as your downwind anchor. The Danforth will keep your layout boat in the proper place in the rig. The smaller downwind anchor can be pulled in and reset to adjust to a changing wind.
12. Be safe out there.....most duck hunters (especially layout shooters) don't realize how close to dying we are out there all the time. We're in a harsh environment and at a harsh time of year. Nature is unforgiving.......be safe.

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Bill,

Most of my decoys haven't been off my main lines in several years and then only to set up a line for a specific situation. I use long line clips so I can move decoys from line to line or move them on the main line to get a specific "look" such as when rigging GEs in family type groups.

I use the "lawn and leaf" bags that you can buy at the hardware store or Home Depot for less than $20. The newer Toro bags have become a favorite and will hold 2 dozen life size or a dozen magnum Toledos. After you deploy collapse the bag and store it out of the way.

You won't believe how easy it is to put out or pick up.
 
Great reply Lou and thanks.

I'm thinking about using a gang rig for the first time pretty soon. My question is how do you keep the mother line deep enough for a dog to swim through without getting tangled. I will be hunting from a boat tied along shore or from a ground blind.

Thanks,

Harry
 
Make your droppers long enough for the dog and use line that sinks. I use 1/4" diamond braid nylon long line died olive color for the long line and 1/8 or 3/16 for my droppers. My droppers are cut 40" before knots and I add a 5" long line clip. I hunt with a long legged Chessie who has never been tangled in the lines. In fact the droppers are long enough that I can motor through the spread with out hitting the mother line. If you don't use a dog you could make the droppers considerably shorter.
 
We used the lobster clips for the first few years and now have switched to two methods with two different types of line. First is with "swordfish" line. I got two 1000 ft roles of this from Bill Wasson few years back. Make an overhand loop and then take your dropper and tie a bowline onto that. It will keep the decoy from moving and will never pull apart. We then took electrical tape and wound the ENTIRE length of the long line and included the droppers. Yes, it is tedious and VERY time consuming, but you won't get a tangle.

Secondly, we took 5/8" heavy nylon (black) and then took a tire patch tool, heat it with a torch and then burn through the long line. Take a dropper and pull through the hole. Tie a double overhand knot for a stopper, and then whatever length you want to the decoy. Again, you will never have a tangle with this method. I can set out 80 decoys in 15 minutes and be hunting. Very efficient.

Best,
Steve
 
I built two boxes that I could carry in my dory or canoe. I was mostly hunting along the edges of a river (shallow) & set both boxes up so I could wrap the ground line around the upper edge of the box with the blocks on about 4' droppers. I used lobster pot clips for a while but found they hung up, so I just opened the lay of the ground line & used a simple overhand knot at ground line end.

All line was black tarred nylon I picked up at a commercial fisherman supply store in New Bedford MA. The ground line was weighted with the type of lead weight that holds down the bottom line on a gill net.

These decoys (about 20 per box) deployed & picked up fast. The last time I used this rig years ago my Boykin hung up on a decoy and was getting ready to drown before I got to her.

My dogs aren't as steady as they could be. I tie them in the boat or blind. They wear collars with a quick release. When I need to send them for a duck they go out without a collar. In early season I put on a neupreme vest after they get wet but send them out "clean".
 
I'm running Bass Pro Shops long lines with clips and stops preinstalled. I use NO dropper and it works very slick. I keep everything in slotted bags prerigged. THIS WILL NOT WORK WITH A DOG!!!!! VERY DANGEROUS!!!!!! When I add a dog I will probably go to lobster clips with droppers and not keep them on the mother line. Or, make very stiff lines, such as someone said about wrapping with electrical tape. Wrapping with tape at home is MUCH more enjoyable than fixing a cluster of a tangle in 20 degree howling wind and splashing waves.

I've used large plastic storage bins and stacked the dekes in rows like firewood going back and forth and it works well on deployment but hard to restack well in the boat. Diane's gunnel bags work well for divers, 2-4 per pocket depending on decoy size. I can put 1 dozen BB's and 1 dozen buffies in ONE bag and one dozen brant in the other bag.

Best wishes,
Gene
 
Bill,

I keep my long lines attached and no longer use clips on the drops. Tying the drops to the main line works much better for me. The main line in the same "Bill Wasson Swordfish line" that Dr.Steve uses. Drops are surplus OD nylon cord purchase from the "Rope Dope Guy". Rigs are kept in collapsible leaf barrels.

View attachment LONGLINE KNOTS.jpg


View attachment cans2.jpg

When hunting from my 14-ft boat I transfer the lines over to the "pop-up" cubical decoy bags. They are slightly less forgiving tangle wise but much nicer to handle in a small boat. If you need weight to help sink the main line instead of using the clips, I would use small egg sinkers tied individually next to the knots. They are very tangle resistant and inexpensive. I used these when I mistakenly bought some main line that didn't sink well at all. Added tips: My main line ends at clips spaced roughly 1/2 the distance between decoys allowing me to clip two together for a 200-ft line or allows me to clip on the best length anchor line. In shallow non tidal water I can clip directly to the anchor. Everything is kept as flexible as possible. Also if anchoring in waves having a piece of bungy cord between the anchor and anchor line helps hold bottom by removing the vertical shock load.

Best,
Scott

View attachment LONGLINE KNOTS.jpg
View attachment cans2.jpg
 
Hi Bill,
Good advice so far as always! I have almost the same setup as Pete McMiller describes. I use the TORO bags from home depot and can put 2 lines in each. I use Doctari tarred longlines - 36" droppers and extra big clips, with no knots in the mainline. The clips hold plenty tight. 18" drops are much more tangle free compared to 36", but keeping the whole works together still beats attaching/removing each decoy each time.
I use old window sash weights (5 LB). They are torpedo shaped, smooth, and have a loop built in for attaching to end of lines.

I also have a bag of Texas rigged loose decoys that I put in various spots or ponds behind my boat. The Texas rig setup is very convenient, and I prefer it over the traditional wrapping the cord/weight around the decoy - 10X FASTER to put out. I made mine with .095" weed eater line and GHG crimps.

good luck,
Dave
 
I am hunting situations more like GaryRI, and not hunting big spreads of divers on a lake. I am hunting goose decoys on a river with longlines. My main lines are tarred cotton, the drops are ~3' braided nylon with lobster pot clips. Main lines are tied to 10 lbs. boat anchors. I carry the boat anchors and coiled up main lines in 5 gallong buckets. I hook the clips on the main lines at what ever spacing I need. I like to rig the decoys on shore and drag the lines and decoys out in the river (if the river bank allows me to do this). To pick-up I pull the anchors up and drag the lines and decoys back to shore and unhook the decoys as I pull them up on shore. I do not anchor the downstream end of my lines, but have used anchors on both ends on the main line when I have run lines across the current.
 
Bill,

I still use clips as well. This year on one hunt in the ice, my partner and I were both out on retrieves and by the time we got back, the 8 dozen decoys that were nicely laid out were now in a nice 2 pod system. With the ice pushing them closer to shore. There was simply no way we could straighten them out easily out on the water. 1 pod was loaded in one skiff, the other in my skiff. Once on shore, they all got dumped into the back of the truck. Once at my house, ever decoy was taken off the lines (with the clips) and tossed to the side. Then the anchors were dropped (clipped on) and then the lines were very easy to straighten out. My partner then took his decoys home, and I was able to load mine back on the line.

Seems about every 2-3 years or so I have a hunt like this and it reminds me why I like the clips. In between, I have often thought about negating the clips and doing a "bite on a line" like Scott diagramed so nicely (but he forgot the guy with a pot on his head!!) thinking this would reduce cost and less things to get caught on/tangled. I suppose I could just untie the bite, but I think the clips are easier.

I know you hunt with a dog, so make sure you have a long enough dropper, but I have found more than once that the longer the dropper, the more they tangle. Read Quarne's comments about his droppers of 36", I personally could never use ones that long. I find 18-24" plenty for MY DOG which is a medium sized yellow lab which means he is shorter than some pony's I have seen.
 
Bill-

I use the 120# tarred mainline and keep mine attached all the time. I took 150' of line and threaded 12 4/0 swivels on it. I then tied overhand knots starting at 30' <1" apart w/ the swivel in the middle. Then I'd go 8' (38') and tie another pair of knots with the swivel in the middle, then 8' and another....etc. until I do all 12.

longline.jpg


I then use 400ln mono w/ crimps for my droppers.

There's a longline clip on each end of the 150' to attach the weights which are kept in a postal bin in the boat.

As long as I don't flip the bags upside down or shake them up to much I never have trouble. After a really rough day I tend to take the lines out and straighten them out to avoid a lot of yelling at o dark thirty!

-D
 
My partner does the same as Dave only uses small nylon wire ties. A little tough on the fingers without gloves but they work great
 
Sash cord weights are good cheap anchors for ends. Cheap/I found a bunch at the town dump. Some kind of iron so no harm if they get lost.
 
for all the replies guys.

I have been refining my long line setup every year its seems. Started way back with parachute cord, lobster clips and electrical cord wraps then to tarred #120 and hose reel. Last year I switched to a bucket and I thought that was the end all. That was until I read that post a few months back by steve keeping the decoy droppers attached and folding the line into 12 pocket bags. Now after trying it I am switching all mine lines over to that method as soon as my new bags arrive. Using all cork and wood decoys all my lines are setup for 12 decoys anyway. The thought I had regarding the clips was I could see the potential for clips to hang up, but I also need to take the decoys off for off season storage. Seems like enough of you guys keep them on that I will try it and see what happens, it will be much easier for storing.

Thanks again.
 
Bill and anyone else,

Call Bob Metrich @ Decoy Rigs in Whiting, Indiana and ask him to send you some samples of his 1/4" diamond braid long line. It is very stiff line and is the reason I almost never get tangles. From what I have seen of others who use 120 tarred, Bob's is much better. I have at least 10 or 12 long lines - all 125 ft. and they are all diamond braid nylon and they all get dumped into the barrels with decoys attached. The bonus is, it's already dyed so no mess.

Bob's phone number is (219) 659-8371

Oh yeah, before anyone asks............Bob does not have a web site but his email is decoyrigs@comcast.net
 
Hey Eric,
I have had a couple of nice "2 pod systems" this season as well! Very Diplomatic. Something about the current/wind/seaweed accumulation combined to merge the lines. The lobster clips definitely make it easier to return the system to its normal operating mode - at home.
In the off-season I may very well shorten my lines to 18-24" and may be able to add a decoy or two to the lines.

Cheers,

Dave
 
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